Why do you care about children? At the end of the day, it's dust to dust, so why ruin your life to such an extent?

So you can fornicate with them

relatable. i'm 39. All of my friends that have kids look twice their age, I assume from all the stress taking it's toll. sometimes they look at my life, with my lack of responsibilites and direction and say "so what the fuck are you doing with your life?" like they feel sorry me. And I can't help but laugh to myself and think, "Fuck, what the fuck do YOU do to YOURS?"

I literally spend most of my time doing whatever the hell I feel like and I'd never trade that just to create another devourer of space.

STOP that Alabama music right there.

so they can change the world

>generic normalfag joke

to become immortal through my offspring

That doesn't even make any sense. Creating life is the most cruel act imaginable. We have kids precisely because we're selfish.

>I had done sex and drugs and life and running a business and all that shit
What did you actually do? What skills do you possess? I have the feeling that people who actually do stuff don't really care much about children.

More about the face, for me.

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god you're such a sad edgy faggot
chin up dude.

>I guess that's another question, and I realize people are going to call me a jew over this or whatever, but why do you care about how many babies are born?

I care in the negative. Too many fucking people on this planet. I want less breeders of all races.

I wish we could institute mass sterilization. You have to have a fucking license to drive, own a gun, a business, etc...but to create a new life, something with far more consequence, you don't have to prove you're responsible at all. Just have at it, plop another breathing meatsack out of your fuckhole, lady. 2, 3? Why not half a dozen, the more the merrier.

Fuck this speicies, I swear. But use protection if you do.

>to become immortal
You won't.

You won't be here to see that, so inconsequential.

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you only read part of my sentence. cherry pick too good
my kids will have me in them. they live.

Because DNA is cool and I want to see what kind of children me and my hot wife are going to make. Plus, I have a natural instinct to breed that bitch every day. Procreation is embedded into most of us. I’ve seen people thrive and live their dreams and passions even with children, crazy I know. It’s possible though G. Might not be for everyone.

How am I edgy, what? Care to elaborate?

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>That doesn't even make any sense. Creating life is the most cruel act imaginable. We have kids precisely because we're selfish.

Antinatalist dubs for the win!

Birth inevitably creates suffering. How the fuck do you know your kid will like life and not cause havoc while doing so? Dahmer had loving parents.

"Creating life is the most cruel act imaginable"
do you hear yourself right now? you sound like such a sappy edge lord

Don't and wont.

I never meant to have kids and yes they are burdensome sometimes but...theres a joy and pride I find in them. And to be honest I wasnt doing anything really meaningful beforehand anyway. I mean it's not like I was gonna solve any world problems or be the first man in a warp-drive craft so... yeah popping out a couple of puppies with the potential to make the world a better place was my contribution.
>You're welcome.

nah, he sounds like someone who can logic. read up sparky: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism

also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_utilitarianism

Get you some ethics, cowboy.

Life tries to keep going in any way it can. That's why being a kissless virgin or thinking of suicidal thoughts are frowned upon because they go against the drive of life. It makes sense anyway.

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THAT's what you see as edgy? Lemme tell you, it isn't a new, or a controversial idea.

>Antinatalist
Honestly, I don't really care that much either way, I just wonder what's the end goal of people who like to belittle others for not having / wanting any children, that's all.

>I’ve seen people thrive and live their dreams and passions even with children, crazy I know.
Yeah, if you don't have to take care of the kid, who cares. That's not what I'm talking about, though.

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what kind of miserable life have you had where you've only "suffered"?
i assume your choice wont be having kids and im glad you wont be contributing to the gene pool

Antinatalism is just defeatist nihilism. It's literally the ideology of "I'm a sad sack of shit".

I agree. I have a son, and another kid on the way. I love my son more than anything. No matter what happens in my life, being with him is amazing. I love watching grow and learn.

i assume youve made this thread bc your family isn't happy that you've decided to not have kids. i bet outside of the family no one gives a shit

Yeah ok, you sound depressed. Like you need to convince others you're having fun.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting kids, but to say having kids is inherently "the cruelest thing imaginable" just makes it sound like you have some unresolved problems you need to address.

this

when did I say i've "only" suffered?

Reading comprehension, Chachi. I'm quite happy about, say, 75% of the time. Hasn't always been that way though. And if you know a lifeform that has never suffered, which is what my statment actually implied (that you will inevitable suffer somewhat) well I'd like to meet it.

There was a point in my life, childhood specifically, where I was miserable 98% of the time. Now, if I had the wherewithal to kill myself (it just isn't in my programming) I probably would to avoid future suffering...even with my current batting average in positive numbers. Because for one, it is my argument that negative experience resonates louder than positive. I'd happily forsake future pleasure to avoid future pain.

Understand?

But also, as an aside, again, TOO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE. Human pollution, everywhere.

exactly the same for me. friends with kids will wake up at 5, run kid related errands all have, have zero weekend, kids appointments ect. they act like i am an irresponsible child because I have lots of hobbies and and not forced to do things I dont find enjoyable. As if youre a valid member of society only if youre an employee in your own life.

I'm pretty happy actually. But part of that comes from not caring, and not being "attached" to life, per se. No little shitsacks running around to worry about.

i never said lifeforms never suffered. you sound like a sad nihilistic sack.

its called growing the fuck up and making something of yourself. you will suffer regardless but find your own joy.

yeah i agree theres too many people, but humans have always been very innovative and will find ways to survive.

there is suffering but there is also joy. fortunately for the rest of us your sad loser genes wont be joining the gene pool of the future.

i was raised in the jehovah witness cult. my childhood was just a gauntlet of misery. now that im in my 30s I collect action figures, have drunken nerf fights with my friends, snowboard, lift. play in a band, basically have fun all the time. making sure I get all the things I missed just like I said I would. im still responsible and work hard but I will never create a child if I dont know what its like to be one. party till I die.

>i bet outside of the family no one gives a shit
Are you actually serious? If you're not in a relationship as an adult, you get BOMBARDED with the topic from both family and friends.

The other person already made this pretty clear, but let me just break it down for you: things which do not exist don't have to deal with
- Disease
- Hunger
- Loss
- Fear
- Despair
- Conflict
- Mutilation
- Cold

>There's also joy
You're completely missing the point, things which do not exist do not crave happiness. But lets go with your outlook, and I'll ask you this: from all the beings that were born on our planet, how many of them would you say were more happy than they were miserable?

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she looks hot

>i never said lifeforms never suffered.

>what kind of miserable life have you had where you've only "suffered"?

I know. You said, that I said, they 'only' suffer. See? I did not in fact say or imply that.

>you sound like a sad nihilistic sack.
Nihilism, and more to the point, egoism, is where the wellspring of my happiness shoots forth from. If you really think not giving a fuck about a whole lot of shit isn't a whole lot of fun, then boy, you just aren't very imaginative.

> fortunately for the rest of us your sad loser genes wont be joining the gene pool of the future.

I agree, it is quite fortunate for you. If I made a kid the little fucker would probably be a full blown sociopath, drowning his playmates in the kiddie pool, especially with a father who doesn't want his ass. But honestly even that is too rose colored a picture because it actually sounds interesting to me, just a bit anyway, to see what a little edgefag I could breed just for the holy hell of it.

Too much work though. I forecast diminishing returns. So it looks like you and I both get to be satisfied with my choice. You're welcome.

it really isn't. it's best expressed in that Negative Utilitarianism section.

Also, who the fuck is defeating what? As far as I'm concerned, I've opted out of the game! I CAN'T lose.

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not all beings can even experience "happiness" bc they dont have sophisticated enough wiring to do so. maybe there are more that are "miserable" but who gives a shit.

i thought we were only talking humans. obviously humans or not humans, the whole point is to survive and pass on your genes. though humans are obviously more complicated, the point still stands. yeah obviously humans have a lot of shit to deal with, but thats why we work through these problems to make life more bearable.

you know evolutionary biology? when we do work through these problems, our brains make happy chemicals because we have done something to contribute to our survival and our group survival (and with the passing on of our genes if not, our kin's genes).

>implying I will live to reach that state
Just before I hit the wall, a bullet will go through my skull.

seriously. if anything, I'm offended at the pity when I'm the one who pities them.

as far as blah blah blah family enriches you etc, to me it's bullshit. picket fences, wives, and 2.5 children are nothing but a refuge from the self. a way of avoiding being actually naked and alone with what you are as a singular human. it's busywork to avoid introspection. Because introspection can be scary.

>i thought we were only talking humans.
The point still stands if we're only talking about humans, and no, I wasn't just talking about humans. Creating things that can feel pain is inherently immoral.

>you know evolutionary biology?
The concept of evolution is something I hold very near. Yes, I know evolutionary biology, and that has nothing to do with my point. As for the natural desire to breed, we've reached a point where our genes are crafty enough to consider themselves, so even if your endgoal is to maximize happiness, there are better ways to do so.

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>>y "busy work to avoid introspection"

hell yes, they are completely frantic and never seem like it leads to anything but keeping their heads above water and the child from not having "as good a life" as the other shitheads its in ballet class with.

really surprised none of us arguing against babies haven't been accused of having big noses yet. is Yas Forums asleep?

Creating "things" that not only can feel pain but also happiness. Raise the kid to be a strong functioning member of society and protect him/her. If you've done what you can and your genes have done what they can, then they most likely will do well than not.

If you know evolutionary biology, then you'd wouldn't have asked the first question in the thread: "Why do you care about children?"

I find it very ironic that people who often spew "just improve yourself and go start a family" stuff, are the people who suck at actually looking within and meaningfully improving themselves.

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i'm sorry to hear that, user. I was raised in a violent shithole and had a shitty time of being a kid myself. but as far as I'm concerned I'm living my second childhood now and I love it.

this is very true....it's part of the Western Christian mindset. You'll notice all the morality revolves around "how is everyone ELSE behaving? are we sure that THEY are living morally and are good upstanding citizens?"

Eastern religions/morality, some strains anyway, often focus much more on the self, "How am I internally?" Schopenhauer and Alan Watts tried to bring some of that based thinking over here...if only it had taken root more.

>Creating "things" that not only can feel pain but also happiness.
Again, missing the point. Things which don't exist don't crave happiness. It'd be the equivalent of me locking you up in my basement and going "yes, you'll feel sad, but you'll also feel good sometimes because I'll give you tasty things to eat". The imorality comes from the lack of choice I'd be giving you.

Even if we push this further, if we're talking about life as an evolutionary entity, life IS drive, and drive IS, literally, suffering.

>then they most likely will do well than not.
So you actually believe there's more happiness than sadness in the world? I got news for you, bud, only about 40% of men ever get to reproduce.

>If you know evolutionary biology, then you'd wouldn't have asked the first question in the thread: "Why do you care about children?"
>As for the natural desire to breed, we've reached a point where our genes are crafty enough to consider themselves, so even if your endgoal is to maximize happiness, there are better ways to do so.
You're talking as if people are going "oh, I care about children because genes". Ultimately that's the answer, but I am clearly looking for each persons emotional take on it.

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>Creating things that can feel pain is inherently immoral.

Not creating something that can feel pleasure is immoral

fuckin right user, its so much fucking fun. ocasionally my friends with kids come over for an hour or so to play guitars or light off fireworks but its only an hour at best before the wife calls them screaming at them to come home and do some task. RIP friends

>life IS drive, and drive IS, literally, suffering.
Drive is exhilarating. Drive is purpose. Drive is fulfillment.

Nietzche

why does suffering matter? in 2000 years your suffering doesnt make a fucking difference. whether or not you had kids, however will.

>Not creating something that can feel pleasure is immoral
that's like saying if I don't jack off 24/7 it's immoral because less orgasms are happening.

Your shit don't compute, nigger. In the words of Marla Daniels from The Wire (the best TV show in history): "You cannot LOSE if you do not PLAY."

You, by breeding, are creating a lifeform that can only "opt-out" of a life, a life that it may very well despise, by committing suicide. And given that said lifeform is going to be burdened with wiring that make executing that command against it's programming, it's pretty fucked up.

You can't consent to being born. It is FORCED on you. You are literally creating a life that might hate living, so you might be fucking happier. That is selfish as all hell.

>dust to dust
you are supposed to worship the kike on a stick and dont think
OR
think without worshiping the kike on a stick.

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aw who hurt u buddy

>why does suffering matter?
why does happiness matter? why does anything matter? oooooowwweeee, where are we now user!? we're lost! adrift in the endless existential sea.....