Fact: If Sonic hadn't gone the more serious and edgy direction with Sonic Adventures 1 and 2...

Fact: If Sonic hadn't gone the more serious and edgy direction with Sonic Adventures 1 and 2, he would have never suffered the downfall he had, and would still be a viable competitor to Mario.

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faggot

>Adventure 1 and 2
>Serious and edgy
>Both of them are the equivalent of your light hearted shonen stories
>Adventure 2 is the best shonen story ever told

Nah. The cringy, needlessly-serious stories were indeed a factor, but it also happened due to SA1/SA2's departure to what people initially liked about Sonic games. Instead of characters already having abilities, you have to unlock them through boring hubworld puzzles. Instead of different characters having similar playstyles as Sonic like the 2D games did with Tails and Knuckles, non-Sonic/non-Shadow characters are slow and control worse.
Heroes could've saved the series but the terrible controls and overly long levels made it fall flat.

>Cringy
>Needlessly serious
Examples?

Everything regarding Shadow and Chaos for one.

Why is it "needlessly" serious? Sonic can't have serious stories?

>colorful animal series starts having a story about a bioengineered super being crying over the government killing a human girl

>NOOOO YOU CAN'T HAVE SERIOUS MOMENTS IN SONIC IT NEEDS TO BE LIKE MARIOOOOOO

Nigger, Mario has gotten the mature treatment several times and I've never seen anyone complain about it.

Sonic can have serious stories in it, bar none. It all takes good design and art direction.

Oh, look. We got a triggered adventure baby here. Get ready for a thread whining about how it's unfair that people laugh at serious Sonic stories.

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You make a serious story by making a serious story. It's that simple. Just the fact that Sonic is a colorful world of talking animals doesn't prevent that at all.

>all caps "NOOOOOO" post
>still trying to push the failed classicpedo meme
Holy shit, you're the same autist in very sonic thread. Don't you get any sleep?

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Sonic became a laughing stock with Shadow and 06 and both of those game drove up the ridiculous in their stories to levels neither Adventure games reached. They were also accompanied with being terrible games.
There isn't a single person on the planet that doesn't get hyped up when Live and Learn and Open Your Heart starts blasting.

Mario and Luigi Series was serious.
Also
>Super Mario Galaxy has a serious story about Rosalina.
>Is the best selling WII game of all time.
Cope

I would argue it was more caused by shadow and heroes.

a character with development?,it would be a shame if we cut that for the sequel, right user?

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It's funny how simply mocking the early 3d era games' plots rile up the most autistic sonicfags on Yas Forums so easily.

I remember Rosalina's mom getting gunned down too. Was really depressing.

I remember being an only child crashing landing on a planet to nearly die until a luma came and saved her.

Face it Classicpedo you have no argument.

yeah the awful designs, horrible voice acting, batshit ridiculous writing, and absurd story are what do that, the chibi multicolored anthropomorphic animals are just the icing on the cake
I was almost moved to tears when the blue hedgehog activated his super sayain mode to take out the kaiju lizard in space, truly a story alongside the odyssey
fucking delusional autist are you seriously going to continue embarrassing yourself

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Shadow and 06 were the natural progression of the Adventure non-sense.

Because most of their arguments boil down to
>"NOOOOOOOO SONIC CAN'T HAVE SERIOUS STORIES BECAUSE OF SOME RANDOM ASS GOAL POST!"

I said you have to have the right direction. If you had any actual reading comprehension or grammar skills you would've realized that.

They hated him because he told the truth. Get ready for more /sthg/ tears.

>Mario got the serious treatment several times and succeeded.
Oh yeah, I remember that Mario game that dealt with apocalyptic monsters of the week and underage girls getting shot.

>There isn't a single person on the planet that doesn't get hyped up when Live and Learn and Open Your Heart starts blasting.
Lmao what planet are you Adventurefags living on? Seriously. This is ridiculous. Those songs are enjoyed ironically at best by most people that aren't on the spectrum.

See above. Mario's version of "serious" is way different than Sonic's. This isn't even up for debate.

But that's the thing, right? She didn't die. And we didn't need to have a scene that depicted the moment of her mother's death either spelled out for us. You could argue the execution is just better for Mario, but I think it's more than that. I think Mario games know when to fucking stop on how serious they get. Oh, and friendly reminder that this is all completely optional and easily missed side lore that isn't even in the main game's plot at all.

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>Live and Learn and Open Your Heart
Nah, shitty dated pop-punk from the 00'. I don't care at all.

you dont have a statement to argue
theres nothing serious about galaxy, that plotline there was resolved within two pages of a children's storybook within the E rated nintendo game, are you somehow comparing that to legitimate human struggles

Yes but both of them still have serious stories correct? Why is it suddenly okay when Mario does it?
>"MUH DIRECTIONNNN!"
So what? You've just proved my point that Sonic can have serious stories if they go in the right direction with it.

oh I read your post but it seemed to imply that sonic adventure somehow had the right direction for a serious story or was somehow not a horribly written mess that is laughed at to this day

Just look at Sonic. It's a fuckin blue cartoony hedgehog with giant eyes. It's kinda obvious that any serious plot made for these characters would be stupid and out of place.

>Apocalyptic monsters of the week and underage girls getting shot.
I also remember mario games about groups of people getting enslaved and entire universes being erased.

Too bad there never ever was a time they went in the right direction with it. Closest it ever got was the original Sonic Adventure but they went full retard once Shadow joined the cast.

Wrong. If Sonic 06 wasn't so poorly designed, at least the gameplay could salvage it. The series is dead, well, blighted now because it's "meta" and "self aware". It's just kicking it's corpse around for laughs, circle jerking classic games while forcing this drivel that is modern sonic down our throats.

Mario never had any serious stories. It's all fairy tales stuff

Nothing about that prevents serious stories.
>"LOOK HE'S A TOONY HEDGEHOG!"
Nigger please.

no not correct
neither of them had a serious story
how many times does this need to be said
to be honest I cant believe it even needs to be said

god fucking forbid you ever play a real story that deals with legitimate human struggle and serious themes, a game like lisa for example

>What is Mario and Luigi
>What is Super Paper Mario
>What is Super Mario RPG
Cope

Yes, it prevents. It's called artistic consistency.

Shadow wasn't even that badly written in SA2. It was once he got his own game and lost his memory it went full tard mode.

give me an example of a serious moment in sonic adventure, let's see if it really holds any real narrative weight

???

I think a huge reason Sonic went the way it did was the shape Sonic Team was in after the Dreamcast died and the Sega/Sammy merger. They were already starting to bleed employees and by the time Sonic 06 came out a lot of senior employees had left.

Hell, look at Sonic Forces and how the majority of the staff are new. Everyone major who was involved with Sonic at its peak has left and Sega can barely afford to develop games anymore.

>It's called artistic consistency.
You tell a serious story by telling a serious story nigger. Mario did it several times.

It wasn't really much about the direction of Adventure, considering that Adventure was more or less born out of just a another way to make Sonic feel new to it's audiences. The only game that should not happen was Sonic 06, espically considering after they made Sonic Heroes, which was clearly a step in the right direction for the series since it was just them figuring out the groove for Sonic series as like it was for Sonic 2.

Sonic 06 was just a mess of misguided opinions on what made Adventure good. They thought darker and more realistic automatically means it's better, along with the dumb as hell Disney-tier story of a hedgehog having a relationship with a Disney princess. Even though the series has always been just a hedgehog saving the world from a scientist who makes robots for a living, or trying to gain power to power his latest ultimate gizmo for the control to change the world to what he wants. It was almost like Sonic 06 was made by a third-party with no knowledge of the series at all, just the same thing as countless third party Sonic games and media.

I mean, I'll list it to see what's wrong with it.
>Serious story with a dumb romantic story with a Disney princess, to push Sonic is mature and cool even though he is already is without showing it.
>Zones taken from generic FPS games with no identity from previous games
>No cohesion between Sonic characters and it's environment. Even those shitty cartoon stuck in a real world movies did it even better than Sonic 06 did.
>Pushed for the "hardcore" FPS gamers at the time, instead of doing it's own thing at the time

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Sonic really just needed to not talk, that's all. His demeanor didn't need dialog.

Sonic already had serious stories in the classic games.
>Animals being used as slaves for a robot army
>Angel Island getting pillaged for the master emerald and causing many creatures to lose their homes.

It's all about the direction in which you take it. SA2 sort of went tard mode with the direction.

this is grasping at straws legitimately
do you actually believe those had dark moments of the seriousness of life and were intended for an introspective breakdown of thier adult themes?

Yes?
Super Paper Mario dealt with
>Slavery
>Divorce
>Entire universes getting erased

Fact: The total IQ of every eranigger on the planet combined is 0.

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>Girl getting gunned down
>Government conspiracies
These arguments have been used multiple times and it's clear it's one faggot spamming them. You can have a cartoon animal with an engaging and suspenseful story. Adventure 1/2 is how you do it, Archie is how you DON'T. Even Shadow the Hedgehog and '06 were fine, it was the games' overall quality that was the problem, not the stories or all the multiple friends the reviewers whined about, mistaking the comics for the games.

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1. No, Mario didn't. They are aware of being on a fairy-tale universe. Also, fuck Mario, we are discussing Sonic, not him.
2. If a character wasn't made with a serious tone in mind, he will not work on a serious story at all. It will be ironic at best, cringe-worthy at worse. That's how tone and artistic consistency works, you will not put fuckin Mickey Mouse on a Last of Us game or anything like that.

>Mickey Mouse was never in a serious story
>What is Epic Mickey.

>edgy
is there a more reddit word than this? why does everything have to be a le ironic marvel quipfest now or it's shit?

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This.

>Mickey Mouse was never in a serious story
youtube.com/watch?v=K-JlevnccDk

Also all the characters were redesigned with serious stories in mind. They weren't viewed as regular cutesy animals but more like super powered mutant creatures that stood out from the humans.

this is true but it's not far off from what I would expect a saturday morning cartoon villain would do, and to be honest that's really all robotnik is
its adversity sure, but serious themes? I dont really think so, I dont think any kids playing the game would lose sleep over thinking about it

Jesus christ the fag doesn't want to understand

I remember someone on Yas Forums posted a video that was like haha look at all these SA2 plot holes, oh wait everything makes sense and it is a cool story. Anyone have that? It very plot centric and not about the overall game.

Don't you guys get tired of shitting up the board? Go back to working on ROMhack Mania 2.

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The classic games had serious stories too.
>Animals getting used as slaves
>Angel Island getting pillaged.
You're mostly arguing against the direction they took it in, not the fact that it can have serious stories if done right.

Wrong. There's a lot of problems with sonics jump to 3D but the redesign is not one of them.

>JESUS CHRIST HE'S DEBUNKING ALL MY POINTS AND I'M SEETHING

lol yeah and remember how that was a complete failure and was laughed off as some fanfic tier edgy nonsense then forgotten within a month, sure was taken real seriously there wasnt it?

How retard someone can be... There is nothing serious here, it's a cartoon from 33, at that time gags are a bit more harsh, but that doesn't make it any serious.

Is that really true, though? Who's to say some other bullshit wouldn't have happened? Although Adventure and Adventure 2 are definitely, 100% responsible for turning the fanbase into a bunch of screaming autists due to how much the gameplay changed.

well you have yet to make a single coherent idea that has any reason to be taken seriously
the only one coping here is you

Epic Mickey consistently gets high scores wherever it's reviewed. It has a good direction. Cope more.

No you dumb ass. This is not a "story", it's a setting - that is completely softened by the non-serious tone of the classic games.

It is a story. That's the elements of the story. Where is there "Non seriousness" in the classic games?