>low iq stoners go on about how psychedelics open your mind up and make you more positive
>I try some just learned that human life is objectively worthless and if there even is a God he probably doesnt even know we exist as we are like bacteria to him
Low iq stoners go on about how psychedelics open your mind up and make you more positive
Jordan Kelly
Julian Morris
Well, ponder your revelation a bit more. Nihilism is fun and all but you eventually get snapped back to reality. Despite playing the ultimate game called life, you still need to play it through to the end. You dont have all the answers yet, remember that.
John Wilson
No I get that I just mean psychedelic shit is utter bullshit and i wouldnt wish the knowledge I gained on my worst enemy.
Nolan Kelly
>if there even is a God
>bacteria
wrong
First of all you need to understand yourself with the concept of Divine Simplicity.
Because as long as you think of God as some kind of powerful alien, some cosmic superhero like Thor or Zeus or even Santa Claus, you are starting with wrong assumptions and obviously you will end up with wrong conclusions.
God is not a magic creature. In fact, he isn't a creature at all. He is the creator and everything else is created by him. This means that God isn't dependent/contingent on anything. For example if God were blue, that would mean that color needs to exist "before" God, that color is more fundamental.
But that would just introduce the question of why God is blue, what made him that way. What composed him in such a way.
That goes for any feature, for any constraint. Thus God is not constraint by or dependent on or contingent upon anything. He isn't this way or that way. He just is.
Now: If God isn't in any way, it still leaves the question whether God is or isn't, whether he exists at all.
I answer: God is being/existence itself. It isn't possible for him to not exist, because "being" is "what he is". It is his essence. Just like triangles necessarily have 3 sides, God necessarily exists. Because that is what existence does, it exists.
Can we then say anything about him at all? Of course!
He is omnipresent, because he isn't constrained by space. Like how math is not here or there, God isn't here or there.
Similar argumentation applies to his eternity, his immutability, his perfection (lack of potentials) and so on.
Now all of that sounds really abstract, more like a principle, a law. But: God must've acted, he must've created complex things, which proves his agency. Indeed he creates now by actualizing the world in every moment.
Furthermore he only created some things, not everything. Which means he decided, showing his wisdom.
Would God create something he hates or doesn't like? Wouldn't make sense, => God loves you
Charles Turner
Once you understand the concept of Divine Simplicity, you will see that all proofs of or arguments for the existence of God lead to this.
The cosmological arguments: These arguments argue from a principle (explanation, causation, composition) and show that you are able to trace everything back to a beginning, if you accept that principle. For example: In biology there are many species, species evolve from other species, this cannot go into infinity, therefore there must be a (set of) first species.
After you show that an infinite regress is impossible and that multiple beginnings would need a more fundamental beginning, you can show that you will end at Divine Simplicity. Rejecting those arguments is only possible by rejecting fundamental principles like "things don't suddenly pop into and out of existence", "reality is real" and "things have an explanation". If you reject these principles, you are crazy.
The ontological arguments: The ontological arguments show a really easy way for the greatest conceivable being, which is God.
If this greatest being didn't necessarily exist, it could be greater by necessarily existing. Since it is already the greatest thing, it must exist necessarily.
The greatest being can of course not be constrained or limited by anything, once again leading us to Divine Simplicity.
The argument of gradation of being. For every quality (like temperature, length, etc.) we can identify something setting the standard or spanning a domain/dimension. For example nothing can be greater than space itself, making space itself the biggest thing. Furthermore, things are actualized according to those dimensions. Since certain things exist and certain things don't exist, we can identify existence as such a dimension, which means it is the pure act of being => Divine Simplicity
Want more?
Oliver Gomez
god must have loved every terrible thing one human has done to another human, then
why worship?
Mason Howard
>but isn't this some new age esoteric shit?
No. This is classical theism, which is the view of most of Islam, most of Judaism, many Hindus and most importantly most Christians (except for some protestant heretics). The Catholic Church even dogmatized it.
The doctrine of Divine Simplicity can be traced back to Plato and Aristotle, with Plato pondering on "the Good" or "the One", from which all compositions come from. Aristotle conceptualized the "prime mover" or "pure actuality", which is the idea that whenever things change, their potentials get actualized, which gives us a series that most terminate in something which doesn't need to be actualized, but is fully actual.
>but doesn't the Bible describe God as an antropomorphic being?
No. Such language was used to make us understand our relationship with God. So for example if we break the law, we don't physically destroy something. There doesn't need to be someone who repairs the law and up to this point murder is okay. "Breaking" or "violating" is used metaphorically, showing us that damage was done.
Landon Wilson
yeah i like what nick mullen said on the latest cumtown
something like
>you only meet god on the good trips
>yeah i tripped and met god and he confirmed that im a narcissistic retard doing drugs and having """experiences""" that should be left for teenagers
Jackson Walker
>god must have loved every terrible thing one human has done to another human, then
No. God allows evil to happen, so we might bring greater good from it. There cannot be bravery if there is nothing to fear. There cannot be patience if there is nothing to endure.
The greatest good is found in rejecting the vices of the world and defeating them with virtue.
>why worship?
For your own sake. Worship isn't there to please God, it is there to redirect yourself towards the objective good.
Aiden Williams
what makes being brave good? its only useful if theres something to fear
couldnt god create a world where everyone was brave?
and what about determinism?
Bentley Young
Psychedelics used to make me feel happiness, now I find my surroundings even more disturbing when I use them
Blake Johnson
would you rather not know?
Jaxson Davis
pussy much?
Isaiah Moore
you sound like a gay yoga instructor with a man bun
Juan Barnes
Psychs are hella fun. But that's it. Enlightenment doesn't exist. Only awareness.
Adam Cook
why create humans?
if to share the world with humans then
why share the world with humans?
why does god do anything?
Colton Foster
>what makes being brave good? its only useful if theres something to fear
couldnt god create a world where everyone was brave?
God could probably create a world where everyone is brave or "perfect" in every way.
However, it is greater to achieve perfection than it is to have it from the start, as the achievement is an additional good. Especially because it would remove essential features of humanity. If humans don't live life on earth, where they can either seek or reject God, either choose objective goals or subjective pleasure, then you wouldn't really be a human.
It's like a lion in a world where he doesn't need to eat. Such a lion would just lay around all day. But it is the majesty of hunting and killing gazelles that makes lions to be what they are.
>and what about determinism?
technically refuted, since certain quantum mechanics are indeterministic. However, computers are deterministic, so we can absolute assume that small quantum mechanics don't influence human behavior, at least not in a significant way.
Weakest form: It seems to me that God actualizes the world according to our free choices, which he obviously knew from eternity. So if God knew that we would choose to do certain actions, he could've arranged the atoms to interact in such a way.
Slightly stronger: God lets us be natural forces, so that we may actualize our choices in some way. Of course we are constrained in various ways by the rest of the natural world, however, there are a couple of arguments to support this theory, especially if you look into academics like David Chambers and his views on consciousness.
Dominic Hughes
>2020
>Still believing in God.
Why do you lie to yourself? For comfort?
Henry Morales
this board is for people over 18. fuck off and go give yourself hppd baby
Luke Hughes
>why create humans?
to have a relationship
>if to share the world with humans then
>why share the world with humans?
>why does god do anything?
God is fundamentally goodness, love, relationship and it seems that he decided to express his perfection in an act of creation. Creation is an image of God and reaches it's perfection in resembling or becoming like God, which is what God made us to do.
Adrian Bailey
>Why do you lie to yourself?
Got any arguments?
Dylan Butler
>Just like triangles necessarily have 3 sides, God necessarily exists. Because that is what existence does, it exists.
this is the most retarded argument for a god existing I've ever heard. "he exists because he does". fuckwit
Grayson Gray
what if we can't attain "perfection" because we are limited by our birth? like our parents or our birthplace
why do we need that essential feature of humanity? because god created us as perfect as he could?
Carson Nelson
>How does God create man in his image, if God has no image? How can he create man in his nature if man's nature is fundamentally flawed and mundane? How can God create a man as all that he is, yet, that man is unable to receive God's grace? How can God punish his children to an eternity of suffering when he did not impart his grace onto them? How can a God endless aeons judge a man based on his >100 years on Earth, when man cannot grasp the will of God, even if given an eternity to understand in it?
Levi Perez
>this is the most retarded argument for a god existing I've ever heard. "he exists because he does". fuckwit
I think you are misreading this. There has to be something that needs to exist necessarily. Which is existence itself. Everything else just _can_ exist, given it's dependency on other things. What we are essentially asking is: "Why is reality real?" Either reality isn't real at all, or reality is essentially real or something else makes reality real.
Reality is real, so we can strike option 1
If there is something else that makes reality real, that thing would need to be real to, in a more fundamental way. Which means there is a more fundamental reality, which again brings us to the previous question.
Therefore, reality must be essentially real.
There needs to be a ground that doesn't need to stand on anything else. This everyone knows as "God".
>what if we can't attain "perfection" because we are limited by our birth?
Perfect doesn't mean you need to be a 6'4" chad. Perfect means becoming a saint, which is something everyone can become.
>why do we need that essential feature of humanity?
>because god created us as perfect as he could?
Because otherwise humans wouldn't be humans. God could've created horses with wings, but then these animals wouldn't be horses.
>if God has no image?
As a free creature, resembling God's freedom in a certain way. A 2D image doesn't show the fullness of the 3D world, it fundamentally can't. However, it is still an image.
>How can he create man in his nature
He doesn't. Image and likeliness.
> that man is unable to receive God's grace?
Every man is able to receive God's grace.
>How can God punish his children to an eternity of suffering when he did not impart his grace onto them?
Because his children turned away from God and rejected his free gift. The torment is a condition of this rejection.
>How can a God endless aeons judge a man based on his...
God knows your heart.
Nicholas Russell
cont:
>when man cannot grasp the will of God, even if given an eternity to understand in it?
You have the natural law written into your heart as your conscience. In your life you are faced with various decisions that shape you.
Nolan Evans
what about kids who die in childbirth? can they become saints?
Isaiah Morales
>god must have loved every terrible thing one human has done to another human, then
I'm not a christian (or any kind of religious), but that argument is retarded.
Free will is allegedly gods greatest gift to humanity. The point of free will is that you have a choice. If you can't choose to be evil you also can't choose to be good, which makes being good meaningless.
For a more logical reason that doesn't require you to believe in the good intentions of a hypothetical creator there's also the fact that humans need challenges to grow and learn. A world with no evil, no natural disasters, no illnesses etc. wouldn't have any challenges.
So if you're assuming the "proud parent" kind of god him leaving us to deal with those challenges by ourselves is just good parenting. Can't coddle your kids forever if you want them to grow.
Logan Robinson
You sound like you just took psychedelics in a bad enviroment/mindset. It actually does indeed change lives. I've expierienced this myself, I wouldnt knock it my first try user, take a bigger dose next time.
Chase James
We don't know, there has been a lot of theological discussion, but I doubt they will become saints and end up in heaven.
If they are baptized or their parents planned to baptize them, they will for sure, since that removes original sin.
If not, then we can only hope for God's mercy. Some think that they will end up in another state called Limbo, where they don't experience God's essence in the beatific vision, but are also not confronted with the pains of rejecting God, which equates to hell.
Some say they end up in heaven, but can't possibly understand it, which is similar to the Limbo idea.
James Ramirez
being a human, we have things that influence towards one opinion or another; a child growing up in a satanist cult wouldn't have the free will necessary to choose to be good, because they wouldn't know what "good" even is
and why would god need to be a proud parent? why would a being capable of doing anything it wanted perfectly need the validation?
Blake Barnes
do you think a soul contains our personality? what about when people get brain damage and change?
Aiden Lewis
>It actually does indeed change lives.
It can, sometimes, but that doesn't mean it will. Or that you couldn't reach the same conclusion with sufficient navel gazing.
I've spent several years experimenting with psychedelics and i never had an experience like that. Most of the time a trip is just a trip.
Ryan Long
Being influenced doesn't take away free will. There's actual reallife cases of children who grew up in cults rejecting those teachings.
>and why would god need to be a proud parent? why would a being capable of doing anything it wanted perfectly need the validation?
As i said, i'm not religious. But from what i know of Christianity that's how god is supposed to be.
As for why? No idea. Ask your local priest i guess.
I don't even get what my fellow humans are thinking most of the time, i certainly have no idea what would motivate a god.
Leo Hughes
Yes, in a way.
First of all we need to clarify what Catholics mean by soul. Catholics are not Cartesian dualists, so they don't see the soul and the body as 2 different objects. Catholics are monists, which means body and soul are one objection, similar to how a golden statue is made up by the matter (gold) and the form (the shape of the statue). The soul is therefore the shape or the form or the body.
>what about when people get brain damage and change?
It seems like it would change people, even being restricted to a wheelchair might change your personality.
However, Catholics hold the view that God gave you the ability to understand good and evil in some way, so that you can choose how to behave. This may be clouded and you are especially called to seek truth and objective reasoning, instead of relying on your intuitions. However, we believe that people can choose the objective goodness and seek God at every point in their life.
Owen Ward
>d punish his children to an eternity of suffering when he did not impart his grace onto them?
>Because his children turned away from God and rejected his free gift. The torment is a condition of this rejection.
This is the most retarded nonsensical coping ass shit I've ever read. Just like every Christian explanations I've ever read. "It doesn't have to make sense because God is mysterious HUUUURRRR!"
Elijah Bailey
if you account for every single thing that influences us, from our peers to our gut bacteria to our brain chemistry, it does take away free will
i didnt know that catholics held that belief; does that mean since our bodies are all different, our souls are all different? does that mean that some people can have a harder time than others at doing good?
and why would god allow truth and objective reasoning to cloud us from good?
thank you for answering me btw