Did black sabbath really influence 80s metal?

i hear mostly pic related stoner/doom and old rock/blues in sabbath.
80s metal sounds more influenced by the speed of motorhead and punk
my point is, i don't get the "black sabbath godfathers of metal" when they're just heavy gloomy hippies
it's like people want to call every hard rock 70s band as heavy metal

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they were both big influences on 80s metal, but sabbath gets more credit probably because they already had 5 or 6 hugely succesful albums out by the time motorhead only had their first.

That’s a good point though. With Sabbath it was more about their aesthetic than their sound.

Early Black Sabbath really did influence some NWOBHM bands like Angel Witch and Witchfinder General. And later on some early Power Metal bands like Metal Church.
I think that their influence is a little exaggerated. Most of the early Heavy Metal bands did not want to be Black Sabbath clones, they wanted to be Deep Purple clones. You especially hear this from the seminal Heavy Metal band Judas Priest who frequently did Deep Purple worship songs like Exciter. Rob Halford frequently channeled the falsetto singing of Ian Gillan, not so much Ozzy.
Iron Maiden it is a similar story, you won't find much Sabbath influence there but they did like Deep Purple and progressive rock.

They were one of the influences but the idea that they invented metal is utterly absurd. maiden was far more influenced by prog rock and classic rock (ESPECIALLY Thin Lizzy), priest is far more rooted in the sound of traditional rock n roll, bands like slayer took heavily from punk, etc.

The idea that Sabbath defined the sound of metal is utter bollocks.

/thread
i think it's cool that sabbath exists in a league of its own though, then you can't get tired of their sound because they're the only ones who have that sound

However, I would like to add that when the 1980s moved into more extreme music like for instance in Mercyful Fate, Slayer, early Death Metal, early Black Metal, that's where you will see more of Black Sabbath's musical influence.

>did black sabbath really influence 80s metal?
Yes.
youtube.com/watch?v=wQi1Uvz6qRs

Black Sabbath was very influential, but 80s metal was mainly inspired by this album.

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>80s metal sounds more influenced by the speed of motorhead and punk
Excuse me?

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2nding this, Metal as we know it today wouldn't exist without Discharge or Venom.

Venom were a Motorhead cover band so what you really mean to say is metal as we know it today wouldn't exist without Motorhead.

Very good points. You guys know your shit. Right now I'm listening to Plug In Jesus by Dr.Know. Also big extreme metal influence. Talking about the song "Life Returns".

Black Sabbath laid the foundations for doom metal, traditional heavy metal, and even delved into proto-speed metal and have some very early examples of thrashy riffs like what posted

Of course, the resemblance between Black Sabbath and 80s metal starts to disappear when you get into the punk-influenced genres (Thrash metal, early death and early black metal, grindcore, and the more grittier speed metal such as Venom or Motorhead etc), but there's still a recognizable connection between Black Sabbath's style and a lot of the less punky/extreme styles of metal such as doom, traditional heavy metal, some more basic styles of speed metal and some basic proggy stuff.

Iconic 80s bands like Mercyful Fate wouldn't exist without Black Sabbath.

Venom was NOT a Motorhead cover band. Venom brought the entire imagery metal would borrow in the decades to come. Plus the music itself was much more aggressive even if obviously inspired. It's especially true on Welcome to Hell. The very first song, Sons of Satan, is far more heavier than Motorhead.

>imagery
This is a music board.

Deep Purple/Rainbow/Blackmore is the missing link

>what are themes
>what are lyrics

Themes and lyrics are not music.

Tertiary nonsense.

>Iconic 80s bands like Mercyful Fate wouldn't exist without Black Sabbath.
this
youtube.com/watch?v=TJH0eBtnbcs

how do you decide which thread you want to troll? is it random or do you have a specific target?

>extremely high distortion
>downtuning
>power chords and power chord-driven riffs
Don't be a retard.

Lyrics are language. They're text. They're not music. Are you retarded?

low IQ post

Disregarding the outside culture of the music it was created in is not only incredibly disingenuous, but shows the lacks of knowledge one has in a given genre. Saying that only the music matters and acting like what's around it doesn't is pure hypocrisy. If you've ever appreciated a band more because of its lyrics, its live performances or events surrounding the music or band in itself, if you've ever disregarded or got interested in an album because of its cover art you are deluded when saying that imagery doesn't matter.

Imagery is important in any type of music.
>what is jazz without its imagery and social impact
>what is hiphop without its imagery and social impact
>what is techno without its imagery and social impact
>what is metal without its imagery and social impact
>what is what is pop without its imagery and social impact

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he said that venom brought satanic themes to metal and you're suggesting that doesn't mean absolutely anything. that venom didn't influence anything, and it was all actually motorhead?

>what is jazz without its imagery and social impact
Jazz music.
>what is hiphop without its imagery and social impact
Hiphop music.
>what is techno without its imagery and social impact
Techno music.
>what is metal without its imagery and social impact
Metal music.
>what is what is pop without its imagery and social impact
Popular music.

>Imagery is important in any type of music.
To anyone who doesn't care about music beyond a social aspect of it sure. Jazz has value outside whatever social bullshit you ascribe to it. Everything else you listed there is total shit, including modern metal.

It must fucking sucks having a one dimensional point of view about things like you do. Do you also view relationships as just a mere tool for reproduction?

bruh listen to sabotage and tell me that motorhead didnt copy sabbath too lol

>To anyone who doesn't care about music beyond a social aspect of it sure.
People who view music as "just" music or as "just" a social stance are literal NPCs. I highly suspect you're a genre tourist.

Do you watch music and read music without listening to it?

No and that's the point. Do you completely disregard the lyrics and the people behind the music? If you've ever searched to see what an artist or band looks like you're a hypocrite.

>take away all the context of music and all you're left with are genre classifications
Wew lad

>People who view music as "just" music are literal NPCs
People who view soccer as "just" soccer are literal NPCs.
People who view electric fans as "just" electric fans are literal NPCs.

>If you've ever searched to see what an artist or band looks like you're a hypocrite.
No I'm not, because the artist or band is not music. Looking up what they look like has no impact on the music or my enjoyment of the music.

Yeah bro haha can't appreciate something for just what it is without social signalling and trying to push it as part of your social capital? Haha, you're such an NPC!

Lyrics are a part of the music, they're being sung.

>lyrics == vocals
Peak retard

>thread going well
>autistic schizos jump in and shit all over it
every fucking time

You are retarded nihilist shitposter.
Are Teitanblood, Death Worship, Damaar, Bone Awl, Volahn, Grinning Death Head, Ignivomous, Black Cilice, Folteraar, Obliteration, Sadism, Blasphamagoatachrist, Caveman Cult not any good?
Why are you in this thread?

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the lyrics are inextricably married to the music
you won't ever hear a death metal song about candy and unicorns

No, lyrics are not a a part of music in the slightest; the voice is. You do not need comprehensible words sung in language to be a good vocalist.

There's more depth to these than just what they are on the surface. You prove me right if anything.
You're lying to yourself then. If you think it doesn't have an impact on you, even if merely infinitesimal, you are just deluded.
You can, but saying it doesn't have somwhat of an impact on you is hypocrisy, which has been my point from the beginning.

>the lyrics are inextricably married to the music
>you won't ever hear a death metal song about candy and unicorns
Pioneering death metal bands admitted that their lyrics were mostly written as an afterthought after they already wrote their music, and that the lyrics were so extreme because they doubt anybody could understand it.

So what? They're still there.

Why did they bother to write lyrics at all if it's not important to the writing process?

Because they need the music to sell and since most casual listeners of music don't actually care for music and thus focus primarily on lyrics, they put them in.

ebin
kill yourself and stop derailing threads

As an afterthought. You could remove the lyrics and just have the vocalist growling and grunting nonsense and the song would still be the same.

This song has lyrics too. Explain to me how lyrics are remotely important to the song on a musical level.
youtube.com/watch?v=UvOeW9rCODU

cope

So you're telling me that bands like Sarcofago and Blasphemy only ever added lyrics because they were trying to appeal to the most casual listeners? lol

>gets in a conversation that he himself keeps pushing onwards
>tries to argue but fails to make a point
>S-STOP DERAILING
Mutilate your own dick and choke on it.

all metal fans are casual listeners of music

They said it themselves.
>and that the lyrics were so extreme because they doubt anybody could understand it.
The idea was that it was for fun. Lyrics were an afterthought in death metal and the joke was having really extreme, edgy lyrics while the the vocals were too harsh to really be comprehensible. A lot of these bands had already written how their songs should be sung before they even started writing lyrics.

The guy you're responding to isn't me.

And here you are, proving the opposite party right by not only judging the culture outside of music, but taking side by calling an entire fanbase casual listeners. Bravo.

take your meds schizo

>schizo
Are you telling me you're me? That I have been arguing with myself this whole time? You wouldn't be throwing around words you don't know the meaning of, would you?