Whoa engineers are even more useless to society than landlords...

You obviously live in a place with shitty roads and think that’s how it is everywhere. As a whole, modern society roads are far greater and more widespread than what was in Ancient Rome. You probably hit a pit hole and completed about how shitty roads are. Look at google earth and look how fucking massive and widespread roads in America are. Or any white country for that matter. Rome doesn’t have jack shit on our modern day infrastructure. Fucking dolt.

Good choice, I hate politics. You dont have any say, all you can do is get angery

Yea, because 10 20 ton trucks an hour is the same thing as a 500kg horse every day

Thanks capitalism

I'm an old man/engineer and I don't really get angry anymore. I did when I was your age. Did you have an actual question about the engineering profession or the need engineering fulfills in society?

Engineers can pretty much design a road, the problem is with the builders, who will make the road from the shittiest and cheapest material they can find. If done normally, they don't look like that.

You can make the road like the romans did, it just doesn't play nice with wheeled vehicles and it's WAY WAY more expensive to build because your labor costs are going to go through the roof.

Go drive a car on an ancient roman road and tell us how that works out for you.

Let a bunch of cars drive on some ancient roman roads and see how much longer they last.

Fucking imbecile.

Yes because there weren't any engineers back then... Engineering, Medicine and other health related areas like nursing and physiotherapy, Hard Sciences and possibly Law are the only respectable degrees... everything else is a soft kill or a hobby

the communists loved engineers. engineering and science was heavily stressed in the Russian educational system

this guy wants to build a road with hand cut rocks. might as well carry water from a well and piss on indoor plumbing.

Of course, because a Roman stone aquaduct and the Brooklyn Bridge are entirely the same animal.
Apples to apples.

There also wasn't much of a free market back then. Skilled workers weren't exactly slaves, but if a lord told you to do something, you had little choice. If you fucked up, it probably meant your head.

How would you feel if the trades were absorbed by the military as some sort of civil maintenance branch that offered free school in exchange for service repairing and enhancing our infrastructure?

Capitalism is what kneecaps engineering because workers are forced to operate by cost over quality.

So it really depends on what field of engineering you're referring to. For infrastructure, maybe, although our current Army Corps of Engineers isn't the most efficient and thus expensive in cost and time. Things like research engineering, where I work, I think it would stifle innovation and weigh it down with bureaucracy.

you're getting engineering mixed up with business. engineers typically don't put cost over quality as they take pride in their work. they use engineering to give you a safe product for the price you're willing to pay. when a bridge fails, there's a certified engineer who's name is associated with it - no one wants that.

i make medical devices, right now with the covid pandemic this is an area I'm seeing a lot of push. the public and businesses want us to modify our product to fit a demand - however the safety involved with these modifications haven't been tested so the engineers are saying "wait until we can prove what you want is safe and effective".

Semi trailers weigh probably 100x as much as the heaviest horse drawn carriage.

*laughs in 6 figure paycheck*

stay mad

you're giving me a horse sized semi

Civil engineers specifically design to meet the minimum requirement by specifications unless engineering judgement suggests a superior alternative.

How can we eliminate profit motive in order to do a good job? Who is trustworthy and how do we make it better? I hate doing bad work against my will because of this nonsense.

Resources are scarce. Maybe it's better to build a road to last 50 years with maintenance, rather than 1000 years.

No it isn't. The problem is capitalism. The roads, like everything, are designed to die to feed jobs.

>a safe product for the price you're willing to pay
That's cost over quality.

The minimum requirements have factors of safety built into them. I could make a house with walls that are 3 feet thick but why? Unless the need supports it, I'd only be wasting resources for other houses and the time of the craftsmen. If you want to make efficient use of the resources and labor to spread it out equally among the people - it requires engineering.

>OP

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ITT: sub-80 comunoids pissed at everyone with a real degree.
Good luck on getting a job with your gender studies degree and butchered genitalia, guess society failed for you huh?

It's cost that's the problem, not the engineering.

Engineers could design a road or other structure that would last just as well, if not better, than ancient tech. But it would cost a fuck ton, just like it did back then (with respect to scale). You could get away with that when A. You were a dictatorship/empire/kingdom and didn't have to worry about elections, and B. That was your only option, and you needed a damn road.

With concerns about cost for all the various reasons, engineers were then asked to come up with methods that were less expensive. And they did, but the balance is that it's not as durable. This is an accepted consequence when you use these methods. The only fault of engineers is doing what they were asked.

You mean communism? Everything would go to shit because there is little motivation when there are no free market pressures. Hence why shit broke down all the time in Russia, including Chernobyl.

>road is broken, fuck capitalism and sheeit
Most roads and bridges are built using your taxes, so unless you wanna pay a fuckton more, stfu

Unfortunately it comes down to the people. The good ones aren't motivated by profit or recognition. You need to create a system that fosters that mentality and approach. I've worked at companies that push bad work to meet a timeline. I always hold my ground with well justified arguments but in the end I've had to quite a few companies.

There are always expensive options you fucking tard. Just because Toyotas exist doesn't mean you can't buy a Bentley.

If you're on a fixed income and come into buy a car - I can sell you a BMW and put you on loan but if you only need a Nissan, I'm fleecing you. Cost over quality?

I haven't met an engineer that can read a tape measure. And I've been involved in dozens of projects where we have had to explain to them that their drawings may as well be an mc Escher painting and will never work. Engineering is like medicine, most get into it for the money and are morons while the good ones are hard to find.

Even commies try to save a buck wherever they can, because, you know, resources aren't infinite

>Assuming ancient society didn't have engineers

For an engineer to be good he has to not care about money? What fucking world do you live in?

implying roads are built with ngineers, and not some pleb common work force

>feed jobs
Isn't that a good thing then? Lower unemployment

Most public sector engineers are a joke. Glorified project managers that out source their actual jobs to 3rd party vendors. Source audited government agencies for 4 years and it sucked the entire time. Mouth breathers every where.

I didn't say "not care" I said "not motivated". I've seen a ton of engineers fall into the pockets of a businesses because of title and money. Once you care about money more than quality the business owns you.

Did those old roads have a million tons traversing them every day at high speed, with high friction, high surface area galvanized rubber tire treads rolling over them?

Ahh the Romans, famous for their lack of engineers

Ofc it is, you don't buy some super expensive tool when an affordable one can do all you need it to do, I don't buy a 100$ snap-on screwdriver if I'll use it 3-4 times a year, I buy a 12$ one at harbor freight

I fucking can’t stand it when there’s people different from me in the world.

this proves that anprims and ancaps have the highest iq
where we're going, we dont need roads

Yeah but it depends on the clients needs. Let's say you build a car that's as fast as possible, no matter the cost, or you can build a car that's as affordable as possible, those are 2 possible products

there are many different sectors of engineering and the people in charge do not know how to do things correctly all they really care about is it holds for the time being and its cheap also they had alot more time on there hands as they couldnt go and watch tv or anything they had to do something to pass the days aswell as it may have been the only way they could get food or most were slaves and they were made from pure stone which is amazing concrete is shite its very brittle as its not using its strongest property ie try break a huge stone its hard to do while smash the stone into very small pieces then glue it back together then you can rip it apart aswell also because its in very fine particles water and other impurities can enter it pure stone is well pure stone takes a long time fore water running against it constently to shave of abit of the outer layer tine bit of water destroyes cement why we use it fuck knows im not a road worker

im not great at writing scentences

Same

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>speaks as if they could ever get a degree...

Marx was a bullshitter
His real name was Kissel Mordekay.
Google it
He was just another puppet for the Elite

Not an engineer, but a couple of friends went that route.

From what I understand, you aren't wrong that they are somewhat middlemen, but they design a road based on the tight purses of higher ups who wan't an indestructible road built from the cheapest materials available and are unwilling to spend for anything remotely good. Then when everything is finally figured out, a bunch of monkeys who couldn't get a GED are tasked with putting the whole thing together.

Basically.
>Make me a recipe for filet mignon from wagu beef on a bed of gold leafs
>Make sure the end result costs less $1.50 a plate
>Then have Cleatus over there from the trailer park prepare and cook it.

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This isn't even bait. You literally threw the whole fishing rod in the water. Is everyone replying a troll?

The more I rad about communism, the more I find out about jews. What a weird coincidence.