Madvillainy vs Piñata: The Debate

madvillainy

pinata has some really boring songs and lyrics

Yea, give me a legit reason instead of posting dumb meme replies.

>Not rating Robes, Knicks, Watts & Uno

edge towards pinata but my favorite song between each album is operation lifesaver
name them

Pinata's the better album. For all the strong points of Madvillainy, the album sounds choppy pieced together and rushed out. DOOM is absent for about a third of the album's runtime, causing Madlib to have to piece the whole thing together with half baked instrumental pieces and mediocre guest appearances. Even on tracks where DOOM is spitting, they end with 30 second skits collaged together that just ruin the flow of the album musically.

There are a few unwelcome skits on Pinata, but for the most part, the album flows together pretty consistently, showcasing a rapper that can provide a personal perspective, tell a story, or just spit hard bars. And the guest appearances on Pinata are usually fucking great - Scarface, Raekwon, Earl Sweatshirt. Last point, Freddie Gibbs knows how to craft an album from a rapping standpoint. MF DOOM just knows how to rap.

awww wittle baby doesn't have an answer so has to resort to a shit reply while sweating and shitting his diaper furiously XD

I’m not answering in your format because I think it’s not so black and white as those categories would make it seem but

>better record: Madvillainy
>better beats, rapping, and atmosphere: Piñata

Brevity counts for something though, and this is where Madvillainy shines. It’s significantly shorter, yet feels every but as cohesive and monumental, even though it doesn’t construct a world and create specific images the way Piñata does. The ass end of Piñata also drags a tiny bit in comparison to the first 2/3.

>>Which has the best production?
For me it's a tie. When you have All Caps, Eye, Accordion, Rhinestone Cowboy on one side and Thuggin, Robes, Broken and Knicks, it's pretty much impossible to say one is better than the other. I probably missed some but these are the first that comes in my mind when it comes to production for these two.
>>Which has the best lyrics?
Madvillainy.
>Inb4 Doritos Cheetos
Yeah but have you listened to Figaro, Accordion & Rhinestone Cowboy?
>>Which has the best replay value when listening the album as from first to last track?
Since Madvillainy is shorter I'd say Madvillainy but Piñata has some very good track you want to Relisten. Is say Piñata is better individually for replay value.

So basically it would be for me 51/49 for Madvillainy. So pretty close.

I agree. For some reason, all of DOOM's best projects are paced like shit (Madvillainy, Mm.. Food, Take Me To Your Leader). It's not actually that big of a deal, but it sticks out an an issue compared to Freddie's albums.

as an*

This, but unironically.

Piñata
Madvillainy

Piñata
Piñata wins.

*Blocks your path*
youtu.be/UvC--2olDns

You know what, man, I actually like MM.. Food and Take me to Your Leader more than Madvillainy. I think Madvillainy has better high points, but it's just got too many lows to ignore.

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say Take Me to Your Leader and Mm.. Food are paced like shit, but then again, I only listened to them a few times, and I do get what you mean with the pacing issues. Fuck it. They're good records anyways.

Madvillainy is overrated by wannabe hipsters & upper class white kids who just got into rap.

To understand why DOOM’s shit is paced like garbage (and why it’s been terrible for 15 years, even), you need to be a bit more intimately familiar with 90s East Coast underground rap. I’m not talking about the seminal records you still see people referencing, I mean the earliest waves of “woke” boom bap coming off the tail of the jazz rap of the early 90s, going through to the turn of the century. Shit that got put out on 12”s in blank white sleeves. It’s a much different approach to hip hop that’s less focused on making an “artistic statement”, and more about being good at rapping and also knowing big words and being kinda woke. This is the scene DOOM really comes from, and you’ll note that his best projects are with collaborators outside this sphere.

Basically, DOOM is stretch & bobito shit evolved just enough to be palatable to people outside those die-hard oldhead circles

tmtyl is his best album for sure

Examples? I'm thinking up shit like Juggaknots, but that can't be right, because Juggaknots was fucking awesome.

Juggaknots is right on the money actually, and agreed they are sick. I’m not knocking the style but it’s not made with a concrete aesthetic vision or whatever, it’s 100% about rapping. It’s just very fiercely anti-commercial in its presentation, and that’s fine, but it’s the reason why DOOM’s track sequencing can seem wonky to someone not super into that shit; because it is, because it’s not given much thought beyond the bare minimum, because that kind of thing isn’t the point.

Another good example

youtu.be/9UXZkPyGvq8

Based, Next Levels is one of his greatest tracks too. Also Monster Zero is one of his most deep songs ever made. He made a great choice of the voice clips and how he represents Ghidorah and underground music/mainstream

>it’s the reason why DOOM’s track sequencing can seem wonky to someone not super into that shit; because it is, because it’s not given much thought beyond the bare minimum, because that kind of thing isn’t the point.

OK, yeah. I 100% get what you're saying, and you're dead on. It's actually a pretty apt description.

Also, I'm about a minute into the first track on that album you posted. The beat is on point, but this rapper kind of sucks.