*destroys your sense of adventure*

I think it depends more on the player if thats what they want more, i feel that games should give the option for these kinds of things. When i first played skyrim or alot of big open world games i typically don't use many waypoints except for certain missions and i take my own time exploring the world without doing muchquesting in the first place

Careful user those kinds of radical thoughts will get you in trouble here

Wrong. Having it in the game at all affects game design. It's not an "optional feature" when the devs have factored it in to every decision they made regarding world design

That's not a fault with fast travel. That's a dev problem.
There's nothing wrong with fast travel as a mechanic.

Fast travel should be an in-story mechanic, like hiring a silt strider from major ports or using the mage's guild to teleport. It should be just that you can teleport from one dungeon to another whenever you want, which is just lazy design and used by devs so you don't realise their world is empty and copy pasted

damn, when i see that guy i really want to do some BIG and HARD math problems

>fast travel isn't a fault with fast travel
What are you even trying to say

What exactly stops you from not making the quest active, and then just using NPC dialogue or the quests screen as a "journal" and figuring out where to go?

Then you can play "immersively" with no icon telling you where to go and you can only go back what's written in your journal and what NPCs tell you.

Problem solved.

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Fine.
>Skyrim's fast travel
Bad.
Happy?

>putting effort into figuring out information that your character should already know in-universe
anti immersion

>There's nothing wrong with fast travel as a mechanic
if you can do it from anywhere, there is a problem
if the time you skip while doing it mattered, then it wouldnt, but most games have no time penalty for most objectives, meaning fast travel is basically a teleportation cheat.

Because the games are designed around there being a quest marker, the NPCs don't tell you where things are.

>ugh this destroys sense of exploration lol
>*uses GPS in real life*
hmmmmmmmmm

unironicall trying to figure out where the fuck to go is like the worst part of old games, quest markers are a neccesary evil

That doesn't seem right.

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a) I don't
b) people don't drive around for the sake of exploring, you goddamn retard.
What worldspace mod is that? I can tell that's not the main province.

What do you mean? Dialogue tells you everything you need to know for nearly everything, and opening up the 'Quests' screen in the pause menu gives you journal entries for your quests.

Just don't make the quest active, and you won't get a quest marker telling you exactly where to go.

Voila!! Immersion!!

Every quest tells you via dialogue or a written note where to go, and each incremental phase of the quest tells you via dialogue or written note where to go. If all else fails, hit pause, go to the 'Quests' screen, and you'll see your quests and objectives arranged in a journal-like format, just like the old RPG's of yesteryear. Your personal quest diary with diary entries is right there.

Problem solved! Immersive quests whenever and wherever you want it!

>Every quest tells you via dialogue or a written note where to go
Absolute and complete lie if we're talking about skyrim. NPCs dialog literally tell you the name and that's it, "the bandits are at redorans retreat" with 0 directions or even a general area, then your quest log says nothinng except "clear redorans retreat of bandits." It's 100% dependent on the marker

>I don't
t. 23 year old fag without a driver's license

No lies here; in fact, you are the one spreading false information.

Your map will get updated with the location that an NPC tells you to check out, so you can use your map to find out where the location you need go is.

Just like you would get your blank map marked in real life if you didn't know where a location was, but someone wanted you to go there.

Immersive!! Easy!! Now you can solve all quests with not a single quest marker!! Just like the good old days!!

I bike.

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>Your map will get updated with the location that an NPC tells you to check out
yeah and they won't give you directions where it is. They tell you the name and to check it out and it magically appears on your map, there's 0 directions in the dialog like you claim.

Skyrim is one of the few modern games that does exploration right even if you still have quest markers though. Stuff like The Witcher 3 or Ubisoft open worlds are way more insulting.

Based

>"the bandits are at redorans retreat"
It generally appears on the map once you are given the location though.

There is no evil greater than fast travel on demand

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That's my point. It ONLY appears on the map, there's no other way to know where redorans retreat it. They tell you to go there, and it magically appears on your map with a quest marker, and that's the ONLY way to steer you towards it in the game. The good old RPGs would say something like "redorans retrreat is south west of blah blah blah in a cave along the mountain side" and you'd have to go look for it. Skyrim just says "go to redorans retreat" end of dialog, and then you open the map and see the quest marker.

>there's 0 directions in the dialog like you claim.

I never said they give you directions. Another falsehood being spread by you!!

I said, and I am quoting myself:

>Every quest tells you via dialogue or a written note where to go

So in your example, a questgiver will say "go to Redoran's Retreat". You now know the location of where you need to go. If you have been there before, you can open your map and look for Redoran's Retreat. If you haven't been there before, the NPC is kind enough to mark your map where it is.

Just like you would handle the situation in real life.

Immersive!! Life-like!! The spirit of exploration and discovery in WRPG's lives on!!

Messed up the quote, meant to quote this post

For me, its actually the opposite.

With a map marker I felt I could wander anywhere and not get lost, so I was encouraged to just walk around at my leisure.

Then...

Like...

Omg...

Are you ready for this?

Like wow....

Like hang on...

Are you ready?

Can you handle it?

Like...

Turn it off.

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Okay so we misunderstood each other I guess. We both agree what skyrim is, the only difference is you never played an old RPG in your life so you have no idea how it differs from a good one

I don't understand why people find fast travel immersion breaking. If the map isn't insanely dangerous to walk around, then you can just easily imagine your character taking a walk over several days to reach the destination. There's nothing immersion breaking about it.

>getting lost in a video game
>one with an indepth map with fast travel no less
I don't understand how anyone ever gets lost to begin with, but you literally CANNOT get lost in skyrim
>oh dear I'm retarded and lost my way.
>*teleports to whiterun*

asscreed odyssey had the best balance imo. you had to mark the waypoint on your map yourself with the directions they gave you. i mean they made it really simple but giving you the directions on the map, but still, it was cool

This is the thing that destroyed Rpgs

Well here's what I mean; in Morrowind the quest directions are such that you usually have to follow one trail for a long time ("walk until you reach this landmark, then go south until the destination"). So any deviation will have you lose the trail completely.

>le immersion breaking
reddit meme buzzword.

fast travel however, is just basically the developers admitting there's nothing interesting about our map, so here dude just skip it.

Nay!! You simply spread lies, not once, but twice, and I provided evidence to vindicate my points and my name!! That is the difference between you and I, sir!!

Exploration isn't not knowing where to go you absolute fucking retard

To a certain sense, it destroys the pacing and sense of being a great hero with an ingenious mind / senses / whatever.

Sure, clues are nice in some games, but in an adventure game, I prefer a GPS of sorts so it does not feel like my progress is hampered by some goofy puzzles and like. I want an adventure and a world to explore, not a puzzle to pull a block of wood in my face and say
>excuse me, did you want to have fun?

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I'm not understanding
>go west off a trail
>find a cave
>finish cave and leave
>go east back to trail
???
what's the issue?

fast travel is okay, but having an objective compass/HUD active all the time is uncomfy.

I would prefer a Metro style map where the player points their current location on the map with a finger or knife, holds a compass and objectives are scribbled notes.

No matter how interesting a map is, crossing the same routes over and over will get boring

It shouldn't be free fast travel , or fast travel anywhere
completely breaks the game

>Well here's what I mean; in Morrowind the quest directions are such that you usually have to follow one trail for a long time
Nope, they have more complicated directions than that.

your point was

>What exactly stops you from not making the quest active, and then just using NPC dialogue or the quests screen as a "journal" and figuring out where to go

and the answer is YOU CANNOT. The ONLY way to know where to go is the magic quest marker, they give you ZERO dialogue directions. Stop replying to me now faggot you reek of reddit

morrowind marked things on your map too.

But once you have the marker on your map, you don't need to follow a magical arrow.
"Oh, it's near the foot of this mountain west of Rorikstead. I'll now head in that direction".
Yes you do not get specific written directions, but the end result is the same

minimap offends me more than a compass desu

Sneed's Feed & Seed (Formerly Chuck's)

Honestly, I dont mind fast travel that much. Just explain it as a free hichhike on a caravan or something.

Its just an artificial way to keep the action going and lessen the boring nothingness in RPGs.

The end result is not the same, you are given an EXACT location on the map where to go, and that's it. Suggesting I put myself in the general area and then slam my head against the wall until I forget isn't "the end result being the same"

Not true at all, as I've stated before, your map will get marked with the location you need to go.

If you've been there before and know the place, then you will know where it is on your map already.

If you have been there before but forgot where it is, then you have to look on your map to find it.

If you have never been there before, then you will have to look on your map to find out where the NPC that just marked it placed the location at.

All of those scenarios are exactly how the situation would play out in real life with similar circumstances. You can't get more immersive than that!!

>>What exactly stops you from not making the quest active, and then just using NPC dialogue or the quests screen as a "journal" and figuring out where to go
>using NPC dialogue
stop replying