What are your thoughts on the Adults Only ESRB rating?

Basically pointless, it's like the NC-17 rating.

I don't have a problem with it. The vast majority of games recieve the AO rating because they are pornographic in nature. The only reason why Hatred got the rating is because it is a game where you play as a psychopath and your only goal is to literally kill as many innocent people as you can.

Why does that matter? All it shows is that hentai and porn games are not popular/not marketed much in the West. The people worried about the AO rating 'censoring' violent games have nothing to worry about. As long as the game is not pornographic, there is a 99.9999999% chance that it will not get the kiss of death rating.

I wish it was used more often.

There is no reason for it to be used more often. Unless it is a shitty hentai game or porn game, it will be rated M (with literally two exceptions). Not even hyper-violent and gory Doom Eternal got close to being rated AO.

Kinda pointless for anything other than a retail gatekeep. I get that regulations must be in place to keep little Timmy from buying porn games though so it's a necessary thing, but honestly most developers who do that sort of thing exploit other avenues to get that stuff out so whatever. If anything, it just means no big budget porn games, which is fine I suppose.

>Not even hyper-violent and gory Doom Eternal got close to being rated AO.
That's where I would like to see it used.

Why?

Saying that something happens "all the time" means that it happens frequently. In reality, very few pornographic games actually get rated by the ESRB.

Fair enough, I guess that my wording could have better. What I should have said is that games rarely recieve the AO rating and when they do, it is almost always because they are pornographic.

Because kids really shouldn't be playing ultra violent games, let alone sexy ones.
Here in the UK most ratings are done by PEGI but they'll bust out the BBFC 18 whenever it's appropriate because those little round logos are legally binding, unlike the PEGI ratings.

So your issue is that kids are able to purchase M-rated games? Making more games rated Adults Only won't change that; there is nothing that legally prevents a minor from buying an AO-rated game. The only reason why it is hard to buy them is because most retailers refuse to stock AO games and the three major console manufacturers (Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo) refuse to allow AO games on their platforms. The ESRB is not like the BBFC or the Australian Classification Board; the ratings do not come with legal restrictions at the federal level.

Just to be clear, I do agree that kids have no business playing very violent or sexual games. However, giving more games the Adults Only kiss of death won't fix that. It will just make life very hard for adult gamers who want to enjoy games like Doom, and it will almost certainly prevent deveopers from being able to turn a profit with their games.

What's to stop an adult gamer buying an AO-rated game via an internet retailer or digital distribution system?

Your point of view would have made sense in the retail era.
Nowadays, Steam, GOG.com (the biggest digital PC stores), GamersGate and FireFlower Games take AO-rated games.

What about people who play on console, or want physical copies of their games? No matter how you cut it, giving more games the AO rating makes no sense if your only goal is to prevent kids from getting their hands on violent or hyper-sexual games.

>or want physical copies of their games?
>you can't sell physical copies online, for some reason
>implying there are still physical copies for PC games
Huh?

As I recall, the big three won't even certify AO games for release on their platforms.
It's like the ATF and the NFA in that the regulations don't make a lick of sense.

Becuase that sooner or later would remove the stigma against the AO rating.
>"It's very possible that there will be greater acceptance of an AO rating going forward," she said. "And by the way, I think that would be a good thing for the system. It's very frustrating that publishers can't release AO product, in many cases."
gamasutra.com/view/news/168266/We_could_use_more_Adults_Only_games_says_ESRBs_Vance.php

That is why it is called the "kiss of death." Unless it is a very low-budget project or you have a huge dedicated audience on PC, it is impossible to make a financially viable AO-rated game.

Why don't they do this but with faggotry in games like the last of us or life is strange?

The GTA and COD games get the britbong equivalent of an AO rating and have been consistently at the top of the retail bestseller lists for donkey's years.

We've already established that the AO rating is almost exclusively used for porn games. There is no need to classify games as Adults Only if they are not pornographic. The rating really only exists to conform with pornography laws.

>We've already established that the AO rating is almost exclusively used for porn games.
That is where we differ. I don't think it should be that way. I don't like the "sex = BAD, violence = GOOD" mentality.
The ESRB doesn't like that mentality either.
>"You know, up to this point most people associate AO with sexual content," said Vance. "We've actually assigned AO ratings for violent content as well; it's just that most of the time that product gets edited or changed in order to warrant an M rating, so you never see it in the market."

>The rating really only exists to conform with pornography laws.
Like you have already said:
>there is nothing that legally prevents a minor from buying an AO-rated game.

PEGI 18 does not carry the same self-imposed restrictions on marketing and distribution that Adults Only does.

Not him. It's like using that rating more often will erase the stigma against it. Crazy, isn't it?

They wheel out the BBFC for GTA like it's a special occasion.

There really needs to be like a soft M and a hard M in america.

It brings up the question of what a good AO game would actually be. It's weird, because on one end, there's no point in showing the full on graphic sex required to clear that bar because there's already a bevy of more effective methods available in T-M without showing a poorly-rendered vag. Then on the other end of the spectrum, even if you made the game really good, it's still gotta be a porn game to reach AO, so you're either distracted by the sex or won't have the two hands needed to play it despite the aforementioned "sexiness of AO vs T-M" thing.

>soft M
M.
>hard M
AO.

In Europe this autistic behaviour of restricting one rating from consoles doesn't fly at all.

>..."it's just that most of the time that product gets edited or changed in order to warrant an M rating, so you never see it in the market."
I have to call BS on this one. Doom Eternal is super violent and gory, so I doubt that id Software was asked to censor their game. As for your second point, the reality is that many distributors don't want to risk selling porn to minors, nor do major console manufacturers want the bad PR that would come with publishing pornographic games on their systems.

Again, what is the point of making AO more common? Unless the game is in bad taste (i.e. Hatred) you have nothing to worry about unless you are making a porn game, in which case you should be able to turn a profit with no issue, since your budget won't be that large and there will be a small but dedicated audience of people who like that sort of thing.

No, then by that logic DOOM and GTAV is a soft M.

>Again, what is the point of making AO more common?
Removing the stigma against it (consoles in Europe can sell +18 games and no one gives a flying fuck) and that giving the same rating to Doom Eternal and Halo is retarded no matter how you look at it.

>"You know, up to this point most people associate AO with sexual content," said Vance. "We've actually assigned AO ratings for violent content as well; it's just that most of the time that product gets edited or changed in order to warrant an M rating, so you never see it in the market."
Bullshit, Mortal Kombat and Doom are violent as fuck, I doubt these recent games where censored. It's not the 90's anymore.

Make the ESRB's M apply to a lower age then? 15 as opposed to 17 then make AO apply to 18+.

How so?

It's a 2012 interview.

Because they aren't AO.

Ok.

But why should the stigma be removed? The primary purpose of the AO rating is prevent porn games from being normalised and to make it harder for minors to get their hands on them. Unless you have a craving for porn games and you can only play on console, then you have nothing to lose with the current arrangement.

I don't know about Europe (PEGI), but I know for a fact that even though we now have an R18+ rating for games in Australia, they are still frequently refused classification for being pornographic

Age ratings are the legit form of censorship.
Not making your game AO is only "optional" if you want to go out of business.

>The primary purpose of the AO rating is prevent porn games from being normalised
My favourite porn games are Manhunt 2 (PC version), Hatred and Peak Entertainment Casino.

>BLOOD GOOD CUM BAD

>Manhunt 2
That was a different time. The ESRB is far more tolerant now when it comes to violence.
>Hatred
A disgusting, dark, game where you play as a psychopath and your only goal is to indiscriminately kill as many innocent civilians as possible.
>Peak Entertainment Casino
A literal digital casino. You have to be an adult to engage in gaming (i.e. gambling) activities.

The fact is that in the vast majority of cases, AO only applies to pornographic games.

>A disgusting, dark, game where you play as a psychopath and your only goal is to indiscriminately kill as many innocent civilians as possible.
My favourite porn genre.

>AO only applies to pornographic games.
You know, in Europe all PEGI ratings can be released in consoles.
Yet, for some reason, they didn't end up with millions of minors buying pornographic games as far as I know. Unless you know something I don't...
I wonder how that happened.

By the way...
>A literal digital casino.
Isn't that the definition of the new Grand Theft Auto Online update?
youtube.com/watch?v=lX_IN4v-RnA
Are you going to tell me that Grand Theft Auto V isn't AO-worthy now?

It does its job well enough (i.e. making sure kiddies don't have easy access to hentai games and the like). The meme that it is used to censor violent games needs to go away.

It is objectively censorship. What is allowed to be depicted in games is limited because of the ratings. Unless you want to make 1/10000th the money you would otherwise make.
Just admit that you either are in favor of it or don't care enough to object to it.

I don't understand why gaming rating is stuck in 90's. It is perfectly normal for kids to have sex now at age 14 or so. Why should they be "protected" from hentai games if they already are surrounded by sex? I guess they try to lure them in by making it forbidden and mysterious.

Unless you are making a porn game or you are deliberately trying to get an AO rating, as was the case with Hatred, you have nothing to worry about. If Doom Eternal and Mortal Kombat can walk away from the ESRB with an M-rating, so can your violent game.
I did some research on this, apparantly the casino game forced players to use real money, while you can play the GTA casino games with in-game currency (which you don't need to buy with real money). I still think that it is a bit scummy, but I don't think it is fair to compare the two.

>It is perfectly normal for kids to have sex now at age 14 or so
That doesn't make it right. Porn also fucks with you developmentally.

The bane of coomers; I love it.