User, when did you realise that higher education is a scam and most university degrees are worthless?

The problem isn't university as an institution. The problem is that either university failed you, or you failed university. It's very clear that's the case if you graduated and still have the mindset of "need make money".

The problem is still believing all that matters in life is money. If you had paid attention while you were pursuing higher education, you'd have realized there is much more to life, and a pursuit of material gain is a waste of said life.

Molecular biology as a whole is saturated as fuck. Both in academia and industry. This is why I made this post. People make fun of gender studies and liberal arts but the life sciences are the most egregious example of the uselessness of university. Each year, universities churn out millions of biological researchers which are not needed

Dude. This is not about being rich. This is not about making six figures. But I am in my mid 30s and currently make 30k in a urban area.

I earn more than average with only my bachelors, which will pay for my final plan to setup my own bussiness.

So even though I memed uni cuz it made my mom happy, it turned out quite well.

Applied Physics degree holder here. I got a sea of places to work. Shit is cashmoney. I can do physocs work, programming and some electrical. I make a good 100k a year and I am only employed 3/4th of a year.

Physic is one of the few useful degrees in addition to medicine, CS, maths and engineering.

2020 election among whites by education via @CNN poll:

Whites with a college degree:
Biden 62%
Trump 35%

Whites without a college degree:
Trump 63%
Biden 33%

nice narrative you got going on there op

Realized it a few months ago during my 5th year of law. In a few months, I will have a very high degree however, it's completely useless. Law is like a box of chocolate in which you can find only a few delicious chocolates and all the rest are those liquor shits everybody throws in the bin.

Quite happy with my business studies that brought me a job as BI engineer

i am in the same boat user. i am at the dead end now, being told my job ends in june with no chance of renewal. i have applied at many jobs some academic some industry. 0 responses. i am hoping the lockdown in my city ends before that so i can buy a gun.

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So what? I am white with a college degree and I will indeed vote for Biden.

I feel you dude. Fucking life sciences.

> 4 years of undergrad to learn marketable skills
> 5+ years of PhD to learn or develop marketable skills
> About 10 years in academia and still haven’t learned any useful skills
> Get postdoc instead of breaking this cycle

The problem isn’t your uni, your major or the PhD process. It’s that in a decade you somehow haven’t figured out that you have to learn skills that will make you employable no matter what you are majoring in.

Ffs, I have friends with traditionally useless majors that pivoted, learned some new skills (e.g. coding, project management) and are now making 6 figure in consulting or tech.

Best of luck but don’t spend another decade with the mindset that “degree = job” or you will be in the same situation

nah, 75K a year is still enough to be p happy, do gender studies if you want

trade-schools.net/articles/gender-studies-jobs

That's the problem. Nobody at my university had an idea what makes someone employable. Most of the professors were completely focused on academia and focused on these skills. The issue is that the skills useful in academic research are not useful in real life. This is the whole issue: university does not prepare for real life and is thus useless.

>Ffs, I have friends with traditionally useless majors that pivoted, learned some new skills (e.g. coding, project management) and are now making 6 figure in consulting or tech.

So what. They got their job because of their new skills, not because of their university degree. If they didn't go to university and just learned to code (or went into CS for the start) they would be better off.

bump

Bachelor prepares you for a job but all a PhD does is help your professor publish. So yes, unless your future career benefits your professor or uni (e.g. you want to become a prof), the uni will not prepare you since they have no incentive. This is really obvious to most people early on in their PhDs and so as a response most people learn marketable skills along the way. So yes of course the uni doesn’t prepare you for real life. This isn’t high school dude. You have to fend for yourself. The Deans aren’t gonna check in on you and make you sure you can get a job. They assume that since you have a brain you have enough common sense to figure this out yourself. It’s not fucked, it’s the real world. People aren’t gonna hold your hand.

Also, they got their jobs because of their skills AND their degree. If you still haven’t figured this out, like 50% of getting high paying jobs is signaling. So having a PhD carries enough weight that McKinsey might hire you even if you have a degree in something useless like history. Also, some key software roles specifically look for people with PhD backgrounds no matter what it is, like say in the field of data science.

Does this mean ALL jobs require a degree? Of course not. However, the PhD still opens up a lot of doors and make it significantly easier to transition to a 6 figure job than if you didn’t have it

Where do you live, user? Location can make a world of difference between comfortable living and scraping by

Good self realization, still hope for you

> t. clueless retard

Everything I just said is true.

You can be salty or you can be better. Your choice.

>Bachelor prepares you for a job

That might be true for e.g. CS. But in the life sciences, it means mostly grunt work as a technical assistant. That's why everybody is told that a PhD opens up a lot of doors which it does for a few select people. The issue is simply that there are many more biologists of any skills level than there are jobs. Still, this particular degree is pushed by universities with false promises of employability because they want to keep their prestigious research going. That makes it by definition a scam.

>So yes, unless your future career benefits your professor or uni (e.g. you want to become a prof), the uni will not prepare you since they have no incentive.

The uni has an incentive not to prepare you since underpaid PhD students and postdocs keep their research going. They trick people into these field not because they want to make money from tuition but for even more devious reasons.

>This is really obvious to most people early on in their PhDs and so as a response most people learn marketable skills along the way.

Define a marketable skill. A marketable skill does not help you when there are no jobs.

>So having a PhD carries enough weight that McKinsey might hire you even if you have a degree in something useless like history.

It is still extremely hard to get into McKinsey as a PhD holder. These people are simply exceptions and do not change the general issue that certain degrees are useless per se.

>Also, some key software roles specifically look for people with PhD backgrounds no matter what it is, like say in the field of data science.

The times when some coding experience, or some experience with machine learning, or even a data science bootcamp got you a job as an analyst is over. There are now a lot of people who want to go into data science who have a degree in data science, maths, statistics, or CS. So they are exclusively picked.

>Does this mean ALL jobs require a degree? Of course not. However, the PhD still opens up a lot of doors and make it significantly easier to transition to a 6 figure job than if you didn’t have it

It does. A PhD in CS or an engineering related field certainly opens door. In the life sciences, it doesn't, really. In fact, I would be perfectly fine to work in an entry level industry position for which a Bachelor would have been enough. Yet I am considered overqualified and too old. All that is left are PhD level positions or postdocs. And since the former are so rare compared to the number of graduates, what's left is the latter.

When watching the news. You see all these supposed highly educated people spout out their mindless opinions and they think because they have a degree in tomfuckery you should bow down and lick their ass. They're just a bunch of idiots overpaid shills regurgitating mindless dribble to pad their pockets with the fallout that they make. Anyone that takes these fools seriously deserves what they get.

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East coast urban area.

bump

you're a true moron.

the essence of Yas Forums

1. Yes a lot of the life sciences have careers that are grunt work, but this is still a job. More importantly, a BS is mostly a signaling degree anyway. You can pivot pretty easily as long as you can nail interviews. I don’t understand this mindset that “bio degree means only bio jobs are available”. Part of learning marketable skills is learning how to communicate your value outside of your field to others so you aren’t stuck looking for jobs in only one industry.

2. 100% true

3. Again, this “there are no jobs” fallacy is just being short-sighted about how you can apply what you’ve learned. See my point #1. Just cause the life sciences have shitty job prospects doesn’t mean you are stuck looking for work in only the life sciences. Hell, like 90% of PhDs I know are now doing jobs that have absolutely NOTHING to do with their grad research.

4. This is just not true at all from my experience but maybe there’s a huge fluctuation from how they recruit in different regions of the country. Besides, there are many consulting firms besides the big3 and big4, and boutique firms are particularly fond of PhDs for some reason. So even if you don’t get one of the famous firms, there’s a very realistic chance of pivoting to consulting, it’s not some pot of gold at the end of the rainbow deal

5. This one I know for a fact is just not true since I am in the field. You have to prepare yourself quite a bit, but the demand is so freaking high for people with quantitative skills AND CS people that even FANG is still actively recruiting people outside of stem majors.

that's because few people are intelligent enough for it

Again, this is not true. I have plenty of friends in the life sciences who have successfully stayed in the field, pivoted to something completely different and everything in between.

Again, this “all that’s left are PhD and postdocs” and this presupposition that “People that get a degree in X can only get a job in X” are both just plain wrong. This honestly just seems like a personal mental block, and I seriously urge you to reconsider this mindset if you want to get out of the situation you are in.

It will take a lot of work and you might have to put yourself through some course ra classes to learn new skills, but it is definitely doable to find a high paying job. It just isn’t handed to you or an easy thing to do. People are gonna pay you 6 figures so they want to make sure they are paying someone who will give them a decent ROI and that is good at working with other people.

>1. Yes a lot of the life sciences have careers that are grunt work, but this is still a job. More importantly, a BS is mostly a signaling degree anyway. You can pivot pretty easily as long as you can nail interviews. I don’t understand this mindset that “bio degree means only bio jobs are available”. Part of learning marketable skills is learning how to communicate your value outside of your field to others so you aren’t stuck looking for jobs in only one industry.

Biology is the worst STEM degree for finding work outside the field. Biologists have a much less detailed mathematical and statistical education than say physicists, CS majors or engineers. So when it comes to anything related to data analysis, biologists are by far the least preferable STEM graduates. Most biologists don't know how to code and those who do possess a skill which e.g. physics graduates have by default. Hell, even within data heavy fields of biology (e.g. genomics), people rather employ CS graduates with no biological background than biologists who can code. There is not much value coming from a life science degree except for the value which every degree confers (e.g. knows how to learn effectively, manage a project etc.). Tell me, what are the specific useful skills which a biologist possesses because (not despite) he is a biologist?

>3. Again, this “there are no jobs” fallacy is just being short-sighted about how you can apply what you’ve learned. See my point #1. Just cause the life sciences have shitty job prospects doesn’t mean you are stuck looking for work in only the life sciences. Hell, like 90% of PhDs I know are now doing jobs that have absolutely NOTHING to do with their grad research.

But are they doing jobs in line with their level of education? Jobs which they couldn't have gotten if they didn't go to university? Hell, I know more PhD level biologists who work in retail than I know PhD level biologists who make 6 figures.

>5. This one I know for a fact is just not true since I am in the field. You have to prepare yourself quite a bit, but the demand is so freaking high for people with quantitative skills AND CS people that even FANG is still actively recruiting people outside of stem majors.

Yes. What is required is getting equivalent knowledge to a graduate in CS or statistics. I know one person who got a data science job as a biologist and he was simply outstanding when it comes to mathematics and programming (and he regretted going into biology extremely). I on the other hand have analysed large scale genomic datasets for most of my PhD, am decent in Python and R, and didn't manage to get a single interview when it comes to data science positions in genomics.

Higher education isn't a scam, college loans are a scam.

>Again, this “all that’s left are PhD and postdocs” and this presupposition that “People that get a degree in X can only get a job in X” are both just plain wrong. This honestly just seems like a personal mental block, and I seriously urge you to reconsider this mindset if you want to get out of the situation you are in.

When I finished my PhD, I really wanted to get out of academia. I started applying to industry jobs about 9 months before my graduation and sent out a few hundred applications. In the end, I settled on a postdoc after being unemployed for three months because my savings were running thin.

1. Agreed about the general bio education, but you are missing the point. Most people that get “good” jobs get them despite their major (the only exception to this is CS). So yes CS people have it easier, but that’s not the point. The point is that regardless of how effective your uni was in giving you useful skills, you have to take it upon yourself to make sure you learn those skills. A related quote from a friend “Yes, the system failed you, but that doesn’t mean you have to fail yourself.” You have to take personal accountability to make sure you are prepared for the real world even if your uni decided to give you 16 semesters of interpretive dancing.

2. Yes the majority have jobs that are in line with their education and not retail or anything like that. None work retail, though you could argue a few have a job that they could have just gotten with a BS (but it’s still a >$60k a year job). It really is possible and not some pipe dream. And the majority of them have 6 figures, and the rest are in the $70-95k range.

>2. Yes the majority have jobs that are in line with their education and not retail or anything like that. None work retail, though you could argue a few have a job that they could have just gotten with a BS (but it’s still a >$60k a year job). It really is possible and not some pipe dream. And the majority of them have 6 figures, and the rest are in the $70-95k range.

So, what are their degrees?

No it really doesn’t require a grad level understanding of CS or stats. This is just totally off. So many people I know have gotten jobs in CS with just understanding the basics and doing a lot of pre work for the interview process.

If you didn’t even get an interview, the you likely have a poor resume that isn’t making a good first impression because the majority of recruiters/HR folks I know get a massive boner when they see PhD and python in the same resume.

This seems like a personal issue more so than a general statement about the industry.

And btw, many of the people I am talking about that transitioned were in the life sciences and humanities (which are arguably more useless) so it’s not like this is restricted to a select few STEM majors.

Haha. Don't be so soft, 2L. Us real lawyers will laugh at you.

Dang dude I’m sorry that sounds really rough. Again, all the stuff I am saying to you isn’t to shitpost or be mean but I’m just trying to be helpful and provide a different perspective that I think will be useful.

I know some people in your position and it really sucks but those folks were the exception. A PhD can still be a really successful way to signal and get your foot in the door for a lot of industries, but you gotta (1) put in the work to have marketable skills and (2) put in the work to communicate your value to others so they want to hire you. It sounds like #2 may be something you could work on and hopefully improve your prospects.

Seriously though, best of luck in this process dude. And agreed with your general sentiment - PhDs can definitely be a trap in some cases.

>If you didn’t even get an interview, the you likely have a poor resume that isn’t making a good first impression because the majority of recruiters/HR folks I know get a massive boner when they see PhD and python in the same resume.

My resume is fine. I primarily applied for data analysis jobs within biotech and pharma. But I also applied for maybe two dozen analyst position outside of biomedicine. Nada.

When I applied for my first jobs after getting the BA.

Luckily back when I was in High School so I never went to college. I employ college educated people and make the same salary that my best friend with his masters in mechanical engineering makes.

I’ve helped many people whose resume they thought were “fine” but were in fact trash. I am not saying yours is necessarily trash, but as you said yourself, you have sent this out to many people with zero replies, so at the very least it is not effective.

Given the experience I have with recruiters and your background (PhD + coding skills), I am willing to bet good money the resume is the problem.

Are you telling me my Master's in Women's Studies is useless? I'm a male btw.

This is a good point, OP. If your school sucks at real world stuff as much as you say, this is good advice. Hire a recruiting firm.

>Given the experience I have with recruiters and your background (PhD + coding skills), I am willing to bet good money the resume is the problem.

In what respect? I am very careful about upselling my coding skills. What I have is a basic background in Python which you get from Coursera, Codeacademy or by reading a book or two. And beyond that, I almost exclusively analysed a very specific type of data: high throughput transcriptomic data which is primarily about feature selection, unsupervised clustering and simple statistical tests. Most complex thing I used were probably generalized linear models. I have some experience with numpy, scipy, pandas, sklearn, statsmodel. However, I would not be able to function well as a for instance developer.

After I graduated with a master's in MIS and no jobs cared at all. They wanted experience. Now I have over $50k in student loan debt. The parties and all night gaming sessions away from parents were almost worth it though.

college endowments are the real scam. Harvard's endowment is 41 BILLION!

Sucks bro.

This is all really good and you are hitting all the right keywords (mass recruiting works primarily on keyword searching resume btw).

So now I am even MORE inclined to say it is probably your resume.

There are a lot of factors that go into making your resume “good” and it is almost a bit of an art. These factors are all industry specific. So it is very hard for me to say what’s particularly wrong since the devil is in the details (think of it like writing a persuasive essay). So like this post said
I think at this point it might be best to get professional help with your resume and seek some recruiters. If this is outside your scope, I highly recommend you try networking. Not bullshit cocktail events (though those can be helpful) but real networking. Real networking: you actually find people working in an industry you are legitimately interested in (use LinkedIn), find someone in that industry with a similar background than you (school alumni are a great place to start), and ask them if they would be down for an informational interview. Use the informational interview as a way to learn more about them, how they got there, how the industry actually works and how you could get inside the industry. If you can “click” enough and the person isn’t an asshole, they’ll usually be very willing to help you with simple things like referrals, taking a look at your resume before you send it off or pointing you to a friend of theirs who might be a better person to talk to for all of the above.

Once you have a few of these people, you will be much better prepared to apply again and often times they will actually offer first round interviews if they like you enough.

Say you do informational interviews and it turns out you hate the industry? Great! Now you know something you didn’t know before and you can move on to other industries.

After 12 years I finally got a cush IT job working remote most days almost making $100k yearly but my degree didn't help with that at all. I'm in so much debt now that over a third of my income each month goes towards credit cards and loans. Those are my fault though.

OP here. That's my fucking dream. How did you do this?

>I think at this point it might be best to get professional help with your resume and seek some recruiters

I actually had some resume workshops with people from industry at my institution. And one of them did look over my resume.

Part luck part skill with computers. Been through 5 jobs since I started and upgraded a bit each time. I recommend a big place with security and history like an IT company that works with banks or healthcare. Lot of lazy idiots and old systems there that you can outperform and make better for quick gains. Never do a startup if you can help it. Need any specific help?