Im sick of this shit

>Seeing guys with 0 traps who shrug 3 or 4 plates for reps, full range of motion, and yet their traps dont grow.
>Seeing guys Calf Raise the entire stack, and yet still their calves look like any random guys calves on the street.
>Seeing guys bench press 2+ plates for 10+ reps and still have bitch tits.
>Seeing guys doing like 50 sets per week for arms and yet have 0 arms.


What the fuck is it? Natty lifting, its a fucking meme right? The only natty lifters I know that look good, dont look good because of muscle mass, they just look good because they're single digit bodyfat, their muscular development is always trash no matter how strong they get or how much volume they do.

Don't even talk about CBT threads on Yas Forums, most of them are frauding, or they're frauding myspace 1/1000 best photo they took, Im talking about what I see in real life in regards to the natural lifter. None of what you say should happen, happens to a natty.

>"Just get X lift and you'll grow and look good" -
doesn't happen.
>"Just do X volume and you'll grow and look good" -
doesn't happen

What actually works? just get fucking lean, all this autistic routines, strength gaining, high volume, none of it does much to build your body as a natty, nattys can barely grow.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, such as guys with amazing genetics who grow like they're on steroids (let's be real most of these guys are just frauding and dont actually have special genetics)

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I'm natty and have been told I have big traps and lats. Literally the only thing that hits either that I do are pull-ups. I actually didn't know pull-ups hit traps until someone complimented mine.

Anyway, this is with my arms being sticks despite me going crazy on sets of variants of curls, since big arms are my number 1 goal. Perhaps as a natty lifter, less is more?

What was the point if this? Just to shit on nattys for no reason?

So what am I doing about it you ask?

Here's the plan.


1. I'm not training lower body anymore, especially not calves, calves just dont fucking grow, no point, Im done with it, not wasting my time with that shit anymore, if they haven't grown after all this time, they aren't ever going to grow.

2. No more Shrugs, I swear it feels like ROWS actually train my upper traps better than Shrugs ever have, again, another total waste of time exercise, dumped.

3. No more bulking, especially not at 15-20% bodyfat. I am cutting down to 8% Bodyfat, from then I'll see what I will do after that, but I don't plan on ever getting over 12% bodyfat ever again my life. I will go between 8% and 12% bodyfat, no higher than that.

4. No more routine, I am just going to train whatever a few times a week. I will do 1 Back exercise, 1 Chest Exercise, 1 Shoulder Exercise, and 1 Exercise for Arms

Example workout 1
3-4 sets, pyramid up to heavy set.
>Dumbbell Bench
>Cable Rows
>Side Laterals with Machine
>Cable Curls

Example workout 2
3-4 sets, pyramid up to heavy set.
>T-Bar Rows
>Barbell OHP
>Machine Chest Fly
>Tricep Extensions with attachment

Example workout 3
3-4 sets, pyramid up to heavy set.
>Incline Barbell Press
>Dumbbell Rows
>Side-Laterals with Cable
>Barbell Curl

Example workout 4
3-4 sets, pyramid up to heavy set.
>Machine Behind the Neck Shoulder Press
>Hammer-Strength Rows
>Dumbbell Incline Fly
>Rope Tricep Pressdown

I've never done shrugs, yet my traps are borderline overdeveloped compared to the rest of my body. they also don't respond well to high volume or recover very quickly. like I can OHP 1.5 plate on intensity day but it's difficult to do a 3x5 for 1 plate

anyway a large part of the way your body develops is based on genetics.

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>anyway a large part of the way your body develops is based on genetics.

I believe it. I see guys at my gym on steroids who still look like trash who get mogged by low-bodyfat natties with very little muscle but who just have a good frame and low bodyfat. Poor souls.

Good plan. Let us know how it works out for you.

Reminds me, I'm 90kg and do 200kg+ on picture related. Can even hold for 20-30 seconds. Yet i still look DYEL as fuck.

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>tfw my back day is 3 sets of pullups, 3 sets of rows and 3 sets of curls
>tfw chest day is 3 sets of bench, 3 sets of dumbbell press and 3 sets of tricep extensions
Now I don't know if I just have good genes but I have built these arms on minimal volume and just focusing purely on progressive overload. Worth a try at least

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based

>no big four
You aren't growing because you are a weak faggot. The mind game of lifting is to force your body to confront something it can't achieve, presenting the stimulus for growth.

user above mentioned pullups which are a great example of a good thing you should be doing rather than the faggy cable shit that you actually listed.

Also I've been working out hard for two years. Completely natty. I get mired everywhere I go. But I'm still frustrated and feel weak because I've been stuck at 180/275/400/500 for nearly half a year now. The idea that you quit before even coming within sight of my basic bitch level of strength is honestly embarrassing. From one user to another you need some perspective and some mental fortitude.

ITT: body dysmorphia

There's one guy at the gym, who looks average as fuck - which always surprised the fuck out of me. For instance I've seen him do the following;
>200kg + DL for 5 (Super easy)
>100kg bench for 5 (Easy)
>150kg+ squats for 5 (Easy)
When i see him from the side he looks even more plain and his chest doesn't even pop out.

If you saw him on the street you'd think he goes gym 1-2 times a week max, and wastes his time. Yet in reality he is strong as fuck.

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Why are there so many defeatist cucks like this on Yas Forums?
kys OP

Calves just don't grow if you're natty. Ask any bodybuilder about it, they will all tell you calves only really respond to training if you're using AAS.

Natty bodybuilding isn't really a thing. Or not really a thing like most people think. You can do it but about the absolute best you'll achieve is something like Grimek or another 30s-40s bodybuilder. By the 1950s dianabol was being tested by many.

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discourage them so there are less jacked people or to get them on roids, op might be druglord

Oh fuck off, I'm sick of hearing this absolute fucking BULLSHIT on Yas Forums.

I ate this eat up like it was gods words, and I killed myself week in week out for YEARS focusing on the main compound lifts autistically, dogmatically, progressively overloading, doing EVERYTHING right, and the RESULTS WERE FUCKING SHIT.

Random Bros on brosplits mogged me while having 1/3rd of my strength level. Just fuck off with this "muh main compound lifts" shit. IT DOESN'T fucking WORK.

STOP FUCKING POSTING THIS SHIT ABOUT GETTING STRONG AT THE MAIN COMPOUND LIFTS, ITS FUCKING BULL FUCKING SHIT. PEOPLE WHO GOT BIG DOING THAT GOT BIG IN SPITE OF DOING IT, NOT BECAUSE THEY DID IT, THEY WOULD HAVE GOT BIG ANYWAY DOING ANYTHING.

IM SO FUCKING DONE WITH THIS PLACE

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>le determinism
>le shitty genetics
>le ectomorph btw
fucking pathetic, kill yourself nigger

>Calves just don't grow if you're natty. Ask any bodybuilder about it, they will all tell you calves only really respond to training if you're using AAS.
This sucks so FUCKING HARD, i rep 30 reps of 120kg on the smith machine for calves. Legs were always very strong for me, beltless / free-weight squats i hit 150 for 2.

My legs are still pathetic as fuck, my calves are embarrassing.

>3 sets
and how many reps? what tempo, what weight. forced reps, negatives? amrap, target or myo reps?

None of what you said is an argument at all. Don't worry. I was stuck in that mindset of big compound lifts hur hur for like 5 years myself. Much longer than the average person is on here.

I could only take seeing guys much weaker than me, who barely lifted shit, who were bigger and more aesthetic than me, to realize muh big compound lifts was a meme, and all the examples people post about how X or Y guy is strong at the main compounds and is jacked, well those are all just the elites of the elite, their results are not what the average guy lifting focusing on big compounds gets, nowhere fucking close

It also doesn't help that so many guys are on tons of gear now, that it makes distinguishing what actually works so fucking hard. Figuring out what works without steroids in the mix is already hard enough, but we have to deal with all these fake natties and frauds as well? Yeah fuck its a joke.

Makes me realize why so many people think the whole lifting world is a fucking joke.

between 5 and 8, if i get 3 sets of 8 ill increase the weight. just regular old seated curls nothing special like you mentioned. Currently curling 60lbs seated incline for sets of 5 strictly. OK I missed something too, right after the last set I will grab a set of lighter dumbbells and go to failure

Now I do think I have at least decent genetics but honestly IMO progressive overload with good form is #1 for natty lifting.

Modern bodybuilding is a joke. The entire sport is drugs, just accept it. Move on with your life and do something productive. If you like lifting get into olympic lifting or powerlifting. Or even something like shotput or discus.

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Dude get a grip. I'm assuming you're the faggot OP?
Here's the thing you and a lot of guys don't get. If you're trying to build your body there's a certain amount of "sculpture" involved that differs from person to person, based on their strengths and weaknesses.
You talk about having bad traps and calves. Ok, so the solution is not drop shrugs and calf raises but to do MORE of them until your physique evens out. Also you need to think outside the box with your training. You want to build your calves? Do sprinting along with calf raises. Traps stalled out? Do deadlifts and T-bar rows along with shrugs.
And while you may sperg out about the compounds every fit person should be able to perform these basic body movements.
Get your shit together user, you will make it but not until you drop the bitchmade attitude.

100% agree with you OP

ive been lifting consistently for 10yrs and i look like i lift and get mired all the time but my best feature is my traps and i do zero shrugs. Never have done them. My worst feature is calves and i do them 3x a week

You good my nigga?

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And I'll also add
>spent years focusing autistically and dogmatically
That's another problem. Forget all that, there's also a certain level of intuition at play here. You need to know your own body well and see/feel what it responds to best and what it doesn't, and likewise you have to have a bit of an artistic eye to truly have a knack for aesthetics.
Autism and dogma, though extremely popular in the fitness industry and especially this God forsaken board, kind of runs completely against that.

This is why we try to explain to people how important genetics are. And people here will try to say
>c-cope! its about hard work!
And yes hard work is very important, but genetics will still determine just how hard you might really have to work.
I'm just like you...always had naturally big traps but naturally shit calves. Why? Genetics. Wherever our muscles attach (insertion points), that's it. That determines the shape. I did eventually build my calves up quite a bit, but by absolutely blasting them on the calf raise AND doing sprints, hill training, etc like I tried telling our pink wojak friend.
Of course his solution for a lagging muscle group is apparently to work them less, not more.
A bold strategy. We'll see how far that takes him.

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>None of what you said is an argument at all. Don't worry. I was stuck in that mindset of big compound lifts hur hur for like 5 years myself. Much longer than the average person here.
stopped reading there, you are fucking something up and are not taking responsibility for it because you are a retarded baby.

You are such a narcissist that you cannot accept YOU do something wrong, and instead blame your genetics. This is literally the one thing 99% of people in life can improve with hard work.

You are such a fucking nigger jfc, just kill yourself and be done with it, this is a fitness board not the "cry like a bitch because you don't want to be an adult" board, if you want that Yas Forums is three doors down.

>see dyel guys doing dyel weight
So what retard?
I guarantee you you wont see a dyel strict press 120kg or bench 180kg so aim for higher weight you pathetic twink faggot

>all these meme cable/dumbbell/rope exercises
Oh now i see why you are dyel

It's amazing how people on this board are so incredibly stupid that they can read a post and somehow glean the exact opposite message from it.

lies

what you do in your youth + genetics will determine muscle mass potential

t. big ass calves guy who walked uphill every single day + cycling

on the other hand i barely used arms, now i stick with these noodles

Because the cringe machine has almost no range of motion.
Try calve raises from an edge with 50kg.
Then try them with your toes making right angle.
Then with your heels on right angle.
They are called inner and outer raises.
The cringe machine really doesn't do anything for calves, even if you put 500kg.
Sage

>strong legs
>150kg x 2 squat
Lmao are you 70kg?

>WAAHHHHHH WAHHHHHH *sniffle* W-WHAAAAAAA *shits diaper and throws up pure estrogen*

don't use the smith machine and come to a complete stop at both the very bottom and the very top of the lift, pause for 2 seconds. If you aren't coming to a complete stop at the bottom of the calf raise then your legs are relying on the elasticity of your tendons to bounce the weight back up since they are incredibly strong. If you go incredibly slowly and do 4 high rep sets your calves will definitely respond pretty quickly

is jeff really natty? i swear he looks as roided as every gymshark youtuber out there.

of course he isnt natty

he has dbol bloat in so many photos

calves have the least androgen receptors of any muscle. they have the weakest response to steroids.
you absolute retard

If you have a high bf then your definition isnt going to be there, lifting isnt all about how big your muscles are either, you are conditioning your cns. You need to do alot of reps and eat alot for muscle growth, or ya know just roid.

>calves just dont fucking grow

not true at all, I've played football (soccer) all my life and my calves are very decent, better in fact than practically every lifter in my gym, none of them seem to train their calves for whatever reason.

It's because you run, my calves got huge when i used to run a lot

How long you been lifting?

I have seen hikers with some surprisingly big calves.

so funny that this shit is still a daily argument on Yas Forums. Plenty of professional bodybuilders are on YouTube, and they always say you add your curls and other isolation exercises to failure, lots of volume, different exercises. But you guys are still arguing about this, "four barbell compound exercises is enough to make you look jacked". You guys don't deserve to make it: you don't listen to experienced people and you don't know how to think for yourselves.

>squat
>get huge traps and upper body by not even giving a fuck about it
>DL become enormous
>bench ego boost literally useless and no real gains
>OHP get huge arms, shoulders, and back
>bicep curl get huge arms shoulders and back
>row Literally nothing fucking waste of time and feels like shit
>rack pulls HUGE lats
>literally just fuck around with the bar like a retard, get huge
>over use my back or joints, out for three days muscles get huge but strength decreased slightly
FUCK
Does anyone know how to space optimally to avoid strength loss?
>see frequenter DYEL has been using free weights for a while
>see him struggling with 30s for standing dumbbell press
>walk over grave the biggest dumbbells and do 5 reps
>literally never done the exercise before
>mog the shot out of him
>grunt really loud so he looks
Heh he was mirin hard fo sho
>squatting
>guy comes up to me
>how much more sets you got?
>huh? (Take our head phones and he repeats)
>2pl8
>just doing my warm up bro
>start doing work sets
>resting for 10 minutes
>he keeps popping by to check if it’s free
>finically move on to Bench to mog everyone
>see him squat 10 lb pl8 max out at 25
>tf?
>accidentally trip on my own foot on the way to get water
>fall on face
>roastie comes over and asks if I’m ok
>hey I’m just chillin u mirin?
>what? What does that mean? Do you need help up
>nah just posing for u cutie ;)
>ugh (she leaves)
FUCKIN MIRIN BRAH

My calves are becoming more defined and growing a little.

Do you want to know my secret?

200miles a week cycling with a lot of hill climbing. I've been doing this for 14 months straight with no breaks. So approx. 12,000 miles for pretty minor gainz.

On the plus side, I've got a massive arse that makes me look like duck.

>>resting for 10 minutes

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amazing just now retards are realizing all the “fit gurus” they look up to are actually using gear. must be a hard black pill to swallow knowing you will never truly match up to someone in gear in pictures and especially in real life.

here’s a pro tip: you can either fill a picture or fill a room, extremely hard to do both.

>mfw I was a fat kid so my calves are huge now

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>calf raise
>entire rack

Calves respond to weight and repetition.
If you're doing just one, they won't grow.
So educate yourself.
Because the calf belongs to the strongest muscle group of the entire body.

It can through its motion lift almost a ton on an untrained individual.
So no fucking shit it won't respond to just weight.
It's also meant to be used daily, almost all day long.
So no fucking shit it won't respond to just repetition.

You have to go the distance with a shit ton of weight.

People that backpack or ruck, have larger calves.
People that train calves 3+ times a week for upwards of 400+ reps with weights that double their body weight. Will have calves.

Your friend who goes in and just does a few weighted sets, will not have calves.

I wish more people like you posted on Yas Forums.

alpha as fuck mirin hard

What's AAS?

I did soccer, track, cross country, and mountainbiking through college and I don't have big calves. some people just have big calves. some people just have a more favorable fiber type composition that is responsive to resistance training. my calves will take a long ass time to grow, but I hit them every day at least

at least mine aren't small. they look proportional to my frame

>thinking he can sustain 8% bf as a natty
Lol

I'm mostly an absolute DYEL.
I have bright green/yellow on symmetric strength for all my lifts.
My one thing I'm proud of is my calves because I hike pretty regularly. I also workout calves once a week.
Combined I use calves daily and I have 19 inch calves.

It sucks, but when you think about that even the largest body builders in the world aren't going to have calves too much bigger than mine.
When you put that into perspective I'm in the top 1% of all people for calf size and can easily if I focused more on them I could be a world class calf model.

For a guy who only works out a few times a week that's pretty cool.

So getting discouraged about calf growth is pretty silly.

Steroids
Anabolic Androgenic Steroid

>1. I'm not training lower body anymore, especially not calves, calves just dont fucking grow, no point, Im done with it, not wasting my time with that shit anymore, if they haven't grown after all this time, they aren't ever going to grow.
tfw opposite situation lol

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