Boss hides the two best endings of the game

>boss hides the two best endings of the game
>requires you to beat EVERY SINGLE BOSS IN THE GAME before EACH attempt
>45 minutes to an hour at the very least for a single attempt
>fight right before him is with the second hardest boss in the game with no break in between to heal/recover Soul
>has the most HP out of any boss in the game
>does double damage and attacks non-stop, will kill you in 5 hits if you don't have any health charms and you are fully upgraded
Listen, I love challenging games as much as the next guy, but can we admit just how ridiculously punishing and badly designed this guy is? The fight itself is fun, it's great to master, but having to fight EVERY FUCKING BOSS IN THE GAME including NGK before each attempt is way too fucking ridiculous.

It would have honestly been much more fair and much better designed if the Pantheon of Hallownest had you start off on Pure Vessel directly. From a lore perspective, it makes sense since the Radiance makes its presence known at the end of the previous Pantheon against Pure Vessel, and it mirrors the main game where it's Hollow Knight > Radiance.

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you could also just get good and stop whining

faggot

Yeah, it's easy to gatekeep when you've spent 100 hours mastering the thing, but bad design is bad design. You can also tell someone to git gud because they struggle against Bed of Chaos and don't know the path to take to get her consistently on the first try every time, that doesn't change the fact that the boss is terribly designed

you're right, though the same elitists that protect the souls games will protect this game.

I love Souls game design. Having to spend 30 seconds to a minute running back to a boss after a death with the risk you might lose your souls if you die before you pick them back up isn't too punishing. You're almost immediately back in the fight. In fact, I was fine with that design for most of Hollow Knight, although the whole shade system somewhat discourages exploration. This, this is unforgivable though. This is like if DS1 had you fight every single boss in the entire game right before Manus on every attempt.

yeah i stopped playing hollow knight on the watcher knights so im not too sure how difficult this dude is but i can only imagine how the difficulty spikes.

That pantheon is dumb and I agree.
The others are shorter, and even if you need to beat it again to get to the boss for an attempt, after death you unlock them in the training hall below so you can practice. Did Pure Vessel there a few times then nailed his pantheon right after.

Dude, main game doesn't even COMPARE to DLC. Main game is like a tutorial for the DLC bosses. Nightmare King Grimm is a massive difficulty spike from everything before. Pure Vessel is a much more fun fight and what Hollow Knight should have been to begin with, but throwing Absolute Radiance behind EVERYTHING is just ridiculous

that doesn't sound enjoyable at all, guess i should be glad i stopped where i did.

a challenge in a game doesn't need to be fair. You're not entitled to the win

>a challenge in a game doesn't need to be fair
and thus, the game developers aren't entitled to my money or praise when they make a garbage game

it's an optional challenge

sounds like you got filtered :3

> him

A challenge in a game being unfair is bad game design, regardless of how you look at it. It's like an exceptionally difficult game where you die once and have to restart the entire game. Games like Dark Souls did difficulty right; in that they were difficult for the right reasons, they pushed you to get better, and failure was punishing, but not extremely punishing. Shit, I was even fine with how Hollow Knight did difficulty for the entire rest of the content. NKG was really fucking hard for me, but at least he was only like 20 seconds from a retry. Having to spend an hour grinding pointless bosses, most of which you won't have a problem with, and some that are outright obnoxiously designed like Uumuu and Markoth, only to have a single attempt on the HARDEST boss in the game is objectively bad game design.

And it hides some of the most important plot content behind it, as well as some excellent bosses. Even optional content is subject to being badly designed.

>a challenge in a game doesn't need to be fair.
Did you really just type that?

There is only one true king

I like how the last dlc was literally just masochistic boss bullshit for completionists who hate themselves. Remember when this game involved exploring?
Honestly I kinda hate hollow knight

waaaaaaah.
just fucking watch a youtube video.

*uses cheat engine*
What now, fagboy?

>having to fight every boss in a row
yea its been trash design since the megaman days on NES. HK is a game that just hops on shitty gaming trends

I usually enjoy a challenge as well but I agree, Godmaster in general is just too much. The time investment being the biggest problem. I love fighting bosses but not dozens of bosses in a row, and having to restart from the first every time. I don't need the individual fights to be made any easier but I would drastically prefer if I could actually do 1 fight at a time.

Just know OP that you're never going to get a reasonable discussion about this on a shithole like Yas Forums. If they see you admitting you couldn't overcome a challenge of any kind for any reason faggots who probably never even played HK will show up to insult you.

All of the bosses you die to will eventually be unlocked in Godhome, and I wouldn't count a 20 second cutscene that hints at some vague lore as "the most important plot content".

The point you are not getting is that it is a boss rush, a series of boss fights where if you die you have to start all over again. If you want to argue that boss rushes are bad game design they by all means do.

Having the boss replay mechanic was a great idea honestly. I was even fine with the first four Pantheons being small boss-rushes with scaling difficulty, if only more thought was put behind rebalancing some bosses like Uumuu. Shit, at the end of the 4th pantheon, I was extremely hyped after beating the Pure Vessel and seeing the Radiance's light. But they went way too far overboard with the last one.

Still no argument against bad design then?

Yeah, it's retarded how they made it, they could made it instead to fight only the hardest bossed in the game instead of ALL OF THEM, if yuo die, you need to repeat every single boss and that shit is boring as fuck

>20 second cutscene that hints at some vague lore as "the most important plot content"
It's by far the best ending to the game; the Radiance is not only swallowed by the void, it's completely destroyed, and the Pure Vessel is no longer infected. I understand a good ending needs to be locked behind a challenge, and Pure Vessel>AR is a big enough challenge on its own, but adding every boss in the entire game before them for EVERY ATTEMPT is excessive, obnoxious, and unfair.

you're not entitled to live you fucking faggot

t. undertale apologist who looked up all endings
there is no apology for bad design

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>If you want to argue that boss rushes are bad game design they by all means do.
Boss rushes can be okay as game design and are a reward in and of themselves, or can reward an extremely powerful item that trivializes the game, since completing them shows complete mastery of the game. That's as long as they're a completely optional and separate challenge. Tying the ending of a DLC to a boss rush is objectively bad game design, and you're not excusing this with "it's just optional content bro". As far as I'm concerned, everything outside of Deepnest, City in Tears, and Fog Canyon is optional content. The unsatisfying and shallow Hollow Knight ending sucks, and you have to go through what is technically optional content to get a better one, as well as a much more satisfying third act to the game.

You've convinced me, I agree. I guess I never really considered the Godhome ending as the "true, final ending", more as an alternate ending that only autists would ever see.

None of this would be an issue if you just got gud.

Post achievements right now faggot.

I'm suffering on radiant Markoth
Do I try a minions build or go full offense ?

Fucking kill yourself

>metroidvania
>literally all the lategame content is boss shit

I fully admit I never beat the final pantheon, only the first 4, and I'm alright with that. I'm willing to accept I wasn't good enough to beat it. I'm saying unwillingness to do so is pathetic. The game is better off for having a challenge like this.

Why do you do this to yourself

>The game is better off for having a challenge like this.
fucking no it's not. who does this make the game better for? the elite 1% of turbo-autists?

I beat the thing about a month after it came it and I agree with you, I think they either needed to:
>Put a checkpoint somewhere throughout the 40+ bosses
>Shorten the last pantheon down to cut out all of the easy but time consuming boss fights and make the final pantheon about 10-15 of the hardest fights in the game
I wouldn't call the last pantheon unfair since the bosses themselves are really well designed and fair, but throwing them all (even the easy fights) in a huge collection that takes nearly an hour to finish is pretty bad design.

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I refuse to do the pantheons before I radiant every boss I have available
I'll also do them with all bindings
nerves of steel, autism and time

>need to git gud
>need to put effort
Yes based.

>gatekeep
>everyone needs to be able to beat every game regardless of skill

Talking about "gatekeeping" is a surefire way to expose yourself as a total faggot.

the pantheon autism would be fine if they didn't hide the final boss and two fucking endings behind it

Yes, the game is better for that reason. Your argument could be used for any level of challenge and it would always be wrong.
>Why have a normal and hard difficulty in games? For the 75% of normal players? The game would be better if everyone just played on easy and that's all the game offered because I personally can't beat or enjoy it.

If they made it so every bench in the Pantheon of Hallownest functioned like a regular bench, and you were given the option to continue from that point or exit and have to restart the whole thing, it would be much better designed. This essentially means the NGK gauntlet is the last before you get a bench for Pure Vessel and Absolute Radiance. I have no idea why they even included benches in the first place since you had those recovery ponds.

>everyone needs to be able to beat every game regardless of skill
Yes, correct. They paid for the game so they're entitled to all of the game.

>the elite 1% of turbo-autists?
I mean, a lot of HK is directed towards the 1% turbo autists, I dont know why that even surprises anyone. Get good or get filtered, in my case I got filtered hard, but well at least I had my fair share of 40h of fun.

'Bosses' like the moss charger are kinda weird to have there since they are most like big random enemies and they dont even have an upgraded battle. The vengefly spikes pretty hard but just making you fight two at the same time

git gud

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Do we even know if it's the canon ending at this point until Silksong comes out? Assuming Silksong actually takes place after.

>"it's not fair that I have to beat all the bosses in a row!"
Why? You beat them all at least twice, already, without dying. Just do it again. Fucks the problem?
And the whole "fairness" shit is baby talk. The boss fights are fair. They can kill you in way less hits than you can kill them, but they can't learn your attack patterns and adjust to how you fight.
Tldr git gud you actual fucking child.

Team Cherry said something to the effect of "we don't want there to be one true canon ending" so Silksong will either be a prequel or will give no hints as to what happened in Hallownest, short of "the infection is gone"

>he wants a challenge
>cannot beat all the boss to unlock it
GIT GUD FAGGOT.

They only hid one ending behind it, the final boss is just a stronger version of the original final boss.

I'm betting Dark Souls 1 is your favorite and you fervently defend the second half of the game, including Ornstein and Smough

>Why? You beat them all at least twice, already, without dying. Just do it again. Fucks the problem?
The problem is it's tedious, and extremely punishing. All it takes is for one slip, one mistake, or just for you to fail to dodge that one hit from NKG, Pure Vessel or Absolute Radiance, and you have to spend another hour before you get back to where you were.

>And the whole "fairness" shit is baby talk. The boss fights are fair. They can kill you in way less hits than you can kill them
The boss fights are fair, having to redo every boss fight in the game if you fail in one of them isn't. Reading comprehension, big brain

Full offense, the shorter the fight the better your odds of survival. If you put charms for a spell build you can take out a decent chunk of his. HP by casting from afar.