No, you see the lack of ammo drops in Doom Eternal is a good thing because it makes you think tactically!

>No, you see the lack of ammo drops in Doom Eternal is a good thing because it makes you think tactically!
>What do you mean you want to use guns in a shooter game?

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have you tried getting close to them with the shotgun?

Hello retard incapable of switching weapons.

>he doesn't count his shots

Doom has always been about prioritizing targets. Always as in that was the premise of classic Doom as well. You'd take out hitscanners (soldiers) and leave the imps to take out bigger enemies, because strafing constantly lets you dodge all imp projectiles. It's the same now. Eternal furthers this mindset and in a way forces you to play that way. Now, you want to leave the zombies for later, since you're moving so fast to not get hit by other shit that unless you intentionally seek them out, they can't touch you. It's a waste of time, so you leave them so you can target them when you need ammo or health. It's further making prioritizing important. People who are reeing obviously don't think that far, they just parrot other retards.

It makes sense when 2016 could be beat only using SSG and gauss.

t. can't press C

#Filtered ;)

it's not a first person shooter it's a first person chainsawer

This is actually a really good take.

Now we just need a gun that fires chainsaws

I did all of those things in Doom 2016 without the devs having to force it down my throat. That game felt slick because you had the equipment, the weapon mods, and the glory kills at your fingertips but the game never slapped its dong in your face and said USE THIS WEAPON NOW AND USE EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ABILITY EVERY TIME IT COOLS DOWN, BITCH.

That too, in 2016 I felt like I just had to shoot everything without much strategy besides be constantly moving. I tried playing Eternal like that and I got my ass kicked.

Eh, 2016 feels way easier though. Like I said

are you people playing the same game as me? When the fuck do you ever run out of ammo when you can do the following:

a) chainsaw an enemy for ammo
b) pick up ammo on the map which is plentiful
c) explode barrels to give you ammo with the praetor suit upgrade.
d) explode them again when they respawn for even more ammo.

The only rare ammo is the BFG / Unmayker ammo. That's it you fucking scrubs. Now shut the fuck up.

It is absolutely easier. But if I were to increase the difficulty, I'd want to do it by increasing the enemy count, making them more aggressive, making them more accurate and/or damaging, generally increasing the intensity without pigeonholing the player into slavishly confirming to the devs vision of muh gameplay loop.

2016 offers the player a canvas, Eternal is a coloring book.

I think what they were trying to go for with Eternal was a sort of all-encompassing cheese counter by affecting the two most important aspects of a shooter: the weapons and enemies. They made them play off each other in certain ways to ensure that every weapon would have its time in the spotlight.
Brilliant in theory, but their ham-fisted execution makes it clunky and flow-breaking, not to mention buzz-killing.

>but their ham-fisted execution makes it clunky and flow-breaking, not to mention buzz-killing.
I honestly disagree, things like the Assault Cannon and Shotgun that would normally be outclasses are saved by the counter mentality because of grenading Cacos and sniping Mancubi/Arachnotrons.

In DOOM 2016 you're meant to feel empowered by being a demon killing superhero and pounding the enemies into submission by honing the method you prefer most to perfection
In DOOM Eternal you're meant to feel "empowered" by adhering to the minuscule amount of correct strategies the developers allow you to use to handle an encounter

I thought they talked a whole lot of big stuff about expanding the options the player has

i can't believe people are having such a shit fit over this game.

I just finished playing 2016 for the first time a few months ago, and now am playing this and outside of the movement there's hardly any difference. The weapon upgrades are the same, the way you upgrade your armor / weapons is the same. Same fucking runes for the most part, it's almost an identical game with more jumping and dashing as well as some mediocre platforming. The levels are a little bit longer in general, but they follow the same general linear layout with arenas every few minutes for you to fight about 30 enemies at a time. That's about the only difference, yet people here are having endless shit fits about this game and I just don't understand why. It's not bad, Doom 2016 wasn't the best game either, but it was a very fun, solid shooter, just like this game is.

Even the weapons are all pretty much the same, you don't have the shitty pistol no one used in 2016, the railgun is replaced with another similar weapon, chaingun is still the chaingun but with a shield now, shotgun is still the shotgun but instead of rapid fire it's now a chaingun like attachment. Plasma rifle is better than it was in 2016, rocket launcher pretty much the same outside of appearance.

I just don't understand what everyone is crying about, I am about done with the campaign and it's taken me about twice as long as 2016 took me to beat. It's a harder game in general too, very punishing on nightmare so I am just playing on ultra-violence to finish the game and not die every 5 minutes.

I get criticizing the narrative and story, I wish we spent more time fighting demons on Earth, those parts while the environment and backdrops looked awesome, just weren't long enough and didn't feel like we did all that much.

The "enemy counter" is a nice idea but it really falls flat. Ignoring fodder enemies:
>shotgun - use the grenade to stun cacodemons for glorykill, useless everywhere else
>assault rifle - use the scope to blow off arachnotron/revenant/mancubus guns or mayker drone heads, useless for everything else
>plasma rifle - use to overload shields or stun prowlers/whiplashes, useless for everything else
>rocket launcher - use lockon shot to wear down big enemies, useless for everything else
>super shotgun - overpowered against every enemy in the game just like 2016 except you only get 12 shots before needing to reload
>chaingun - completely useless, ammo is better spent using the rifle to snipe weak points
>ballista - use the charge shot to kill cacodemons and pain elementals, useless for everything else
also there's the necessary ssg+ballista quickswap combo that's the only way to kill marauders

Why the fuck does a thread with a wojak edit as the thumbnail have the most intelligent arguments both for and against this game?

you're wrong on everything, all weapons are useful on pretty much every enemy, including alt fires. Especially wrong about the plasma rifle because it shreds everything.

There's more mechanics but less manner of personal expression in the grand scheme of things especially on higher difficulties, my Nightmare run feels like a literal puzzle game instead of an FPS
I don't like it

Wrong, it doesn’t make it tactical, it forces you to move around the map more and constantly rip and tear.

using anything other than the SSG and gauss was the player humoring the game developers. eternals combat design is a gargantuan step up in everything department except arena design. only time i ever ran outta ammo was the cultist base master level on nightmare and my first round or two with the marauder on UV. chainsaw feels like a natural part of my kit and my only complaint was it being more clear when I can use it on non-fodder demons

>tripfag
>2012+8

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you're wrong on almost everything. chaingun shield safely deletes melee heavies and nets you some breathing room and mobile sentry is pretty much unparalleled for burning down single targets. Don't feel like addressing the rest, but they all have use.

in close quarters imps can be dangerous because they can melee and move at the same time
only the zombiemen are truly inoffensive.

If you're not just holding LMB at a wall I don't see how people can burn through all of their ammo between chainsaw recharges.

Also using both types of grenades on CD goes a long way in lowering ammo spending requirements and damage outputs of the crowds that can build up in later missions

There’s actually more ammo in this game than Doom 2016 theoretically

>plasma rifle - use to overload shields or stun prowlers/whiplashes, useless for everything else
Nigger you what. The plasma rifle is basically the true assault rifle of the game. It has such insanely high fire speed and decent damage, plus the heat wave mod is great for a "fuck you and everything around you" button. Its probably my most used weapon at this point.

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You're never forced to use a particular weapon with a particular enemy, you have a suite of different options to deal with each particular type and there is never just one superior option to use. What you are forced to do is switch up your weapons and abilities so you don't use up all your ammo without thinking.

The problem is autists see the strategy and can’t not adhere to it, so in a tight situation rather than just blasting with whatever gun they have, they struggle to switch their weapons because they just HAVE to get that weak point or counter. This stresses the autist out and makes them feel like they’re FORCED to maximize their efficiency.

The HMG is a great fallback weapon and the precision shot's capstone upgrade has a lot of utility. The rocket launcher's remote detonate and the autoshotty's grenade launcher are amazing crowd control weapons, with the former being more suited for heavier lifting while the latter is more spammable. Plasma rifle is always strong, and the ballista is great for focusing on heavier targets/bosses. The chaingun packs a serious punch and can stagger pressure demons like the barons of hell with ease, that and the shield is excellent for a quick defensive option.

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>shotgun
The grenade is great for taking out groups of fodder along with weakpoints and the auto will work in a pinch if you don't have ammo for your chaingun.
>assault rifle
Scope is great for headshots and upgraded it's even better, micro missiles are generally better than they were in 2016
>plasma rifle
Heat blast is great at staggering and taking out pockets of mooks, gives the plasma rifle way more utility
>rocket launcher
What's the complaint here? The rocket launcher is meant for the big dudes and you're a retard if you waste it on fodder.
>super shotgun
The meathook gives you a lot of mobility especially when you master it to coat demons in flame for easy armor. Of course there's less ammo and it doesn't have ridiculous range anymore, you can't use it to cheese the whole game like in 2016.
>chaingun
Shield is a lifesaver when surrounded and mobile turret will shred whatever you point it at even if it's an ammo sink
>ballista
It can also take out weakpoints and deals a fair amount of damage to heavies.

>not using the RL to instantly harvest 100+ armor from fodder

None of this changes the fact that it all feeds back into a singular playstyle that affords no deviation or modification whatsoever.

>Singular playstyle
>I have to use more of my arsenal to get through tough fights :((((((((((((((

It's also bullshit, the amount of times you see people that say this on here also mention how they completely disregard several weapon mods that have very powerful use cases is retarded.

The fuck are you talking about? You've got at least three, usually more, options to deal with any particular heavy outside of the marauder. Your only real limit is the amount of ammo you have at that particular moment so if you say want to take out an arachnotron but have no assault ammo just use the ballista or shotgun grenade to take out their weak point. Or you could freeze em and go chaingun or auto shotgun on their asses and ignore the weakpoint completely.

You have yet to refute my argument.
Explain to me how there can be any playstyle other than running at full speed and using the weapons and weapon mods exactly how the developers intended? What happened to the freedom of 2016, where you could become a hyperspeed ninja or a walking tank or anything in between?

I prefer the analogy of following the instructions or building your own shit with LEGO.

Just play on easy then retard, that's about as hard as 2016's nightmare was. If you don't want to be forced to stay on your toes don't play the harder difficulties.

You’re still dodging the argument.
IS THERE MORE THAN ONE EFFECTIVE TACTIC
ANSWER ME
YOU CAN’T, BECAUSE THERE ISN’T.

What fucking tactic are you talking about? Being a drooling retard and only switching between two weapons? Each weapon can more or less be used against any enemy type fairly effectively with the right mod, your only limit is balancing your ammo.

>What happened to the freedom of 2016, where you could become a hyperspeed ninja or a walking tank or anything in between?
What the fuck are you talking about? 2016 was SS and gauss.

>Explain to me how there can be any playstyle other than running at full speed and using the weapons and weapon mods
Why do you want there to be another playstyle? That is objectively more enjoyable, has a higher skill ceiling and induces a more satisfying flow state than 16's loop. What else should Doom be? You cunts already argue that there's too much RPG influence as is.

>NOOOOOO DONT MAKE ME PLAY THE WAY THE DEV WANTS ME TO PLAY
I wish you faggots would stop spamming this quip, literally every video game is a set of parameters designed by the devs. You complaining about being suboptimal because you have to press Q or C (NOOOOOOOOOO) isn't any different from being suboptimal in 2016 using anything other than SS and Gauss.

this. it doesn't feel like an FPS. it's a resource manager

Only thing i can say i definitively dont like is marauders taking way to much to kill all my super shot gun blasts at point blank and 7 charged ballista shots its ridiculous

In DOOM 2016, there were multiple (though admittedly cheesy) tactics that could get you through the game. You could roll Rich Get Richer+Micro Missiles or Sentry Mode to effectively become a nonstop death-spamming slow moving tank or you could kit up your SSG and Combat Shotty and equip Glory Kill speed and other such runes to become a lightning-fast ass destroyer that ducks in and out of combat. You could also run with the HAR scope and Siege Gauss for a slow, single target high-damage sniper build with tunes like vacuum and GK range.
In Eternal it’s manically switching your weapons like a spastic and mashing keys to try and adapt to the situations the devs throw at you rather than any kind of methodical setup, and therefore pigeonholes you into this singular mashup of all of 2016’s playstyles that devalues the elements of each one and de-incentivizes repeat playthroughs to see how you could have done things differently.

>a resource manager
Welcome to DOOM 1 pistol starts, aka how the maps were designed from the beginning of the series.

>2016's playstyles
>only use a couple of weapons
>a good thing
You can't be fucking serious. I loved Doom 2016 but it was piss easy and rarely forced you to adapt to anything. Those aren't "builds", that's the game being so forgiving that you can just use whatever whenever and almost never be punished.

>use whatever whenever and never be punished
Just like classic doom you retard
Can you say the same for eternal? As I said before, you only play the way it’s explicitly laid out which devalues repeat playthroughs since there are no other playstyle paths to explore.

>never forced to use a particular weapon with a particular enemy...there is never just one superior option to use
In a game where tutorials tell you which weapons are best for combating specific enemies.
Shotgun sticky or Machine gun scoped shots for Arachnatron, Grenade or Shotgun sticky for Caco, etc. There are only ever two viable weapons for any one enemy, sometimes less, like with the Cyber Mancubus, which almost requires you use Blood Punch.
There is always a superior option, and that option just so happens to be Hugo's favorite for any given situation. On any of the real difficulties, Ultra and Nightmare, using non-optimal weapons for enemies exacerbates the already present ammo scarcity issues, further reinforcing a very strict play style that just so happens to be Hugo's favorite.

Explain

I can't wait to play the new iteration of wolfenstein and have to swap through all my arsenal because the developer thought it would be too easy to let me dual wield shotguns the whole game.

What this thread is telling me is having more than 2 guns at any time is a bad thing and a sign of poor design.

No you fucking idiot it’s telling you that spastically switching between all of you weapons because specific enemies have weaknesses to them and you’re wasting your time by using anything else is bad design ad restricts the player’s number of possible methods to one.

I didnt even upgrade my suit or my weapons until through half of the game , which kind of sucks because im enjoying it more going back to the start with all the upgrades and weapons
Kinda like Devil May Cry

>whaddya mean rock beats scissors? THIS IS BULLSHIT I DEMAND TO USE PAPER ALL THE TIME

shut up zoomer

This is a massively oversimplified version of the concept I should not need to explain again.
Refer to
and
.

>v complains about rpg elements so they dial it back to focus on gunplay and resource management
>v complains about gunplay and resource management and wants their rpg "builds" back