Dude, fight big gov!

If she actively fought against the government using her as a tool then that would mean she would have to overthrow it and take their place.
Which would lead to big hypocrisy because then she would end up using others as tools as well. It just happens.

>If BiBo had any sense, he would have become a politician and actually affected some change.
You're retarded, that's still actively fighting against the government. What The Boss wanted Snake to do was unironically cuck himself, he took this as "SOLDIERS SHOULD BE UNITED" then he took it again as "SHE WANTED WORLD PEACE, WHAT A TRAITOR!"

>she

neither are politicians

Having a dream, telling someone of your dream, and being able to fulfill it, are all quite different things.

She was fucked and was doing her best to unfuck what Volgin had wrought while telling Big Boss of she felt things should be.

>Fighting for what she believed in.
Fighting by losing isn't fighting user. It's pussying, cucking, etc. What The Boss did was that.

She prevented WWIII

By not going against what she hated and instead living by it.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You're fucking retarded to think any of that makes sense.

She's said you should not follow orders blindly if it means you jave to kill innocent people

Then why did she followed orders blindly and cucked her own life for the government's sake instead of not doing that and instead having Snake join with her to fight against this shit?

She wanted wars to end by destroying borders and a need for soldiers. Her idea was retarded and would simply end with more bloodshed and new borders from new factions rising up. Her worldview was incredibly basic. Big Boss is a far more compelling character than her.
I think it's more he was inevitably disgusted by her weakness. As someone who has spent his whole life fighting and training, and never surrendering, despite the odds, to have his mentor and mother-figures life ethos to give up and be used by the government, one that he has grown to despise over time, is what turns him against her.
Not just her. Because of the success of Peacewalker Kojima made everything related to big boss and his friends. It's so fucking retarded. Suddenly Big Bosses best friends during operation snake eater are now the patriots, despite being grunts in a bigger world, and they somehow manipulate everything. They should have had Big Boss going against the original wise men and the 20 unknown men in MGS2, instead of this retarded shit.

Did you play the game?Volgin fired a us made nuke imto a russian facility, if snake did not kill volgin and the boss, wwiii would ensue.

Success of snake eater, my bad.

Why can't Snake just kill Volgin and not kill The Boss?

No it didn't, it was a contrivance forced on the story for Big Boss to become hardened against the Gov. He could have said he killed her, took the patriot data for the philosophers legacy and told her to start a new life. It's not like they ever get her body. And there is the implication by the fight killing you in like 13 minutes due to air bombing, it'd all be dust later anyway. So far as the world is concerned Jack killed the boss and is a hero. But this doesn't work to make Jack into Big Boss, to turn him against the U.S. Her death was forced to make Jack become Big Boss.

Oh yeah and she mentions before the fight that the place will be bombed in 13 minutes right before you battle.

Yeah, big boss buddies being related to everything was dumb. They weren't even important on Snake Eater, than out of sudden Kojima made Zero the big baddie out of nowhere. He just talked about movies in Snake Eater.

She spent her entire life repressed into the role of soldier, and now given the order to die, she experiences severe personal regret and tries to salvage a life wasted in service by unloading a lifetime of repressed emotions and memories onto her student, relieving herself with the hope that Jack will make something of her wasted life. The incoherency of the Boss’ career and her final statements is due to the fact that service to her country had destroyed her and only now in dying she has the option to finally say what she truly believes

Becoming the despot of a nuclear powered military nation is being a politician

Thank you user, I wanted to say this but couldn't

War is simply politics by other means.

Mostly

If she thought against the US government then she wouldn't be letting the world be.

>But the US fought against the Nazis, wouldn't that be not letting the world be?
Except that they weren't trying to replace their government, they were only just getting rid of Nazi influence. Big difference.

Because Volgin engineered it to the public The Boss had fired the nuke on Russian soil. The Russian Ultranationalists under Brezhnev and Volgin took this as an American attack on Russia, and only by an American agent assassinating The Boss could they prove it wasn’t a covert US attack on Russia

Why are you wasting your time to replaying to someone who thought that typing and posting "cucked her own life"?

The Boss’ mental journey mirrors that of WW1 and WW2 veterans, and Zero’s actions to solve it mirror the creation of a globalist war-managing superstate in response to that journey

I think people really have trouble grasping this story takes place in the 1960s and the battles they’re talking about occur between nations, they simply didn’t fear a globalist superstate when coming to these ideas

These. The people you are arguing with are children that know nothing about the world before their time. Folk who grew up in either of the big wars would probably think like The Boss.

Mind if I interject and talk about something other than what faggot OP wants to discuss? All this discussion on The Boss's will is getting pretty stale, always the same misinterpretations every thread and never a conclusion, despite that MGS4 effectively states what her will actually was and only will ever be: "Let the world fucking be." Let's turn this shit thread into a good Metal Gear thread.

Looking back on V's ending, I wondered about Big Boss's nature in that tape. A director footnote from the translation script that silently leaked gives an insight.
>元シナリオのポイントは、スネークが本当に感謝して、いつになく直接的な表現を使っていること……ということを考えると、やはり"Thank you... my friend."のままが良いかも。
>The point of the scenario is that [Big Boss] really appreciates it and uses direct expressions. When you think about it, "Thank you... my friend." should remain.
Now that I think of it, it does seem like he was trying to be genuine but while not realizing that he was unconsciously being a hypocritical asshole at the same time.
researchgate.net/post/Can_someone_manipulate_someone_else_unintentionally

Thoughts?

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 74.69K)

Something like that. Big Boss basically has his own warmongering personality, that he bolsters as virtuous due to this memory of The Boss he holds dear. What Big Boss has done really has nothing to do with The Boss, he just takes The Boss’ final words as permission to achieve his highest personal ambition, which is to create a rogue nuclear state to rival and destroy the wills of the government that had wronged The Boss. Her words are sweet and emotional, but Big Boss is still a nuclear madman using her words as an excuse, whether he knows it or not

Yeah, to me it's one of the calling cards of kojimas work taking a nosedive. I don't know if that was a fukushima thing or something else, I just know his plotlines got very basic later one and fan service-y.
I don't put much thought into translators opinions. And from what I saw from the cutscene Venom was not happy. Also, being appreciative means nothing when one is being used, and everything they are is destroyed in service to another for that persons self advancement and them not being willing to fight their own battles themselves.

I guess I wrote a contradiction there - I mean to say, Big Boss uses The Boss’ life to justify taking his lifetime as a soldier to its extreme ambition - independence and the ability to supersede governments using violence

>All these people ITT misinterpreting what the Boss wanted
Oh the irony

>I don't put much thought into translators opinions
This is from the directors talking to the translators, not the translators. Learn to read.
>. And from what I saw from the cutscene Venom was not happy
Venom is not Big Boss idiot. VENOM DOES NOT SAY THE LINE. I was clearly talking about Big Boss, he's the guy that the comment is talking about. Fuck off.

Venom legitimately believes in service towards his men, and the role of Outer Heaven as a brotherhood for soldiers abused by the world. Venom’s work in saving and uniting these soldiers is justified to him, even alongside hate for the abuse of Big Boss. Also Venom is a type of insane person with a highly compartmentalized self-image as both a savior and a demon

Pretty sure she just gave up and let the world be. I understood what kojima meant by that in mgs4.

sheeesh chill

He didn’t give up, he fought tooth and nail until he died multiple times, and came back to fight again even in MGS4 where he still manages to locate and destroy all surviving Patriot leadership before admitting he caused all the problems and it’s best that he be dead, as he lays dying

>it's underages discuss politics
Only mgs series capable producing a cancer like this

Whoops I read that as BB
The Boss never gave up physically, she fought to the death and served her nation directly the entire time, all the whole admitting she is indoctrinated into a war machine that has crushed her emotionally and that she is too far within to escape

>If she actively fought against the government using her as a tool then that would mean she would have to overthrow it and take their place.
>Which would lead to big hypocrisy because then she would end up using others as tools as well. It just happens.
Pretty much what happen to Big Boss

Exactly

>people think The Boss is actually Christlike
I mean, in a way, but she was intensely human and taken her words as that of a saint is directly what caused the problems in MGS

Pretty sure MGS3 hinted it on

I think he was trying to say "Big Boss's words might have been genuine but Venom didn't react happy to them"

The only problem with The Boss’ deep state disciples creating a new world order is that it was infodumped on us in one cutscene of MGS4. The idea itself is stellar

/thread

>"A director footnote"
>"translators opinions"
nice one ESL

99% of Politicians are owned by the rich and wealthy. This is why nearly all policies have shifted to more and more for the wealthy and less and less for everyone else.

this , the whole reason big boss went mental with his ideas is because he himself misinterpreted the boss ideas , same as zero did

OK, so? My main point still stands, Big Boss may have been trying to be appreciative if that's what the directors really meant, but trying to be appreciative when you're actually being an asshole without even knowing it is equivalent to being an asshole, not being appreciative.

TL;DR
>muh

My point was it doesn't matter what big boss says when his past actions show he cares little for Venom, which is if you're assuming they're not the same person, which is another bag of worms. You're very emotional about a basic conversation, you should calm down.
Well, the big boss reveal only comes after all that, and we see venom eventually succumbs to that bloodlust and "Big Boss spirit".
Although I wouldn't say he believes he's saving them, I think he feels forced into the situation and indebted to what he built to stop skullface and get "revenge" though it never seemed to matter to him, and then tries to use his position as a vain hope to follow the Boss towards peace, where he won't need to fight anymore.