Can a capitalist society ever be an ethical/moral society?

Too bad you specialized in moving bits of paper around and sucking the cocks of anyone who had more bits of paper than you.

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It's interesting how the left always views labor as the worst most disgustingly low action a human can take, rather than the rewarding work that it is. Reminds me that most people who hold these views have never done a hard day's work in their life.

And that is why you will never be successful in a system that gives you every opportunity. You want to blame the system for being something it isn't, instead of just doing some work. Generally you'll need a better argument than some memes you share with all of Bernie's pals on Facebook.

Labour is GLORIOUS... just as long as *you* don't have to do it, right Ayn? You Randroids are as predictable as you are tedious.

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>gives you every opportunity
...by forcing you to suck the cock of those who monopolize ownership of the means of production. Get outta here, you bootlicking toady.

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And you can assume I think that... How? I worked in carpentry for years and value the skills and discipline I gained there tremendously. My father, who worked his way into management over a career, still enjoys wearing a tool belt. If we're going to resort to strawmanning I think I'll head out. Not a big surprise, generally you commu-cucks can't get past the opening volley before we get into fallacies. Read a book, and good luck supporting a system that's proven not to work. Hope it goes well for you.

As opposed to being told what, when, and how to work. Who's free again?

>muh NAP
"The worker's liberty is only a theoretical freedom. lacking any means for its possible realization. Consequently it is only a fictitious liberty, an utter falsehood. The truth is that the whole life of the worker is simply a continuous and dismaying succession of terms of serfdom -- voluntary from the juridical point of view but compulsory from an economic sense -- broken up by momentarily brief interludes of freedom accompanied by starvation; in other words, it is real slavery." -- Mikhail Bakunin

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You're petty good at presenting a point with no argument. Quotes are great and all but that quote gives no argument whatsoever, it just makes an assertion and doesn't prove it. Do you even read the shit you post?

go back to >>Yas Forums

...

>nanananana i can't hear you i know you are but what am i
It's pointless to argue with you Randroids. Your programming makes your evasion structures particularly high and thick. Usually some real-life experience will break them down after you've gotten raped in the asshole a few times by the glorious robber barons you worship.

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> morals can be bought
Welcome to capitalism

>Capitalism was invented as a means of aggregating wealth to create capital projects like highways and dams and factories
And you believe this why? There was no conspiratorial capitalist plan to overthrow some grand preexisting, universal economic system. No, it was the inevitable result of these industries. It sprung up to maximize efficiency, and under its reign the world has experienced the greatest, fastest technological boom of all time and previously unimaginable prosperity in the societies that have allowed it to take root. Even workers rights as you understand them exist because of capitalism. We upgraded from constant labor to the 5 day, eight hours a day work week because the auto industry figured out it made workers more efficient than just bleeding them dry. None of that can be said for something like communism.

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Point blank asked to solidify your argument and you dodge it with this bullshit. Who's evading again?

Let's say you fight your class war and you win. It won' be you reaping the benefits. It will bee the guy in charge of your local part cell.
You? You will be purged as "unreliable element"

All talk of collectivism and socialism is great, but the narrative is still being pushed by a new elite that will ride your coat-tails and discard you the moment it reaches its objective.

i'll pay for it

can any greed based system ever be morally good?

Wow, hard to believe an actual human being can be so utterly ass-backwards and brainwashed to believe something so nonsensical.

The fact is, if you read work by sociologists like Jared Diamond, humanity has been moving backwards since agrarianism. Hunter-gatherers spend 14 hours a week to support themselves. Medieval peasants got more days off work than modern blue collar workers, and women actually spend *more* hours on housework today than they did at the end of the 19th century despite 125 years of electric irons and washing machines.

But I know from long experience this is pointless. You'll range freely over every cognitive bias and logical fallacy known to humanity to praise the weight and size of your chains.

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For the sake of the argument, how do you manage to avoid the trappings of capitalist society? Not trolling, honestly curious.

This.

I know perfectly well that I am not suited to the kind of community I've spent decades fighting to create. I break laws, I punch cops, I agitate and provoke. There will be no place for someone like me when a truly egalitarian polis is created from the ruins of the State, and I expect and accept that I will be asked to leave.

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14 hours a week to support a mud hut by the river, great fucking life eh. Can't do anything better than that, can't improve our understanding or mastery of the world any further than that. Absolutely ridiculous. At this point I'm pretty sure you're just trolling. No one that can still type in full sentences is this utterly retarded.

By personal preference I'm a mutualist. I could tolerate any kind of free society from Bakunist anarcho-communist agrarian generalist village to FAI-style anarcho-syndicalist structure, but my preference is for a mutualist community with a central bank to track labour credit and offer interest-free loans to entrepreneurs.

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You sound a lot like Trotsky. I mean that as a compliment.

Again, a fantastic reminder of how scared you and your ilk are of actually working. Why is it a bad thing that we get more done today than we did yesterday?

it's the only moral society on this planet right now voluntary exchange of goods. other types like socialism and communism is where you force wealth distribution by threat of incarceration or death. negotiation bargaining and trade is one of the greatest creations of mankind.

You obviously have no conception of how hunter-gatherer communities worked. Your contempt for people who spent most of their time teaching, learning, creating art, raising children, and making love says rather a lot about why you're so ready to die on a hill for your corporate overlords.

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And where is that "culture" today

I understand your theoretical view point, but right now, on March 7, 2020, how do you avoid living in capitalist society? What is your practical approach?

You won't get anything but theory from someone like this, it's not worth making them explain their beliefs in practicallity because they're impossible. He's not answering because he knows what you're doing and is running from it.

I'm 52 years old and I sleep on the floor on a yoga mat. Dog kibble makes up a significant part of my diet. I skip meals, I eat a lot of rice and microwave popcorn, and this winter my "heating system" was candles and blankets. That's how I survive. I'm diabetic, asthmatic, going blind from a rare form of glaucoma, live with constant pain from peripheral neuropathy, and recently had a bilateral pulmonary embolism which came very close to killing me. My health is shattered from a lifetime of fighting for others and refusing to be part of a system I hate and find immoral.

That's how I do it.

Still there after thousands of years in places like the Amazon rainforest and Borneo, in the small areas where the propertarians haven't hunted them like animals and stolen their land.

Microwave popcorn makes up a significant portion of your diet and you think you are escaping capitalism. Troll confirmed.

Still there doing the same thing with no progression whatsoever, right. That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation that these systems have no capability of progression.

You're like those retards who tell me if I don't want to be part of capitalism, I should stop walking on the sidewalks the capitalists put there. Fine, remove your fucking sidewalks from the places I need to walk, moron. I eat microwave popcorn because I can get it extremely cheap. My health isn't good enough any more to go dumpster-diving, so I eat what I can buy cheap and doesn't require refrigeration. That's mostly rice, ramen, microwave popcorn, instant mashed potatoes, and dog kibble.

It doesn't sound like a viable way of living. I'm feeling sorry for you but the sad truth is that you are a cautionary tale.

>diabetic
>asthmatic
>going blind from a rare form of glaucoma
>constant pain from peripheral neuropathy
>bilateral pulmonary embolism

You forgot self-diagnosed anxiety and PTSD
Jeebus Christ, Lemmy Kilmister lived a less healthy life than you and made it to seventy like a boss.

My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial. Can you say the same?

>morals

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Yes.

Living in utter poverty, massive health issues, constant pain, already near death at 52, all due to poor life choices you have made, and I'm the retard? Your argument is that we should move the sidewalk from where YOU walk? So it's YOUR GROUND? How about we reserve ownership for the people who actually give a damn enough to make improvements to the world, things like sidewalks, i.e. the taxpayer. This is the worst argument you've made yet, try harder.

There it is. Been waiting for it. You Randroids are all the same. By denying everyone else's reality you can construct whatever idiot fantasy you like about how the world works. Collect only a single data point and the graph shows anything you like.

Stay dumb, Cletus.

>rice, ramen, microwave popcorn, instant mashed potatoes, and dog kibble

Unless you grew and made those yourself OR those were produced by a self-sustained commune to which you contribute to based on your ability, then you are part of a capitalist system.

>From each based on ability, to each based on the need
How did you contribute in your day?

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black....

Not a redneck but have a healthy dose of respect for them.
They can live a self-sustained life, off-grid, they have skills and knowledge how to be free without government hand-out

And I am talking about true hillbillies, the ones not collecting Yankee money, the trailer trash that hillbillies frown upon themselves.

>cautionary tale

Absolute truth

>How did you contribute
Decades of community organizing. Founded two NGOs, advocated personally for hundreds of people, organized dozens of protests and direct actions some of which involved hundreds of thousands of people, spent half my life in court fighting police and city hall and the business lobby, been to jail for justice, used every penny I ever made to start a community centre which I constructed with my own hands from salvaged materials carried across the city on my back, and lots of other stuff.

I dedicated my life to service to my community, not because I was rewarded or recognized for it, but because it was the right thing to do. You wouldn't understand.

I'm now paying the price for a life of stress and hard work with terrible food and horrible living conditions. It's what I expected, and I accept the sacrifice as the cost of being a good human being. Again, not something I think anyone on Yas Forums would ever understand. I should know better than to engage with a pack of privileged suburban children with zero life experience and an impared sense of empathy.

No. Corporate shares are securities in slavery. Democratic worker's cooperatives should replace traditional capitalist enterprise. The only arguments against this are the same arguments used to defend feudalism.

>Can a capitalist society ever be an ethical/moral society?

It could be argued that for most of its history, America was, on the whole, an "ethical/moral society." Yes, it had slavery, sexism, and so on -- and still has a ways to go on race & women's rights -- but I would posit that for every backward step America took, it took 2 steps forward. How can I say that? America attracts people the world over to come here -- by any means necessary. And almost nobody leaves America voluntarily. If there was a better place, these things wouldn't be.

And just look at how your community is treating you right now.

Helping people is a right thing to do, but there is a difference in helping people to help themselves and supporting people who see you as a doormat.

Except I wouldn't surprised that you were among the people who scoffed at the first group for being racists and classicists and praised the second group even though it made little headway but was inclusive to no end.

Sacrifice by definition is meant to make impact. Yours is an empty gesture. You're not Jesus.

I've saved lives, built communities from the ground up, trained two generations of organizers and activists who will come after me, and used myself up like a tube of toothpaste doing it. I didn't do it because I would be rewarded or recognized; I knew going in that I would in fact be mocked for it.

Insulting editorials have been written about me in newspapers, and I've been called everything from an extortionist to a lunatic in the media. That's fine. That's the price you pay for being a good human being. I don't expect you to understand.

"The first lesson a revolutionary must learn is that he is a doomed man. Unless he understands this, he does not grasp the essential meaning of his life." -- Huey Newton

A lifetime of trying to prove something to the world, accomplishing a fraction of what that drive could have achieved. If you had worked WITH the most powerful system of economic and industrial progression ever devised rather than working directly against it and trying to dismantle it, maybe you would still be enjoying your membership in a supportive community you helped to build. Instead you live like a pariah and take every chance to scorn people who didn't make the same mistakes as you.

FPBP

You say you didn't do this for recognition, and you say it often I might add.
Why are you romanticizing the idea of doing something without recognition, though, if you don't care about it? Why is it even worth mentioning?
You did this because you had something to prove to the world. Turns out though, you were wrong, and now you see what your choices have led to but you can't accept responsibility.
Instead you say you're a martyr, that what you did was the "right thing" so you can avoid recognizing the hole you dug for yourself.

Capitalism cannot function without inequality of supply. Demand is when supply needs are not met. If everyone has everything they need, then there is no demand, and capitalist structures would collapse as a result.

So, the capitalist is completely uninterested in improving the supply. Their goal is to instead control the supply, and thus generate demand. The Haves must hoard what they have so the Have Nots remain in a state of inadequate supply.

The level of hoarding the Haves undertake serves no purpose but to reinforce their power over the supply.