Why is Joker so good at fighting...

>Spider-man, a borderline street-leveler
This is someone who matched up against an entire roomful of core X-Men.
And Heralds are almost as big of Jobbers as the likes of The Spectre and the other DC Cosmics.

Spider-Man may not be cosmic level but he's incredibly strong and his agility has allowed him to even stagger Thor one time. Peter just holds back 90% of the time so he doesn't kill his rogues.

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>Spider-man is Charlie Sheen confirmed

Also, figures Yas Forums would try to justify plot armor.

>X-Men: The reaction time of a normal ass human.
>Heralds: Able to travel and react at faster than light speed.

Yeah it sure adds up.

On paper, the Heralds are supposed to be nigh-invincible powerhouses that can take on entire intergalactic fleets and guys the Kree without breaking a sweat.
In practice pretty much any popular hero or minor team can overcome one.

The Flash is faster than God, yet he's traditionally struggled with normal ass humans with gadgets.

Nah. Even Golden Age Joker somehow could fight on par with Batman. It was only in the late Golden Age/Silver Age when the focus was more on humor that he became incompetent in hand to hand fighting.

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I like this explanation. I had an idea of Kite man getting his ass kicked so many times that became a master of aerial combat.

He is too powerful, hence the need to power him down. Still stupid.

But how does that apply to Batman? He should never struggle against the likes of Joker.

Have you heard of Chaos style fighting? Its essentially acting without rationality or limiters to self or others. Depending on the level of insanity and lack of moral and rationalism will show mastery of the fighting art. Those who fully give of themselves and become puppets of the Chaos Flow can do anything because there are no rules to the fight, so they can decide to break five of their fingers, fart, and then throw 3 1/2 half eaten banana hiding nitro vials.

Joker is not an avatar of Chaos because he has some rules, it at least has to be funny, however most often times its found to be hilarious the way things turn out so it usually works out in the end.

You see, Joker retains some Identity, which is why he cannot beat the Batman, who despite having an "Identity" of the Batman, has given up his Identity for the sake of Justice and Virtue. Joker thinks he has done like, given up his Identity to embrace Chaos, but he has not, he retains to his Identity as a Clown and cannot embody Chaos.

In all reality, its quite funny, another polar piece of Joker and Batman.

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Here is an example of Chaos fighting.

"Fencer A Thrusts, except Fencer B to Block; Fencer B accepts the blow, thrusting into A at the same time because to Fencer B, damage to self is negligable in the battle as long as it dabs on Fencer A."

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Git gud by fighting rapist police

>Kite man, what is your superpower?
>"Well I can glide in the air if there's a strong enough breeze, but I can't actually control where I go and I need someone to hold a rope on the ground or else I float away entirely"
>Wow, that's pretty retarded
>"Yeah..."

>Not "Hell Yeah".

One job.

Being one of the three pillars of DC gives him a certain level of plot armor, at this point Joker is a massive JL level threat, same with Harley Quinn

>why is some rando cuban prison thug smart & strong enough to match Ras al Ghul & Batman, who’ve trained for thousands of years/their entire lives with the best of the best?
>why is some rando bullied wimp magically talented enough to be the only one capable of making “fear toxin” from scratch?
>why is some rando scientist who specialises in kryptobiosis capable of engineering a mechanical supersuit & a freeze ray that outs any known military tech to shame?
>why is Mad Hatter, Firefly, Prometheus, Catwoman, Hugo Strange?
Why is some rando comedian who got driven off the deep end unmatched at guerilla terrorism, biochemical warfare, capable of outsmarting Ras Al Ghul/Batman all while being a superb fighter? Same answer as for every DC character: Because is comics.

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Batman struggled with spikey head dude. Metalhead is the most underated villian in all of batman!

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Is that a huge cock outline going down his left leg?

Cause in the 40s or whatever when comics started martial arts wasn't a thing in America. Now it's just suspension of disbelief. Though you might as well ask why every comic book martial artist only knows strikes and maybe one shit looking throw. Because it's comics.

Comics writers don't know crap about combat fighting. (Okay, some, but def. not the majarity.)

I think a better question is when the hell did Captain America become a martial arts expert. He was a wimp with no training. Then he got some steroids and got shot by a beam, Then he was given a shield and sent to fight Germans. Then he got frozen. When the FUCK did he learn to fight?!

Plot armor

>Short stature
>any advantage

Who the fuck taught Cap to fight on the plane ride to Europe?!

Somebody answer the fucking question

martial arts is a meme. Just shoot the motherfucker.

his brain also got roids, so he learned everything task master style.

Harley is a lot worse. She can go toe to toe with bats and the strongest heroes and villains on earth

Super soldier serum enhanced brain, receives, processes, and recalls information instantly, he basically has Taskmaster powers.

When you get your ass beat by a grown man in a bat costume every week, you're bound to get good at fighting to some degree.

People say "joker wanking" for a reason.

I expect he trained ever since he was a lad, to be worthy of Arthur Fleck’s persona

>How was Spider-man, a borderline street-leveler
So sick of this fucking meme. HE HOLDS BACK. ALWAYS.

>>X-Men: The reaction time of a normal ass human.
You ever read a comic?

Make this canon. Lex luthor can determine it and it functions like the speed force but for autistic rage.

unpredictable!=efficient

Spider-man is only street level in terms of his average crime fighting actions. He's as strong as Luke Cage and She-Hulk, 2 heroes whose only shtick is super strength, plus he's faster, more acrobatic, has super tech, and has a danger sense.

It's implied he has had some training in his past. People always act like Killing Joke is his origin but really it was just another of many, many lies he has told over the year.

Nice

They should just have a random average joe kill the joker. No great spectacle or battle to end his stint in comics before he's revived several years later.

Just someone that managed to catch a glimpse of joker walking into an abandoned factory and deciding to take the law into his own hands.

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>He's as strong as Luke Cage and She-Hulk, 2 heroes whose only shtick is super strength

Spider-Man gets shot, Spider-Man dies, both are strong enough to actually effectively thunderclap, too.

Based Charlie

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Doubling is not a good idea on a swordfight.

Spider-man has his spidey sense to dodge bullets, and thunderclaps are a meme with low-end super strength supers like Luke Cage, all it does is knock people over.

He was trained before and after

Luke Cage and She-Hulk have gotten a lot stronger since that ranking.

>Why can he stand his ground against Batman
He can't. But he doesn't feel pain like a normal person. He is a pretty decent fighter because you can brake his jaw and he can keep going but anyone in the batfamily can beat him on a ring, the thing is, you won't be fighting him on a ring but on a place he has filled with retarded traps that will be dangerous to everyone including himself.

He isn't, he is a fantastic brawler and fighter, but he isn't a natural one or a great martial artist.
He doesn't

>Spider-man has his spidey sense to dodge bullets

He still dies if he gets shot, Luke and Jen don't have to worry about that, and he's gotten shot/blown up plenty of times before.

>thunderclaps are a meme with low-end super strength supers

It's still something Spider-Man can't do that Luke Cage can.

>plot armor
it's always been a thing for Spider-Man to always be holding back, it's why certain heroes/villains respect him and it's always been a consistent part of his powers/character and it works with the emotional beats of his story
it would be actual plot armor if it was something just recently made up and used incredibly haphazardly and with no real build up or consideration

Holding back is normal. Having the proportional strength of a spider yet curbstomping heralds & staggering Thor is plot armour.

He has 4th wall awareness, like precog but a bit more annoying.

That's literally never been implied once. Gotham Knights confirmed Killing Joke, Alan Moore went on record saying the "multiple choice" panel was meant as a simple reference to the different Golden Age version & even assuming it's untrue it nonetheless leads to a normal guy/gangster falling into a vat of acid then becoming The Joker
Doesn't work like that. Harley is bullshit because she just karate flips her way out of the Trinity's reach - which is bullshit. Joker/Scarecrow managed their feats by tailor-engineering toxins to affect specific JL members despite their respective resistances - that's not bullshit, it's just using their respective talents.

I read a comic about this particular issue once, but I can't remember the title. It had The Joker killing a judge with a bean.

Really.