>playing some Civilization
>go all in on military
>AI still gets crossbowmen before me
>at 1040 BC
The Civilization games in general have a big AI conflict. Should the AI be a hard opponent, or roleplay as a civilization leader. Should is perform as your opponent trying to win a game of Civilization, or should it perform as the pharaoh of Egypt.
How do you feel about this, Yas Forums? Should AI try to play its character, or should it try to beat the player?
>should it perform as the pharaoh of Egypt
This. Civ games are most fun when you have tons of easier difficulty factions on the same map, not when the AI is a master tactician and outdoes your every move.
>Should the AI be a hard opponent, or roleplay as a civilization leader
Hard opponent. Civ is a game, not a history simulator.
/thread
Both wrong. Why don't you try being right for once?
no youre wrong
no u
You lose much of the charm of the game this way. Might as well be about moving pawns on a chess board at that point. The whole historical coat, with the different civilizations and flavours are so that you can see Shaka and think "oh shit better build walls", or see Korea and think "i should probably try to invade them early, or they'll run away with science". If all leaders are always minmaxing, they will all play the absolute best way, which is the same way. This is what makes me quit multiplayer games, its why I stopped playing StarCraft 2, and why I stop playing fighting games - the game gets solved and everyone plays the same.
I expect the AI to play its character, in all game genres. The AI is there to give me a good time, not to try to win. It can't win, if I start losing I quit. My loss is implied, I won't stay around to formalize it by seeing the end screen. The AI never wins. All it can hope for is to lose in style.
I don't get it
I decimated Pocatello's economy through war so that he's been in the red for 50+ turns now and still netting negative income but he somehow can maintain a big army and pump units out
I would have lost all my shit because the game would have told me all my guys deserted
What does the ai do? Does it straight up cheat?
The AI plays by the same rules you play by, except it has numerical advantage. Like starting with extra dudes, or each town center tile giving extra yields. It doesn't cheat, it just starts a few steps ahead, and then plays by the rules with this given advantage.
Any victory against someone not playing their best is a shallow victory. They're letting you win. Might as well watch someone else play the game.
Go play Firaxis' other game, XCOM. There the AI has every advantage and outwitting + beating them feels so fucking good.
The issue of how much do let the AI cheat in Civ has been present since the first game.
There was a blogpost or something from one of the designers where they discuss how they had to balance the amount and intensity of AI cheating in Civ 4, I'm pretty sure? He mentioned how in Civ 2 the AI would, depending on the difficulty, get wonders for free, instantly.
In Civ 4 they actually have to work for them, but they might get insane production buffs.
>if I start losing I quit
Why do you even bother playing video games then? Jesus christ dude...
The player can do stuff the AI can't do, so the AI should be able to do stuff the player can't do either. It's not cheating if they both have different advantages.
Do you continue bitterly defending to the last city when you are obviously about to lose?
I accept implied losses, I don't stick around until the end. If I can tell I lost, I quit. Not the same for winning. Even if I can tell I won, I proceed to make it factual by winning.
Civilization is, in its current form, a board game masquerading as a video game. All the new Firaxis games are the same, they are basically board games and that's it. The AI knows that you're the best player in the room and gang up against you, they aren't trying to do anything else but make sure one of them wins because they have been programed to hate you more than anything else.
The AI doesn't have the same rules as the player in Civ. It never has.
The AI cheats less and less with every Civilization game. It used to spawn and teleport units around, now it just gets a numerical advantage in some yields. The games have been getting better at this if anything. We just have more tools, more media, and we are older and smarter and can tell it cheats easier now than before,
It's just a waste of time. Flawless victory or no victory.
They're not board games though. They're video games. Your poor allusion makes no sense.
Other than shit like +1 food, or starting with +1 settler, other such numerical advantages, name a single thing the AI can do in Civilization VI that the player can't do. The AI plays by the same rules, it just has advantages. It doesn't cheat, as in it doesn't break mechanics. It participates in all of them - movement, loyalty, economic, etc.
Civ4 AI is a reasonable challenge while retaining some "historical flavour" with the different weights for tech and actions for the AI depending on the leader
>The AI knows that you're the best player in the room and gang up against you
That would be the AI trying to win. I want the AI trying to be Attila or Peter the Great. Not trying to win. It has no business winning. It has to give me a good time.
Higher difficulty in Civ games is "Give them more free shit" I forgot what number it was but they pretty much get free production and gold a turn that just scales up the higher difficulty. The AI is always the same but it seems harder on higher levels cause it will usually have more units or higher tech units then it would on lower levels to it will feel stronger more often then not especially early on.
Monopoly on Genesis is a board game but also a video game. It makes perfect sense. I'm sorry you have terminal autism, I will pray for you.
It doesn't pay upkeep. A bankrupt AI player can still maintain its current units as well as produce new ones. It does not abide by the economy rules.
You are playing the wrong game if that is what you're looking for. Try paracrap games or more niche titles.
Civ5 and Civ6 have all of these, plus more, with the unique units and buildings. But on higher difficulties, all of the AIs do their combat strength math and realize that they have 10x your military on turn 15 and do the optimal decision.
Then how has he been able to maintain a large army, continue to grow and establish other cities while 80% of his tiles are razed, he has no money according to the trade menu and his income is negative for more than 50 turns now?
I can't do that when I'm in that situation
They don't have the reasonable challenge part
I haven't checked about upkeep, but my intuition is that the AI just makes more gold due to its increased yields. I've seen AI disband units, its combat strength dropping in peace time, so I imagine it pays upkeep.
Because the AI has +X yields, times the era, depending on difficulty, on the tile the city is settled on. Thats why its single snow island city can grow. It has innate city tale yields. You have city yields too, just less. Its an advantage, not breaking a mechanic.
You've just gotten better at the game. I thought so too when we were debating Civ4 vs Civ5, then I went back to replay the old titles and I was shocked how easy they are.
I actually was a Civ4 loyalist, hating on Civ5, until it got its two expansion packs out and I had gone back to replay and compare. I changed my mind doing back to back long campaigns in my fully expanded Civ4 and Civ5 games, and even Civ5 mods got pretty good at the end.
Its subjective, not trying to tell you what to like, just make sure you aren't defending something out of habit. I fell into that trap and I almost talked myself out of a great game doing that. I love you and I wish you the best.
I fail to see how maintaining a large army while also continuing to grow despite being in the red nonstop isn't breaking mechanics
Can you set up a stream where you have a negative economy and also maintain a large army and grow
I must be doing something wrong because anytime I'm broke for more than a few turns I lose people and have a hard time growing
I want to see what you're doing that I'm not and learn
>Can you set up a stream where you have a negative economy and also maintain a large army and grow
You mean like in the OP screenshot?
Monopoly?
What the fuck are are you talking about?
No because in that picture he still has gold
He's losing it but he's still not at zero while being negative for half the game
So no, not like the OP
What's your reading level at?
Not that user but you can’t just dismiss the numerical boosts because they’re fairly big on higher difficulty settings. Being able to advance the tech/civic trees, make more money and produce units faster, on top of a combat strength boost means they’re doing more in less time, which is essentially cheating- if I maximize solely on production, and can make a unit in 4 turns, it’s essentially cheating if the ai doesn’t even have to prioritize production and can make the same unit in less turns.
In the context of Civ6, it should be hard at whatever victory it's aiming, and have bias toward certain victories based on the civ strengths (Mongolia going for domination victories, Sweden cultural, Korea scientific etc)
The problem with AI regarding combat is that there is absolutely 0 strategic thought: they just throw units at your walls to die, not bothering to protect their ranged and bombardment units, and are incapable of creating a proper navy or airforce. Most games are decided by early AI warrior rush and if you reach walls/archer fast enough to survive, because once you do they're not longer a threat.
A mix of both, have it be like Anno where the opponent you play against has a different approach to things and is more or less competent and more or less aggressive depending on which one it is.
>civ6
there's your problem.
for reals though, you need to prioritize science over everything else.
the person who wins is the person who out-techs everyone else.
>but I play on Diety
there's no winning then. only "defend your 1 city out until the end" due to the AI being so ridiculously overpowered.