Why is the story of every JRPG rebel against the government/religion/authority?

It wouldve been cool if XV gave you the full backing of your kingdom vs another kingdom and the game's focus was about getting other nations to join you.

The gods and destiny and Jenova 2.0 shit ruined it

You never played FF12?
>Rebel kid with no parents runs away from home and finds a princess in disguise leading a rebellion against the evil empire with the help of a bandit and his near-human companion and their own starship

Seriously, no connection anywhere? It's no coincidence they throw Biggs and Wedge in every game ( they're actually in the Japanese versions as well) When FFXII came around they just said fuck it with being coy and made Star Wars.

You know what would be hilarious? If in a story about rebelling against the government the end result is the world falls into chaos. The government falls, but the follow up society is weak and dumb. So ripe for the picking for the hero's home to be invaded by a powerful neighboring country and he and all their friends get their asses murdered. So think similar Chrono Trigger's ending. That was hilarious and seeing so many faggots and losers cry about that bad end was just so much fun. The best part is that loser gamers are still ass hurt about Crono the loser mute who got his ass murdered along with everyone else.

Here's the real red pill:

Teenagers see the truth. They are more red pilled about the world than adults. The oldest you get the more the programming kicks in and you are simply glad because you have a big TV and can get your dick wet a few times a year. Teenagers are usually very poor and are treated like shit by everyone. They see the world for what it really is. They see how horrible the world really is. Adults simply got used to the sickness of the world, it became normality, also most of them had their dreams crushed and teenagers pick up on that.

I can see similar themes, I agree with that. I don't think they're influenced or retelling Star Wars though. Vagabond teenagers, banished royalty, and evil empires are pretty common tropes in general.

because you have played an extremely small number of jrpgs and that small number of jrpgs happen to share a trend.

Thing is, I'm a teenager.
I feel that rebellion itself is no longer meaningful because it's actually welcomed. Real rebellion isn't welcomed by the whole.

>Half the Final Fantasy games are just retelling Star Wars

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey

t. Ryuji Sakamoto

>FF4
>the villain who is clad in black armor is revealed to be the hero's relative
>the big bad is actually an emperor who dwells on a fake moon
Come on now, it's all there

on the other hand, this game not only takes no issue with authority of any kind but the templars are established from the VERY FIRST SECOND you meet them as creepy assholes and bribery is even explicitly mentioned but that never goes anywhere and we never find out the truth of the faith in dq8's world? I mean even the priests and the whole goddess thing is so vaguely creepy and stinky and it's never explored

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FFXV had one of the best stories in the series, it was just told poorly without the DLC.

Is persona 5 really worth it? All my friends have been shilling it but I'm too lazy to pirate it.

Okay I'll give you that.

that's most games.

It's not though.

FFXI
Windurst:
>magic gizmos are breaking, town's losing mana and it's causing disruption with the avatars, Fenrir interferes and decides not to kill everyone and then everything's fixed.
>Zilart
Turns out society's been ruled by the last 2 beings of an ancient race over 10,000 years old and they go on a power trip. You try to stop them from assembling the 5 crystals cuz they're using their power to summon evil spirits.
>CoP
story's too long and a clusterfuck to greentext, but basically the Emptiness is starting to consume the power in the crystal lines and spread, Bahamut tries to destroy the world but you tell him to fuck off, you find out Promathia is the one behind it all and you go kill him. Doing so makes the immortal loli main character mortal again and able to feel emotions. You finish up by going back to kill Bahamut
>Aht Urghan
pirates, blue mages and middle-eastern loli puppetmaster chick oh my! A big crystal powering the realm has problems and you fart around fixing it. No-one really actually did this storyline cuz there was no reward for completing it.
>WotG
you go back in time 20 years and try to prevent time traveling spirits from changing the future and trying to win the Great War for the beastmen. Again, no-one really completed this storyline cuz there rewards for completing it were crappy.
>Kupo De'tat
Moogles go on strike, they start a mafia, you go and kick the ass of the moogle who started it all
>Shantotto Ascension
The most powerful mage of any/all FF games accidentally splits herself into two; an evil half and a good half.
The evil half starts a world domination plan to try and turn everyone into clones of herself but you manage to open some magic portal which puts things right.
>all the other shit after this
no-one did or liked any content beyond this point which is why the game died and everyone plays Private servers now.

They honestly did an admirable job of trying to tie together Nomura's wet dream ramblings.

FFXVs story was jumbled, but in the end i think it became a story about conforming and not fighting against fate.
Its pretty fucked though because in the end the good guys were fucking retarded sociopaths all along.

Hell, I think it was only as good as it was due to Tabata's influence. Thankfully, a lot of Nomura's stuff was lost, aside from obvious things like the Armiger, the theme of night and sleep, and etc.

>ff1 against whats practically demons out to fuck the world
>ff2 against a specific empire thats been conquering and razing towns left and right
>ff3 Ive never beaten because its a slog
>ff4 against your own kingdom who is being controlled by moon and void people
>ff5 against a tree
>ff6 against a specific empire for half and against a psycho clown for the 2nd
>ff7 against the electric company
>ff8 against a magic bitch from the future
>ff9 against a kingdom being controlled by aliens and then your alien brother and his handler
>ff10 against religion and the demon it props up
>ff12 against a specific kingdom who has conquered a large portion of the map
>ff13 is the government and gods I think?
>ff15 is against your own ancestor whos using a rival empire as a puppet

FF1, 3, 5 aren't against government/religion/authority. You might even include 7, 8, and 9 if you consider the true enemies.

>Why is the story of every JRPG rebel against the government/religion/authority?
>Implying

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Yes it also fits into something that's, by design, broad enough that you can shoehorn pretty much and heroic adventure into it. What's your point?

Why is it whenever someone generalizes JRPGs, they only know Final Fantasy?
It was made quite clear in Dragon Quest VIII that the "church" and the Goddess themselves are not evil. It's just a few corrupt bishops and cardinals at the top. It's like you didn't even understand the plot about the Sage or Marcello, who were specifically trying to fight the corruption.

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Then you agree it's stupid to specify that it's copying Star Wars. Since both are also "copying" the Lord of the Rings, the Odyssey, and a thousand other stories that came before them.

Wild Arms 1 isn't.

>Sage or Marcello, who were specifically trying to fight the corruption
what the hell if by sage you mean francisco who is his descendant all he did was be a nice dude, he never actively fought shit
as for marcello he literally plotted to overthrow the high priest, he was a piece of shit and a huge letdown of a character, when you meet him in maella abbey he seems troubled and like the sort of guy you won't get along with but by no means does he appear to be villainous, far from it
and then suddenly he decides to kill the damn high priest and proclaim himself high priest
and don't say it was the scepter because is is made clear when you defeat him that rhapthorne hadn't actually managed to take control of him

ANYWAY, I was talking about the feeling I got from the church and the templars in general, it might have only been my impression but imo they game set both up for some development and reveals and then didn't do it, I didn't get a feeling like I was supposed to consider them good guys
empyrea on the other hand is presented as 100% good, even when you fight her you're made to feel like something's going wrong

Yeah that's really stupid. Good example FF7. So you've destroyed Shinra and smashed the establishment. So everything should be fine... right? Well everyone just decided to stop using Mako which the world economy is built on. So where is everyone going to get their energy now? Could you imagine what would happen if fossile fuels were globally banned tomorrow? Everything would fall apart. No one would give a fuck about the effects on the environment because we're fucked right now. But more than that there's a massive, gaping power vacuum on Gaia right now. Shinra ran the entire world. Any other cultures or governments have been assimilated into the collective and now that collective is dead. There should be a lot of fighting and uprisings about now and any Shinra generals sitting on an assload of ordinance from the old world order, like Junon, would become the dominant force in what would amount to the wild wild west. And Wutai should be jumping at the chance to shake off their bonds. Actually there should be quite a lot of fighting about who's in charge about now. There's also the fact the paranoia when everyone becomes aware that they were attacked by honest to God aliens. Everyone would be looking at the skies knowing that not only is there life out there but it's hostile to them.

Teenagers don't think that far. They see life like an action movie. You smash the establishment and then somebody will eventually pick up the pieces. There are reasons why the world is the way it is and no matter how wise you are you'll never stomp out all the corruption.

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People have been citing the similarities since the SNES was around and the games themselves throw Star Wars characters in as a nod to the movies in every fucking game. No Final Fantasy lines up 1 to 1 with Star Wars (Rogue Galaxy decided to step up to the plate and do that), but it's pretty obvious that it's drawing on that specific take on the motif. In any case I think you can see there's a difference between saying "There are similarities between these stories" and
"there's a similarity between this story and this outline that's supposed to unite all hero stories from all cultures"

If you're into 150+ hours of pokemon/dating sim hijinks, absolutely.

>rebel against authority

You may have well just said "Why do they all have a protagonist and antagonist"

>No Final Fantasy lines up 1 to 1 with Star Wars
idk if you're the op, but that's a far cry from the post that said
>Half the Final Fantasy games are just retelling Star Wars

Are there any JRPGs where the empire is a good entity and destroying it is seen as an unequivocal bad thing?

What about a JRPG where the good guys are the empire and the bad guys are the rebels?

Romancing SaGa 2 has already been posted.
In that game YOU are the empire and the last line of defense for mankind.

Fire Emblem.
The Last Remnant.

Probably more, I don't really pay attention to such drivel.

Thanks for my next game

The Last Remnant is considerably more complex than Empire Good/Rebels Bad or the reverse

I'm sorry if I used hyperbole on a mexican sombrero weaving board, but Final Fantasy has broadly used Star Wars as a template. Go bring back some more freshman english university material so you have more material to make pedantic arguments with.

less using Star Wars as a template and more drawing from the same template Star Wars did.

Given the actual state of the various political 7d chess plot in TLR, the empire "kind of" is the antagonist faction, but as user says, it's a lot more complex than that.
Outside of Hermeien who's a relatively minor figure, there's hardly any clear good guys VS bad guys scenario in TLR.

The Conqueror is evil, user.

He kills people for a living.

The hero and the empire doesn't. They don't even wage war against anyone, they just do practice battles among counties.

>The Conqueror is evil, user.
He really isn't.
>He kills people for a living.
He doesn't, he doesn't even need a living in the first place, have you been paying attention to the plot at all?

FF games not about rebelling against the government/religion/authority
>FF1
>FF3
>FF5
>(Arguably FF8)

I'll even throw in a mention for FFT. "But FFT is about fighting against the church" (You) say. Well, who the fuck AREN'T you fighting against in FFT?
>Fight against church
>Fight against demons
>Fight against your house
>Fight against the other throne claimants
>Fight against dirty peasants kidnapping nobles
>Fight against the nobles that get kidnapped
The only person you never actually fight against is...the guy who's manipulating the whole situation to become king and stabs the princess

tl;dr job system FFs good

The Conqueror is meant to keep human use of Remnants in check, and has the full support of the current God-Emperor and the first God-Emperor.

Because governments and religions have killed and oppressed countless innocent people over the course of human history.

What's funny is that for a lot of these teen anime/manga/game stories, they'll have some rarely-heard-of sequel novel where the protagonists are grown up and it turns out everything went to shit.

Throw corporations in that pile. But seems like JRPGs picked up on that too.

>so where is everyone going to get their energy now?
They won't.

Machines and technology is forbidden, then Gaia became Spira.

>as for marcello he literally plotted to overthrow the high priest, he was a piece of shit and a huge letdown of a character, when you meet him in maella abbey he seems troubled and like the sort of guy you won't get along with but by no means does he appear to be villainous, far from it
Marcello never planned to overthrow the high priest. He specifically tells Angelo that he will someday become high priest, but he will wait until the high priest has died.

And remember, it was Leopold (the dog) being controlled by the scepter who killed the High Priest.
>and don't say it was the scepter because is is made clear when you defeat him that rhapthorne hadn't actually managed to take control of him
Yes, the scepter had taken control of him. Initially, he was able to stop the scepter from taking over him by sheer will and stabbing his arm. But it didn't last. By the time your party crashes his anointment party in Neos, he had been fully taken over by the staff. This is why he goes crazy and becomes a boss you needto fight. Because the staff had finally taken him over.
>ANYWAY, I was talking about the feeling I got from the church and the templars in general, it might have only been my impression but imo they game set both up for some development and reveals and then didn't do it, I didn't get a feeling like I was supposed to consider them good guys
The game does make you think the church is evil for about 3/4 the game. With the templars and higher ups all treating you like crap. But the Templars lose their leader, the arch bishop gets thrown into purgatory and Marcello gets beaten half to death. Those are all the "bad" guys in the church. Pretty much every other priest or whatever you meet is a normal nice guy.

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Imagine if they actually took it all the way with Star Wars

>Remove Basch
>Find out late that "Judge Gabranth" is actually Reks, who killed his own king in a moment of chaos/panic, threw away his past life out of shame and regret and lives as a loyal unquestioning judge
>Vaan spends the remainder of the game trying to convince Reks that there's still good in him, and succeeds in the end

This actually makes a lot more sense than Basch's half-written storyline.

Basically there're a million ways to make FFXII's story significantly better and they managed to avoid all of them

>7 = 10

Stop that. I don't care if SE said it was canon. It's fucking stupid and breaks all their own rules

You have it backward. "Word of God" said X is the prequel. Remember that the Ancients were the indigenous people of FFVII.

Humans were probably spacefaring Spiran descendants if we're following this canon. Shin-ra was an NPC prodigy kid in FFX-2 who wanted to rebuild the city that never sleeps. Him or one of his descendants paved the way for Midgar to happen.

As far as for what happens after, user is right. 500 years later, Midgar is an ancient ruin and no one picked up the pieces.