Westerners always get mad at the thought of japanese games are about killing god/religion bad, but I think there's a theme of it.
Being an anti-Christian country where the japs deduce the brainwashing/indoctrination of christians, they are inspired by Gnosticism belief of the ancient Greece where they believe the current "God" that rules the world right now is an evil entity that seeks to dominate mankind i.e. the Demiurge, while the true Creator wants to enlighten/elevate mankind.
This kind of philosophy is deep and was presented in renaissance Europe, but somehow it was stomped out after WW2.
It actually mostly comes from the Japanese public's view of Aum Shinrikyo which used a heavy amount of Christian and western mysticism in their indoctrination. The cult is also where the country gets a great deal of its "evil cult abducting people and performing experiments" theme you see every now and then.
Parker Rivera
This thought is mainly presented in the most brainwashed christians, being the evanglicals in the USA.
They are basically heretics and live lives full of vices yet calling everyone else heretic.
USA also strangely allows the unironic Church of Satan existing alongside the christian population.
Evan Turner
You're close to a real point. I suggest you read works on the remaining Nag Hammadi scriptures. The Japanese aren't just inspired by Gnostic ideas, but many unpopular, occult ideas rejected in the west. PSI, magick, and western esotericism feature greatly in many Japanese video games.
Jace Peterson
Nah, anti-Christian thought has been a thing since Tokugawa noticing christian missionaries being the main source of riot in Edo.
This is why they ban Christianity because it disrupts the social order there.
Charles Bell
Yeah, all of these come from renaissance Europe, specifically Germany and France.
It is kind of weird that Japan is where that stuff flourishes after WW2, I guess the persecution of both coomies and christians in the West drive them there.
Lincoln Diaz
The Church of Satan is based, also there's nothing wrong with being a heretic, code word for bad goy.
Church of Satan is vulgar occultism and is based around being anti-Christianity than searching for ancient knowledge.
It's ironic that most satanists were christians or then become born-again christians in the USA.
In fact, I would say that the God/Satan dichotomy is a false one.
Luke Martin
I would also add that while Bloodborne contains Gnostic themes, From Software's most Gnostic game is Demon Souls. The Old One is revealed to be both reviled and worshipped by the Church, as well as being portrayed with the cry of a hungry child. The Maiden-in-Black, for her role, is the Sophia, punished for her sins by being sealed from light, and takes a motherly role over both the player and the Old One. You on the other hand, play a Christlike figure with the power of resurrection, who uses the power of collective souls to either redeem or doom reality.
Carter Davis
Bloodbornes is kinda ambivalent on Gnosticism and actually more pure occultist.
The moon presence isn't necessarily evil, just unknowable. The goal of the protag is to increase his awareness/enlightened so that he can see what is hidden, which is the point of occultism.
Gavin Taylor
But yeah, it's crazy the amount of Divine Feminity/Goddess/Prophetess stuff is in jap games.
Shin Megami Tensei is originally about the resurrection of the goddess.
Bentley Anderson
Yes, and unfortunately, there's very little interest into that major theme. It follows a traditional Fool's Journey, much more obliquely than the Persona games, mind you, which signpost every major relationship with Tarot cards, but the archetypes are there.
I would argue however that the Moon Presence is knowable, however. She's the Goddess of Hunting, making her the most ancient and powerful driver of life. She's portrayed as both a headless angel, spilling blood for the masses, and in-game as being skeletal and basal, the brainstem being the most ancient of structures in neural biology. When you kill her, you disconnect your ties with instinct, and become a new being unconcerned with survival or hunting.
This is games like Bloodbornes stick out, it resonates with the thinkers and the subconscious, you want to see it, the hidden.
Jaxson Hall
Save it for your thesis faggot
Samuel Collins
There is no thesis to be made, because we are living in an occult world user.
Politics is just the face.
Parker Harris
This nigga woke
Mason Richardson
>play a Christlike figure
Can't agree with that. Takes more than reviving after death be Christlike. You don't really redeem anything either, you just become the new temporary lock on the cage.
Adrian Nguyen
Nah, you just surpass your own existence and become something new.
Jose Richardson
I don't get why people think the "you kill god at the end" is somehow an anti-christian thing If I had to justify it, if a god needs killing, it wasn't the true God, but a usurper that was trying to corrupt the creation of the true God that still remains unknown to you. I would say that, but I'm not a believer in any religion so I don't know if this is an acceptable explanation to an actual believer
That's the idea, the mainstream Christians/Islamics are about submitting to god, if you go against god, you are evil. Simple as.
Lucas Hall
>I don't get why people think the "you kill god at the end" is somehow an anti-christian thing Typically the "god" at the end of a game that features something like this tends to be the creator of all living things and existence itself while being either omnipotent or omnipresent. It's not a pantheon, there are no lesser "gods", it's just a god. One. Usually some sort of servants involved as well but Persona is the only thing I can think of that goes to that extent and Persona isn't about any religion, it just mashes everyone's beliefs into this weird ball of its own concoction not really aiming to take aims at anything but its own story. Didn't Bayonetta sort of do the thing with Heaven and Hell but it was its own weird spin on things and their version of God was just a guy sitting up there akin to Zeus?
At the same time, even if it is supposed to be a stand-in for God then it makes no sense as an attack on Christians because God can't be killed so anything they're attacking is a false god or something equivalent and getting mad about it makes no sense. God can't be hurt, can't be fought, you would literally disappear in the blink of an eye because there's nothing -to- fight. Imagine attacking air, that's basically what you'd be doing, and then you'd disappear from existence. Even with your magical "God Killer" sword you'd be erased from existence before you could even think about lifting your finger let alone the sword itself.
Ryder Barnes
It's true that resurrection does not a Christ make, but I would argue that willingly sacrificing yourself for the sake of humanity and the stability of existence also helps. The central conflict of the game is between an orderly world of knights and castles and a chaotic, gray world of fog and demons. You prove, by your valor and will, that the world changes according to your rules, and you become either a Monumental, an anchor of stability for "normal" existence" or a Demon lord, ruler of nothing and everything.
I would also mention that while Christ often goes unmentioned in many Gnostic texts, many Japanese games and manga with Gnostic theming feature a hero willing to die for humanity and able to resurrect.
Thomas Russell
That's the thing.
The belief is that if the god shows itself and is knowable, it can be killed.
This is similar to Buddhist where if one claims to be Buddha, slay it.
Buddha/the god is meant to be unknown. The moment it stops being that, it's just another being that can be hurt and killed.
Henry Scott
That would be because the Christian understanding of God is underpinned by centuries of legalistic language entirely separate from original version of the Christian deity. All of his human attributes have been utterly eclipsed by Jesus Christ, and all that remains is the concept of an old, shining patriarch who wants you to follow the rules.
Grayson Parker
Jesus Christ, to be more correct, is less a god but more of a heroic archetype like Herakles or Perseus.
His sacrifice is supposed to be the slaying the dragon moment, but christians end up worshiping him for that.
Adam Smith
Gnostics generally like Jesus Christ and see him as a messenger from the true lord.
Chase King
The whole concept of facing God is a fucking doozie. If it's A god from a Parthenon, it's more manageable, but The God is as you said an impossibility by the sheer fact that he is indeed God and he would basically encompass all existence.
Zachary Peterson
Depend on if he's knowable or not.
If he can be perceived, he can be killed.
Aaron Green
>If he can be perceived, he can be killed. That makes no sense. Even if you could perceive God if God already knows everything that ever can and will happen and can do anything at any point then you would never even get to the "can be killed" part. You would literally fade from existence on any attempt made before it even got to a point where you could harm God in the first place. It's categorically impossible to get to such a point, period.
Charles Fisher
Not what the japs believe.
If you can give it a name, and give it boundaries, you project it into existence.
And if it can exist, it can be killed.
And to be honest, I agree with the japs. Their idea is existence depending on will, even if the creator/Prometheus is dead, the willed humanity can live on and maintain its existence.
Kayden Wood
It's not deep at all and it's even dumber than the christian god.
Ryan Parker
How exactly?
The christian god, at the very moment, is contradictory and self-destructive due to the amount of sects and organized religions who do not believe in it yet use it for socio-economic purpose.
Lucas Edwards
His sacrifice is less Chaoskampf and more Dying-and-rising deity, a mytheme that repeats across many unconnected cultures. The concept of a holy king's death fueling the verdant resurrection of a kingdom is essentially universalized in Christ.
If said God is omnipotent, being perceivable would be a conscious choice. I don't think that a being like that, even if being able to be perceived in any way, would be capable of being harmed
>Not what the japs believe. Sure, but what they believe within the confines of this argument would be completely incorrect. You cannot harm that which can will you out of existence, knows everything you can ever do and all the branches out of that all at the exact same time, created you and everything around you, would have to purposely show himself willingly to even be manifest, etc. God in this instance would have to willingly wish to be killed, and you can't kill God otherwise it's not God, it's a god which means you're not fighting God himself which isn't possible at all. Again, you would literally be willed out of existence without a second though, without any hand being raised, without ever getting anywhere close to your goal.
Imagine this scenario for instance: >Protagonist exists. >Decides he's going to be edgy and fight God. >God decides to whisper him out of existence at the level 1 town before his quest even starts which takes no effort at all, could be done without even moving, doesn't require anything special to perform let alone physical contact, and would happen before the text box even came up that protag wants to fight God. >Game ends.
They don't grasp that this isn't a being that can be harmed even if manifest. It's impossible from any scenario. You can't harm God, you can't restrain God, you can't approach God, just seeing the light emanating from God melts people's minds and causes them to go prostrate instantly, God already knows everything you can and ever will do, God created everything you have, had, and ever will have, etc. You essentially need to downgrade God to a lesser being just to pretend there's even a chance for a human to stand up to him, and at that point you're basically fighting the equivalent of a Greek god who has some control over reality but not much and is subject to reality's rules.
