I'm sorry, how exactly was Ulfric Stormcloak in the wrong...

I'm sorry, how exactly was Ulfric Stormcloak in the wrong? The Empire had been rendered useless cuckolds to the Aldmeri Dominion to the point of outlawing the worship of Talos, a deity that literally exists. Why should the sons and daughters of Skyrim bleed and die on distant battlefields for no reason other than to help further the cause of elven superiority? If you sided with the empire, you're a fuckin idiot.

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But the empire is the only thing keeping the filthy elves from invading skyrim. Without the protection of the white gold concordat the dominion would attempt to conquer skyrim while at the same time the empire would try to reassert its dominance. Ulfric would be fighting two wars at once. Additionally, the full might of the empire could only bring the dominion to a stalemate. If both the dominion and empire invaded skyrim it would be over in seconds, and would likely set skyrim up as the next battleground of faggot elves vs prissy roman cucks. While skyrim deserves freedom of religion its worth noting that no one is safe from the aldmeri dominion, and breaking off from the empire just paints a target on your back.

If I recall, Ulfric killed the high king with a shout? How was he able to learn how to shout? The Greybeards didn't teach him right? As is they barely associated themselves with anybody, so how was he able to learn how to use shouts?

As a boy, Ulfric was chosen by the Greybeards to study with them at High Hrothgar. He trained with them for almost ten years and developed his skills in the Way of the Voice. He was to become a Greybeard himself, but his life took a different path when the Great War began in 4E 171

The gaybeards did teach ulfric. They take disciples occasionally. How else do you think the order survived since the rebellion against the dragons?

Doesn't it mean he was the real Dragonborn?

That’s assuming that the civil war is still going on if the aldmeri dominion invades skyrim which isnt gonna be cannon. Hammerfell openly denied the contract and got invaded by the elves but it ended in a ceasefire, and the redguards are a bunch of pussy fags. Assuming ulfric won the war against the empire, skyrim can surly defeat the dominion

Ulfric was "in the wrong" because he alienated his potential allies (whiterun) with his aggressive stance. He was a "kneel to me or die" tyrant. Nords who were sympathetic to his cause were pushed aside because of their own independent streaks. He's just another dime a dozen charismatic cult of personality leader. As soon as Ulfric died his little kingdom would fall apart. He was a destabilizing force in an already destabilized region.

He knows the way of the voice but can't absorb dragon souls. Though he's never killed a dragon so who knows.

There were many Dragonborn, at some points there were many, sometimes only one, sometimes none. They arose in times when needed.

No, its possible to learn the voice through training. Which is what he did. The DB has an inherent skill at it. Ulfric can't eat dragon souls.

Anyone can study the way of the voice. Only an actual Dragonborn is granted a dragon's soul by Akotosh and therefore can harness the voice to the fullest of its abilities. Ulfric was highly skilled but he was very limited by his birth.

Dude yes. Teach politics through Skyrim. Liberals can't handle this!!

Nah, he knocked him down with a shout but killed him with a sword. He tells you if you ask him about it. And he did study with the greybeards for a while, he just didn't buy into their hermit lifestyle.

Because Forsworn. The nords claim to Skyrim is that they stole it from the Forsworn and Snow Elves. The Forsworn are coming from exactly the same mentality as Ulfric is when they try to reclaim their ancestral homeland and he does a lot worse than just outlaw their favorite god. Also treating all the non-human races like shit doesn't score him any points either. All the Argonians are cool as fuck except for those two assholes in Solitude that want you to sink the ship, but plenty of the nords are almost as smug as the Thalmor. Sure, you can get Galmar to agree to the "Skyrim is home to more than just Nords" dialogue, but Ulfric never does anything about the living conditions of the Dunmer or Argonians in Windhelm.

And, as pointed out it's actually in the Thalmor's best interest for Skyrim to be weakened by the civil war. He's not only a hypocrite, but his actions are in everyone's worst interest in the long term.

How? The empire couldn't defeat the dominion with the combined power of the empire with Skyrim. Now that the Empire and Skyrim wasted valuable resources and men on each other they are much more limited in fighting the dominion. Which Tulius said was their obviously their plan in either ending, and is why the dominion said supported the civil war.

Balgruuf was a staunch supporter of the empire regardless of Ulfric's actions. Whiterun is an ancient seat of power propagated by imperial support. Granted, Ulfric's murder of Torygg is /technically/ allowed as a form of trial by combat, he did still murder a child. A child who was being molded into a Elven cumsponge, mind you.

Because high elves are literal golden gods you weak pathetic cuck.

Don't forget the Dark Brotherhood kills the Emperor also. The Empire is pretty well fucked. What's even worse is that if you join the Blades by killing Paarthurnax, you probably disabled the Snow Tower which is one of the Thalmor's main objectives in Skyrim. That leaves only two or three towers between the Thalmor and their goal of unmaking the physical world.

This games was fucking awful generic thrash

Except it's not your fight when you play the game. You happened to get caught up in the middle of some bullshit that you had 0 business being a part of and frankly, fuck both sides.
The empire is a piece of shit for wanting to execute a perfect stranger but I'll side with them because I never would've had my head on that block if the Stormcloaks got over their almighty babydick ego sooner.

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>The empire couldn't defeat the dominion with the combined power of the empire with Skyrim
That's the thing, though. The entire reason the Thalmor have been sowing discord between Cyrodill and Skyrim is because they WANT the empire weak. They were humiliated during the siege of the imperial city during the great war and they know the only way to exert dominance is to weaken the power of the empire from within because the empire almost beat them last time. Hence the stalemate and the empire agreeing to the concessions of the white gold concordant to stop the blood shed. The empire should have pressed their advantage, imo.

Now that i think about it the lore is so fucked up. Like how are you gonna tell me the reguards fended off the dominion but the entire combined empire couldnt? Like what the fuck

The moral of that story is no body wants a stinky island full of giant flying fleas that is about to erupt.

The Forsworn were some edgy deadranigger tryhards that hated imperial rule. They absolutely would have allied with Ulfric against imperial control.

Ulfric himself drove them out of Markarth right after the Great War.

ulfric literally genocied them

>with the combined power of the empire with Skyrim.
The empire by that time was severely weakened. The Black marsh and Morrowind had essentially "broken away" during the oblivion crisis.

True. And even with his massacering of innocent civilians, the Forsworn have very much adopted the same tactics in their attempts to liberate the Reach from the hostile rule of the empire. I think they would probably make concessions to Ulfric if it meant that cyrodill and the elves would never darken another doorway in the Reach.

>frankly, fuck both sides.
This TBH. Who actually does the army quests? The game kinda screws you over, by all rights the DB should be taking over, given he's Skyrim Jesus.

The Forsworn aren't fighting the Elves, they're fighting the Nords. They want Nords off their land.

You're nuts, did you not do the forsworn quest in Markarth? The foresworn HATE the Nords. More than elves or the empire.

While his cause was just, he was more concerned about grabbing power than forming a united front against the Aldmeri.

That's Bethesda's fault for completely neutering the Civil War quest line. There's enough cut content on the fucking disk to comprise an entire game in itself.

>That's Bethesda's fault for completely neutering the Civil War quest line
Agreed. Thank god for the modding community, actually giving the players what they want. The CW quests are so bland and uninteresting. I hate the fact that one of the slow time shouts is gated behind that stupid quest chain.

Full disclosure I avoid Markarth like the plague. I'm was going from memory. I just assumed they were antimperial zealots. Hating the nords seems odd seeing as pretty much everyone in the province is descended from the first men.

>. Hating the nords seems odd seeing as pretty much everyone in the province is descended from the first men.
The people in that area are Bretons. The decendants of Elves and Humans in high rock, not the Nords. I think that area was first part of High Rock, and the Nords just conquered it.

Because it would've been pointless.

Skyrim would've stood alone against both the Empire and the Dominion. And the Empire would've been weakened and less able to tear loose from and defeat the Dominion in the future.

Even if Ulfric won his little civil war, it would just mean Skyrim gets crushed even harder later on.

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>descended from the first men
That's the whole problem. The Nords invaded from Atmora, but the Reachmen were already there in the Reach. That's why they hate the Nords.

>comfy lore thread

Nice

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he was mostly interested in being High King

I've killed ulfric on all but one play-through.

The Skyrim Civil War is actually just an argument for accelerating things with the elves or not. Ultimately both sides of the civil war will lead to another Great War between the mer and men of Tamriel. If the Stormcloaks win, it will force the elves hand to start war before they’re actually prepared. This might give the nords the upper hand and ironically force them back into an alliance with the empire to defeat the knife eared freaks, while also unifying Skyrim and reinvigorating the College of Winterhold for help with the elven menace. But at the same time this could create a schism inside the empire itself, inspiring other nations to break away from the alliance and the corrupted state of the current empire. This would distract and divide the empires attention and might give the high elves the opportunity they’ve been waiting for.

If the empire wins the civil war, then the elves will continue their strategy of deception, corruption, and all around jewery to weaken the empire from the inside. This would, again, lead to a schism and division of the empire but at a much later time, except this time the elves are prepared and have plans, strategies, and contingencies for winning the war. The High King was aware of this, the emperor was aware of this, even Ulfric is aware of this. Canonically the empire has to win as it would make a much more interesting story compared to the Skyrim uprising.

Imagine bragging about being a Thalmor lapdog.

The Thalmor will just crush Skyrim once the Empire is gone. They could barely fend off the Thalmor when they had the whole Empire on their side. It’s either be cucks or die like a true son of Skyrim defending your homeland.

Imagine not getting to the cloud district very often.

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Every nord could wear their amulet of Talos and pray to the outlawed god and if Talos actually shows up the Thalmor are absolutely fucked. Why else do you think they outlawed his worship?

Oh shit, I forgot religion was actually real in Skyrim

All of you faggots forget this is a game, and in this specific game where these events take place there is somewhat of a fucking superhuman (you, yourself, the fucking dragonborn) that literally just mows down hundreds of enemies, imperials, stormcloaks, thalmor, undead, dragons and so on literally only to pick up one stupid little item for some cunt that sends you to pick it up. this repeats hundreds of times during your playthrough. Say if this dragonborn sides with the empire, he could go on a rampage and slaughter thalmor for the empire. If he sides with the stormcloaks he would push the empire out of skyrim and THEN go on said murderous rampage on the thalmor.
All of you saying the might of the thalmor would fuck up skyrim and the empire forgets that if we just drop the dragonborn nuke on the thalmor hiroshima it's gonna be fucking game over.

He wasn't entirely wrong he was just a power hungry racist asshole on the side. Talk to Tullius. He understands why the stormcloaks are doing what they're doing, and respects it to some degree. He believes though that he is acting in Skyrim best interests. That is why I always go imperial even though I personally believe in the stormcloaks cause.

If it were Ralof in charge rather than Ulfric I'd side with stormclaoks any time.

Ulfric was right.

Now that would have been a good DLC.

The DB isn't even from skyrim. You were crossing the border. ?

>Toggle god mode

Fite me now faggy elves

Ralof is based

That would be very convenient.

Also sounds like it's in no way guaranteed to happen.

ya gotta be a special kind of pussy to tgm

Skyrim was Empire for thousands of years. Some guy came and started a terrorist movement.

Good job falling for literal ISIS propaganda in a video game.

Because Talos is the replacement for Lorkan. The god of humans who created the physical universe and separated mortals from the gods. He essentially destroyed the old universe the Elves lived in and replaced it with the shitty mortal world filled with death. the Elves used to be literally Immortal and Lorkan ended it. To the elves, he's essentially Satan, the serpent, who tricked them out of paradise. In order to undo that, Talos has to go.

Nice theory but no one has ever sat down and played through the game for the first time and never died while completing every main quest. The dragon born is still mortal and falls prey to the folly of the player. The only actually immortal dragonborn is Miirak and you end up killing him. So fuck your dumb theory.

I fucking hated the whole "oh this guy is too important to kill" bullshit. FUCK THAT. Gimme the old Morrowind "kill everyone you see" shit. I wanna storm that Thalmor stronghold and just break those sluts in half.

Ralof is bro tier no doubt. If he had a bigger role in the Civil war quests I probably would side with the stormcloaks more.

> Talk to Tullius. He understands why the stormcloaks are doing what they're doing, and respects it to some degree.
Pretty sure that's why he chose Rikke as his second in command. She's a native nord who discretely still worships Talos as evidence by her little prayer after you kill Ulfric. Tullius is a master tactician who has lived a long life throughout the provinces of the empire.

essential npc's piss me off, I should have been able to kill and usurp any jarl.

Notice how everytime you die in the game you're loaded into a previous save where you aren't dead?
This isn't world of warcraft where it's canon that you can walk back to your corpse and resume where you died.
Your deaths in skyrim don't matter, ever noticed the guards all over the game has dialogue for almost everything that happens to you but never once speaks of your death even if you die hundreds of times?
It's a game, it's a continuous story if the dragonborns life and if you let the dragonborn die, you're just magically ported to the last place your character was saved ALIVE.
I didn't mean for it to be the typical theory/fanfic, i just stated the fact that it's a game where you play an unstoppable killing machine where you the player make the choices and the dragonborn just kills and never dies

More likely than you think. The DB could very well be mantling Talos, acting like his Avatar on Mundus. In TES if someone simply embodies a god, or powerful entity they can essentially Become that entity. That was actually how Talos became a God in the first place. He mantled the dead Lorkhan and took his place in the Pantheon. If the DB were to mantle Talos, then he would become Talos.

he was a jew pawn to sow division in the empire to weaken it for takeover

You need to learn about CHIM my man. The "player" powers, like saving, loading and pausing, are actual powers in TES cannon. People who've reached a certain state of existence, realizing that the world is a dream of the Godhead but not succumbing to the Zero Sum are able to manipulate the world in crazy powerful ways.

You're damn right you should have. Quest lines be damned.

PCs achieving CHIM isn't cannon though. There is always some in game source of their power. Except the hero of Kvatch... He was just overpowered for no fucking reason.

Kind of ironic the PC with no inherent power is the one that literally becomes a God.

Talos was not a Divine you fucking normies.

Talos achieved CHIM. That is not the same thing. You fucking retards always out yourself as not understanding the lore when you get butthurt "muh Talos worship".

Talos achieved CHIM.

Also, no, Ulfric Stormcloak did nothing wrong. He did not murder the high king. He CHALLENGED Torygg to combat, as per Skyrim tradition.

SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS

The Hero of Kvatch is likely a Shezzarine, who are like, Lorkhan avatars that randomly crop up. The PCs achieving CHIM isn't "canon" but the powers that are attributed to it are extremely reminiscent of the players abilities.

What's more the very concept of CHIM is that you realize the world isn't real. Its a "dream". If you realize the world is a dream you either A. Wake up, or Zero Sum. You cease to exist. or B. You seize control of the dream like a lucid dreamer. This is the means through which Vivec, The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur got their own god like powers.

You the player, are already in the supreme state of CHIM. You are already aware of the unreality of the reality and have god like powers as a result.

Except the dragonborn had no way of mangling Talos. You need some kind of connection such as Heart of Lorkhan or the Staff of Sheogorath to mantle. At best he might be able to mantle Akatosh as supposedly the blood of Akatosh runs through his veins, but Akatosh would have to be removed from the pantheon first like Lorkhan and (sort of) Sheogorath.