I have a theory as to why fighting games seem to be hard to learn for some people. Its all on the communication between the game and the player, the more I feel like I'm in control of my character the more invested I am in a game, in lol/dota all you have is 6 abilities in the average champion, some have their gimmicks, in FPS you just move with WASD and aim with the mouse, intuitive as fuck, but all in all the communication between player and game is easily achievable for a new player in popular genres.
In the end we wish we could be inside the game with some futuristic technology and using the power ourselves to fight. But in reality we are faced with a really shitty interface that is convoluted, learning a character in a fighting game is like learning how to walk again, like you just received a new body and have to learn how to use it.
Some people find joy in discovering what this body can do and how they can interact with it with their controller. But some people wish the interface between their real body and their digital body was more direct and intuitive.
In my opinion inputs are a thing of the past, they were supposed to imitate a bit of the struggle it took these digital bodies to perform an special move, which was cool and all, but it just ruins the communication between a new player and their body, in the end motions are as easy to perform as pressing a button for seasoned players.
In my opinion new series should opt to not have inputs at all, and cool downs is an option to limit the spamming of special moves, but it just tries to fix a problem that is not needed while taking away the player's interaction and expression, games CAN be balanced around people being allowed to spam shit, giving more movement options and punishing the player for using a move multiple times is a good way to solve this non-problem that is rooted in the belief that your game has to be the same as all other, which lead to cornering yourself design-wise.
I have a theory as to why fighting games seem to be hard to learn for some people...
tl;dr:
new fighting games should design their games around a more intuitive control of their characters.
They used to feel intuitive, back when the basic shit actually did damage.
Queue Rising Thunder rage video. Super Street Fighter IV 3DS: Guile Edition featuring instant flashkicks from the touchscreen also rings a bell.
Doesn't matter if the controls are easier if people are just gonna complain about getting one-uped by people who already know how to abuse said easy playstyles.
Play SamSho 2019 if you want a heavy slash to do 30% of your life and combo-ing into a shoryuken from 1 slash to do 40-50% of the enemy's life.
Say what you will, but if doing a DP motion is hard for somebody maybe they should get checked up. It's been proven that simplifying fighting games doesn't bring new players and pisses off the fanbase. Even if you make 1 button specials, scrubs will still get their shits kicked in and stop playing. Anyway fighting games are in their best moment right now, still not great, but it's a niche genre. Maybe rito will attrack more people with their popular lol characters.
I'm happy that it exists but one niche game doesn't suddenly undo a decade worth of design trends.
>he can't do a DP motion
Come on, even kids get taught this shit
Personally, I don't hate fighting games but I never had the passion to become good at them. You really need to have a competitive spirit to fully get into it, otherwise casual play is just spamming the few attacks you can do with a couple buttons. Smash Brothers is the one exception to this, where they managed to simplify things down enough for a casual, well maintaining enough elements that can be studied by a serious player.
Would get into smash if they had better netcode and serious online play wasn't limited to lobbies since there are kids using items online and I cannot filter them.
The first one is a limitation of the switch since it doesn't have enough memory to create multiple save states to allow for rollback netcode to work, the second one is nintendo being retarded.
Really like the game, too bad the knock off clones are garbage kusoge an Melee is slowly fading out of existence.
Either companies are lazy while designing a new fighting game and just go back to their base formula, or the whole genre really has a close-end design and reinventing the way you control your character is an impossible task.
Fighting games among many genres have inputs to facilitate a greater diversity in moveset. One button press coupled with a myriad of motions can have different abilities and it's not like there isn't a logic that a game can associate with these motions as well. That's why it's pretty universal that projectile attacks will be 236+button and anti-air attacks will be 623+button although games can put these on other inputs for various reasons.
If you reduce a fighting game to single button specials with no allowance for motion inputs of any kind you reduce the scope of each character tremendously as you are removing even command normals (single direction input + button) and I don't want to play a fighting game that requires a literal keyboard just to give me the same number of moves a 4 button fighter does just because anonymous here things it's not intuitive to use motions.
No matter how much you dumb down the game in terms of specials and combos, scrubs and shitters are still going to complain because they arent willing to put in the time and effort to learn and better their game.
I used to actually be at least decent at fighting games, but since I've gotten to my 30s my brain just blanks out and I freeze up.
I actually think this isn’t true. I think that even if Smash had done away with the B-direction special setup and had kept more traditional fighter inputs, it still would have had wider casual appeal. And not just because it’s a mascot fighter (if that were enough, Pokken would be a huge hit)
The thing that separates Smash is it’s a game about fighting but it’s not a fighter. You can move around at high speed, jump onto platforms, grab items, etc. It’s like a 2D platformer where all the levels are boss fights and all the boss fights are against another player. Its appeal is that it bridged a gap between a genre that lots of people play and understand into the fighting game world.
Nobody says it because it doesn’t make sense when you put it in words, but what makes fighting games inaccessible isn’t DP inputs, it’s having “up” be the jump command instead of a jump button. It’s your character always walking like he’s locked on. It’s the entire screen being zoomed in so you can’t just run away for a second.
Those things are really what separates Smash. Casuals have been mastering 360 command attacks since OoT, it’s not like the dexterity required to play is the barrier. And if the success of the Souls genre is anything at all to go by, it’s not having to spend hours and hours getting your ass beat while you memorize patterns and learn to read enemy behaviors.
It’s the fact that fighters, as a genre, just don’t feel like all the other games people play. They exist in a bubble. Smash stepped out of that bubble and it was a runaway success.
IDK user, Dante’s got a shitload of moves for having two attack buttons and at most a single directional component. It wouldn’t be hard or limiting to put specials into simpler inputs, the real question is just whether it’s a good idea.
That might seriously be the onset of dementia. Go get a check up. Im a neurologist.
Yeah, like how a 1v1 between a pro CSGO player and a total CSGO newbie would result in the newbie getting his ass handed to him. The difference between these two is the fact that the newbie knows exactly what they have to do because of how simple FPS are, they just have to aim with their mouse and click to kill the enemy. The other nuances like knowing the spray pattern, knowing how to move around the maps and usual spots where the enemy could be hiding, etc... those things are an added depth to the game without sacrificing the simplistic core gameplay.
even without motions you still have:
>6 buttons
>same buttons while crouching
>same buttons while doing a charge.
>same buttons while jumping
>same buttons while holding 3 and 1
>same buttons while you press forward
Do I have to remind you that GBVS could be made into a game with no motions at all with a few tweaks? and before you say that that game is slow and not anime, that is just a design choice, the game could be fast as fucking guilty gear and still could use the same shortcuts and cooldowns.
I think people just don't want to dedicate the time to get good and will look for any excuse. The problem is people think think that fighting games are like any other games where you can grind out practice to win against real actual high level players. Fighting games are at their best when the best player in the world can just feel non-threatened or feel no need to improve. Inputs are just a small part of that and in fact I feel a longer learning process would be good for the game weeds out the non-dedicated quickly
>Can never do as a kid
>years later find out +P works just fine
Why didn't they just use the shortcut as the official movement.
This thread stinks of bitch nigga.
Fighters aren't hard, they just take some passion.
Tekken works with direction+ button and then has chains. People aren't passionate enough to learn chains, comobs, punishes, etc. You need to at least want to get good, and then the games becomes fun. This is very obvious with skill disparity specially because there's no fallback to bein a scrub, and you don't get to play. There's a lot of reward for pressing R or Q or 4 or whatever ultimate button unnamed online pvp game has, but if you want damage in a fighting game ,you're gonna have to work for it, and the reward is always amazing.
I have done so many demomans that I get the spark 99% of the time, and it feels great.
> Casuals have been mastering 360 command attacks since OoT,
Casuals can't do a standing spd. Casuals don't have the patience to do a proper shoryuken and rush the imputs and fuck them up. Casuals LOVE to jump, they can't control grounded movement properly without the ability to jump, so they get AA. No patience equals no success in fighters, they want their good stuff easy, that's when someone picks a fighter for the first time they just mash wichever button (or special if they're capable of doing them) they think is the best one, the most broken one.
retarded zoomie
ft10 me in any game you want bitch.
DMC and other action games of it's kind use a ton of directional inputs what are you talking about? You have an even blend of "press Triangle a bunch, maybe pause" and "press R1 + back" to get moves out. You could conceptualise the game as being a nonstop sequence of autocombos with precise input considerations and that is fine. But let's not pretend that you also aren't having to chose back/forward inputs for things like your stinger or red hot kick. As well as the occasional fighting game input like quarter circles or charge inputs as well.
>Do I have to remind you that GBVS could be made into a game with no motions at all with a few tweaks?
And how would you go about doing this while still retaining move variety? Break down one of the more technical characters movelist and show me how this works.
extending invitation to
GBVS struggles a lot with the limitation it set on itself. A lot of characters have some additional stances or followups on moves to get around it
It also forces characters like Beelzebub to sacrifice either a ground or air option because only having 4 special cooldowns means inputs have to overlap so if you do EX divekick (or use simple input) you don't have your mainstay ground special until it comes back up and vice versa.
xrd rev 2 east coast lobby 1 PC
DP motions might be simple in concept and practice, but they can feel a bit clunky to use if you're in a fast-paced match.
I can do a DP as an anti air just fine but I can't be fucking bothered to learn all the matchups and gimmicks and whatever shit
execution is not a problem for me but I can't just sit there and spend my time in practice mode labbing everything
that's pretty much why I quit fighting games a long ago
I could never figure out how to do Akira's two 3-part moves in Virtua Fighter 3. I was able to do one of them exactly once and don't know how. Is it a matter of smarter timing or just "do it hella fast"?
Inputs aren't the challenge you fucking faggot.
The real difficulty is neutral play because no matter how many combos you learn you're not gonna be able to do shit if you can't hit the opponent
you don't learn matchups in practice mode though. you learn them in actual matches. why the fuck are you trying lab matchup knowledge?
Fighting games have already command normals for crouching, jumping, and pressing forwad. And if you think pressing down a button in a match is more simple than a dp motion you haven't played enough fighting games. You have to sacrifice one of your attacks or be good enough to fit the charge into a combo calculating the timing. Try playing Cody or something in Street Fighter and tell me if it's easier.
You use it to learn what can beat what attack. What range you need to be to punish moves. Where the openings are in blockstrings to determine if you can fight back or not
Sure you'll learn most of it through actual matches but once you start fighting opponents who have their execution on point you'll want to know exactly what kind of openings and options you'll have
Reminder Wheels has muscular dystrophy and still plays at a top 8 level using one of the most complex characters in his game
Reminder there's a blind player who plays well
There's also Brolylegs and I'm sure other examples
No excuses