TLOU2 vs MGS2

Stop comparing ma'am simulator to mgs2 you tranny faggots

you're not supposed to like raiden
he's supposed to be you, the player
a whiny bitch whose only combat experience is in VR
kojima was trying to do something more than just subvert expectations
honestly the biggest subversion of expectations would've been to keep joel alive
everybody knew he was going to die in the sequel
bumping off ellie is surprising, but looks like it will be unsatisfying

>he's supposed to be you, the player
still trying to find all those rpg options in place than listen to the opinions of a retard

>be you
>be someone who was playing games since they were a child
>violence not only becomes acceptable in games but the norm
and now
>be raiden
>be someone who was a soldier since they were a child
>violence not only becomes acceptable in real life but the norm
Raiden was literally a mirror image of the player if you were somehow predisposed to actual murder rather than portrayals of murder in a videogame. he looks up to snake and sees him as a hero, as does the player, but like the player, Raiden is not larger than life and has realistic limitations.

Neither is justified, and both should be viewed as anti-consumer. I hated MGS2 back in the day and I still hate it now even with all of the retrospective meta narrative bullshit, which I personally think is clutching at straws. Kojima and Druckman are both pretentious assholes who think they’re smarter than their fans, and rather than just delivering a satisfying experience that their fans want, they instead decide to subvert le expectations and pull the rug from under your feet and deliver a sub-par game that “makes a statement”.

Although in Kojima’s defense, the ruse was much better handled in MGS2 and makes much more sense.

mgs2 is a fantastic game and raiden is cool.

Kojima liked the characters he was writing for. The Last of Us 2 reeks of someone who was forced to write about characters he hated.

you're conflating two completely different things

Raiden was redeemed with MGS4 and especially MGR. He's so edgy now that it actually works.

Kojima was obviously trying to do something with it. It happens within the first hour, and then focuses on raiden to develop him and contrast him. He's his own character. TLOU replaces a chunky lesbian with an even chunkier lesbian and I have no faith in their actually being any real point to anything that will happen in a game like that.

As people say, Raiden grew into being a loved part of the franchise. I don't see that happening with Bulk Flexchest.

MGS2 IS SO FUCKING LOVED BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY RESPECTS THE CHARACTERS AND FANS

SNAKE ISN'T A FUCKING HELPLESS KEK WHO GETS BASHED TO DEATH WITH A GOLF CLUB BY A TRANNY, HE'S A COOL ASS MENTOR FIGURE THAT HELPS YOU DESTROY ARSENAL GEAR

ALL THESE GARBAGE FUCKING SUBVERSIVESHIT STORIES (TLOU, STAR WARS, THRONESHIT) GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SPITE THE FUCKING FANS AND SERIES

Attached: 1690157654-Snake-Infinite-Ammo.jpg (600x338, 94.65K)

>kojima's mistake was marketing mgs2 as a game where you continued snake's story
its not a mistake its done deliberately on purpose to prove the point presented in the game itself. Its actually really clever. I doubt that he came up with that idea himself

I liked the part in MGS2 where Raiden brutally beat Snake to death during his introduction, really gave me the motivation to play as him for the rest of the game.

Raiden is like when DC had Nightwing/Robin take up the Batman mask.
Dyke Nukem is like when Marvel declared Thor unworthy and replaced him with a new woman Thor who was worthy.

>kojima's mistake was marketing mgs2 as a game where you continued snake's story
That was the point. You "do" continue Snake's story in that you continue to pretend to be Snake. It's just now your player character is also a character that's trying to pretend to be Snake.

I'd actually argue that MGS2 was made at least partially in spite of the fans, but it didn't shit all over Snake, just the player.

I unironically ended up liking Raiden better than Snake

Raiden doesn't kill Snake you stupid fucking retard.

Its only ok whe nthe japanese do it.

yeah but you don't do that and not expect people to be disappointed and trash your game, it's almost entirely the fault of the marketing, i was suggesting they could do something slightly different in the game, but it really would mean nothing if the marketing was still the same as it was.

Here's a better switch
Directed by Kojima

Attached: sarah golf copy.png (856x489, 293.63K)

Don't you know?
The first time it happens, it's a tragedy
The second time it happens, it's a farce

MGS2 was made to shock the fans, initially, but it rewards them for seeing it through instead of saying "sorry gamers, the future is Raiden!!!"

MGS2 is a bait and switch but at least Snake survives and he's your buddy throughout the game. The tranny bashing in Joel's skull doesn't even make sense because we already know how capable Joel is in the post apocalyptic world so it just comes off as tranny pandering.

It doesn't shit all over the player either. There is an element of subverting expectations but it's done to eventually give an inspirational message at the end, not just to shock and enrage you.

I wish Sarah would beat me up.

For one thing, fuck trannies

Raiden was hot and fit into the themes of the game much better

People hated Raiden for the longest time, even after MGS4. MGS2 was the best MGS, but I think people didn't forgive Raiden until MGR. I think Kojima has a certain vision for his game and I doubt MGS2 would've been as successful in terms of sale without that bait and switch, so the cover up was justified. I doubt people would've bought or gotten hyped for MGS2 if Raiden was presented as the main character in the promo material.

Druckman is just a dumber version of Rian Johnson, and just want to "subvert expectation" for the sake of it. "WOW, WHAT IF ELLIE AND JOEL WERE THE BAD GUYS?!"

at least MGS2 introduced the idea of garbage info vs genuine info
youtube.com/watch?v=UGHZzSp79to&feature=youtu.be

Do you become the buff tranny or is it the villain?

Oh, and MGS2's main theme was disinformation, so it kinda fit too.

You become the buff tranny, and you hunt down Ellie and kill her