Can Andrew Ryan really be considered a villain when he literally created a utopia that proceeded perfectly until it was...

Wasn't Fontaine trying to start a civil war?

The foothold he established that allowed for his success was entirely dependent on his exploitation of the existing system to establish his initial capital. An exploitation that inherently broke the rules of the system itself. Fontaine and Ryan were not on even ground until Ryan lost his shit and started violating his own principles in the same way Fontaine had already been doing. Not to mention the public torture and execution of law enforcement is not a core tenet of libertarian ideology under any circumstance. And those tactics were essential for Fontaine in inciting civil war in Rapture.

It was a libertarian "utopia". Imagine all the pedo shit going on.

The more "progressive" your society, the more likely pedophilia is written off as a sexual orientation instead of a perversion. Libertarian policies are financial, not social. Zero correlation between the two.

>Playing Bioshock 2
>Defending Little Sister as she harvests some ADAM
>Splicers come out screaming the 'C' word

I didn't hear a single splicer call me a coombrain my whole playthrough.

>The foothold he established that allowed for his success was entirely dependent on his exploitation of the existing system to establish his initial capital.
...i mean
>Not to mention the public torture and execution of law enforcement is not a core tenet of libertarian ideology under any circumstance.
...you sure about this?
Just curious: what libertarians have you been talking with?
'cause none of this shit would even remotely bother the libertarians i've been talking with.
Unless you have a very specific definition of it that isn't really adopted by most modern libertarians out there today.
>Libertarian policies are financial, not social. Zero correlation between the two.
See this is the kind of shit that makes me think you're either a troll, or basically never interact with anyone and are stuck entirely in your own mind.

A utopia is not classless you fucking retard. The original utopia story had slavery

Fucking left winger retard

>A utopia is not classless
Then it's not an utopia, simple as that.
Any system where someone benefits from crushing and exploiting those beneath him is clearly not an utopia.

He’s not a villain, he’s just a retard you’re supposed to feel bad for. And not because his world is collapsing but because he thought it could succeed. Andrew Ryan is a critique on Galt’s Gulch from Atlas Shrugged.

>create a place where people are free to do what they want with enterprise
>get assblasted when people do what they want with enterprise
I shiggy diggy

>no not like THAT
>I'M supposed to be in charge, what the fuck

It sorta reminds me about what would happen if Yas Forums finally got what they wanted.
More than half of them would be shipped in concentration camps for being mutts and degenerates.

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The original story that defined the word had slaves you fucking ignoramus. Go fuck yourself.

Also slavery =/= barbarism. Try opening a history book some time and look at how the Romans, Sumerians and ancient Greeks treated their slaves. Slaves generally were defeated soldiers in war (weak) or had no trade or skills (stupid). Where slaves were in fact intelligent and had a trade, those civilisations allowed them to earn their way to becoming a citizen. This kept their societies strong and intelligent. All great civilisations had slaves and all of them collapsed when they became more liberal.

And then the retarded society built on purges would collapse on itself as well. You’re forgetting that part.

>The more "progressive" your society, the more likely pedophilia is written off as a sexual orientation instead of a perversion
In what progressive society is this true?

Libertarian ideology at its core is about personal liberty. I've seen videos of libertarians booing the idea of a driver's license, but shit like that is ignorantly disregarding the right to those around you to live. Not all modern libertarianism is based on South Park-esque self-parody. Retards like that are the fringes of the ideology. Maybe I am looking at the principles that are supposed to be exemplified by libertarianism, but if you consider people too dumb to recognize that the right to live is a fundamental freedom to be libertarians themselves then you're choosing the lowest common denominator to define your views of libertarians.

Sounds like every commie revolution

Kek, you don't actually believe even half of this shit, do you?
Just how brainwashed are you?

bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/3216b48d-3195-4f67-8149-54586689ae3c

The whole game I thought Ryan sounded based

>pro slavery
Did you really need all that autism just to say this?

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The whole point was that Ryan's system was always going to end with people like Fontaine. It's exactly like the idea of communism; a system that will always collapse not because it's wrong in itself but due to the nature of man and his greed.

t.twitter

>utopia that proceeded perfectly until it was undermined by an insider masquerading as an ally
That's Capitalism in a nutshell

What did he mean by this?

>Gets out business'ed by Fontaine, and other businesses
>"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT! MUH GREAT CHAIN SAID SO!11!!!1!"

Just like every libertarian, they enjoy while it works only for them.

But that's wrong, communism definitely is wrong in itself.

List us some libertarian utopias.

Capitalism is just soft slavery. You don't really believe those picking fruit and scrubbing toilets and barely making a living are free do you? I bet you think democracy works as well

>undermined by an insider masquerading as an ally
Now where have I heard this story before?

Rapture was unironically an authoritarian banana republic

You nailed the theme on the head, but I was specifically referring to Ryan in this unique narrative. Having seen what communism did, he created the most utopian opposition to it he could have managed, and it failed because he had too much faith in people to play fair in an open market.

>Hey andrew ryan we came up with this incredibly addictive drug that gives people superpowers but also makes them crazy, and the only way to get more of it is to kidnap little girls and brainwash them into drinking the blood of corpses which gets synthesized into the drug by a sea slug we've injected into them, and of course addicts are going to try to kill the litte girls and harvest them for their organs so we also brainwashed people into becoming giant monsters to protect them

>Hmmmm yes i see nothing wrong with this, carry on

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Once Ryan started trying to dredge up shit to pin on him, yeah. But again that was only because Fontaine was winning the same game they were both playing. If Ryan hadn't resorted to it, Fontaine wouldn't have resorted to violence.

It was a case of, Frank could see what was going on, and started making preparations for war. And he was right, violence did come, but Ryan struck first. After that, Frank gave up on playing by the rules and tried to resort to civil war.

It's true that Fontaine started out dirty, and used that to build his success. But once he had that success, he no longer needed the dirty foundations and actually even started shutting it down and getting rid of his criminal involvements. He tried to go straight and by all accounts he would have willingly and gladly remained straight, because he was finding such success playing by the rules.

It's essentially stated, that for the success he achieved with his legitimate business, he didn't care nor want to dirty his hands anymore with criminal behavior. Almost as a personal point of pride, he claims to love his reinvented image and playing the legit game. To this end, Ryan literally had to go dredging the muck for old dirt on Fontaine and went through a ton of effort to try and make it seem like a legit case, because Frank had essentially abandoned all his criminal efforts by then.

He's not a villain but he's definitely a hypocrite. He creates this place where "Free market governs all and you can do anything you want so long as you don't force other people against their will" then the second someone is gaining power and influence by selling what people want to buy he goes "Oh not that tho, that's contraband and if you try to sell that I'll have you arrested".

You know how I can tell you're uneducated?

Says the guy that thinks "slavery BAD" because funny late night comedian lectured him on it

>A simple glance at the logs and the overall history of the place shows that class inequality was still a prevalent presence in his new system
Utopia doesn't mean everyone is equal in every regard you fucking communist.

Really makes you think...

this is the only argument against ryan not being the bad guy that didn't use real life politics haha

>Romans and Greeks easily allowed their slaves to become citizens
>Rome collapsed because it became too liberal
>Greece collapsed because it became too liberal

Go open a history book yourself you illiterate faggotarian shitstain.

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OK, Resetera.

Besides smuggling, which shouldn't have been an illegal act since rapture was super to be 100% free market, what did he do that was criminal? I don't remember him ever starting shit until Ryan sent people to arrest him because his feefees were hurt that someone was a better businessman than him.

what the fuck is this post lmao

the pure historical revisionism in this post is overwhelming, have you read a single book in your entire life man

Ryan wasn't building a utopia. He wanted freedom.

>all those pictures I see of farmers around the world are working for me!
>what do you mean they’ve been working that land before they grabbed deals with suppliers?
>what do you mean they love their job and life?
>noooo they’re poor and suffering shitskins and I am der ubermensch only my life is great even though I still live with my parents at 30!

Imagine having a little sister wife......I wish I live in bioshock......

>Utopia
Far from it. In the words of Fontaine
>These sad saps. They come to Rapture thinking they're gonna be captains of industry, but they all forget that somebody's gotta scrub the toilets. What an angle they gave me... I hand these mugs a cot and a bowl of soup, and they give me their lives. Who needs an army when I got Fontaine's Home for the Poor?
He just exploited the ticking bomb that would go off at some point anyway, for his own gain so he could take control of the city.

in context, smuggling was illegal because Ryan wanted Rapture to basically be a control group. he wanted no outside influence so he could see how it would play out.

ok slavery is back in, but you're a slave, happy now?

>The whole point was that Ryan's system was always going to end with people like Fontaine.
Yea but if you're not a megalomaniac like Ryan you could just accept that Fontaine got the upper hand and will eventually be top dog. It's not like Fontaine did anything besides selling shit before Ryan started the war.

Did anyone here actually agree with his objectivism?

Rapture is just another example of why liberalism is crap.

And Sofia Lamb exists to show your commie utopia never works either.

The only reason why Rapture collapsed is because Ryan was too weak to uphold his own ideological principles, not because those ideological principles were necessarily flawed in themselves. Ryan used the State to intervene in the free and open market of Rapture in order to violently acquire Fontane's businesses for no other reason other than he was succeeding in his entrepreneurial activities and doing exactly what Ryan built Rapture to facilitate, which was to innovate, discover and expand. Most of the supplies you discover in Fontane's smuggling ring were copies of the bible, or other mundane items which never should have been illegal or prohibited in the first place in a Libertarian society. It was only Ryan's intervention which lead to Fontane's fake death, transformation into Atlas and vendetta against Ryan. This all happened because in the end Ryan only really wanted great individuals he liked, or innovation he permitted, and was secretly just as authoritarian as the statists he so despised.

>The original utopia story had slavery
Because the original Utopia was satire, dumbfuck. It wasn’t ever meant to be something people unironically aspire to.

He didn't really want to 'see how it played out'. He was convinced his way of doing things was right, and didn't want any outside influence to pollute it

Slavery is bad, it implies the slave was taken by force. Indentured service on the other hand is fine, so long as there are set rules agreed by both parties and someone to enforce them.

In Burial at Sea it's heavily implied Sander Cohen is a pedophile, or is kidnapping children for the pedophile elite of Rapture.

I think too many people write off Bioshock 2, but it was a good criticism of utilitarianism. The focus of Bioshock wasn't financial policies, it was ethics.

What would you prefer

considering all the pedo shit that goes on irl, rapture was definitely meant to be no exception

ur right, i fucked that up a bit

You know... thinking about stuff and forming your own opinions some time... isn't a bad thing...

Rome was a literal melting pot hellhole by the end, with enemies literally everywhere because of tribal conflicts. That + its leaders becoming ineffective + the overreach of the empire causes its collapse.

Yea but that's fucking dumb. If you're going to say that you want a place without dumb rules you can't just go "Also I'm banning anything I personally don't like". Ryan was honestly just a sore loser and the fall of rapture could've been at the very least delayed if he had accepted that Fontaine just knew what people wanted better than him.