Why did game designers start completely disregarding proper level design?

Skyrim's are better than Oblivion's by virtue of there being actual variation in the aesthetic alone. Going through several Oblivion ruins in a row is a monotonous hell like no other.

based coomer

Source game for these images? They look familiar but damn I just can't...

>And then XII took a step away from that, only for XIII to go all in on literally just a straight line.
what the fuck were they thinking?

Oblivion dungeons look like they were entirely computer generated. Everything looks the same and filled with ramdom enemies that don't make sense. Most Morrowind dungeons don't look like that one either.

bottom is RE2

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I mean on some level they basically were. all the dungeons are layout variations of like 100 possible room sections

The mass market just want a theme park ride: pretty, and on the rails. So devs cater to them when they're making big budget games.

Thanks mate. Haven't played it but the map still looked familiar. Now you say it, it was the font not the map!

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just got done playing it so it was fresh in my mind. That top one is a mystery however.

Either people really weren't accostomed to X's style or it did a good job at fooling them because hardly anyone complains about its linearity.
I really like X's combat, but Spira just feels claustrophobic.

I can't wait until pic related happens.

They literally cancelled the Azure Flute event in the original games because of it so you know it's changing when they do the entirely unnecessary remake.

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these are embarrassingly cherrypicked.
>most of morrowind's dungeons are on-par with skyrim animal caves
>oblivion has the irredeemable ayleid ruins
>skyrim has plenty of examples of tombs with sprawling design, despite there being a large amount of straight lines
fuck off nostalgiafags, TES has always had pretty shitty dungeons

Because Bethesda is lazy as fuck, it's no secret that a lot of the shit in Skyrim is basically a map maker program where you attach rooms together. The only exceptions to this are the major quest dungeons and even then I'd say a good chunk of their rooms are probably also taken from that pile of assets. It honestly wouldn't be that bad if the layouts weren't so fucking boring. You have boring rooms, boring layouts and they're just generally extremely linear, I could probably count on two hands the number of dungeons where doubling back through a room you already visited is done more than once (and no, the secret doors back to the start of the dungeon don't count because they're an admittedly smart way of shortening the trek out of the dungeons.

Also the dungeons are extremely same-y, I get it, there are a lot of Nordic Ruins but you could have some degree of creativity to the ruins and caves and dwemer mines and what not. Have some with overgrown plants especially around Riften and Falkreath where all the Spriggans like to hang out, the ones around Dawnstar could use that surprisingly underutilized ice cave theme same with Winterhold although it'd be cool to get some with a sort of magical ruins aesthetic. Ones around Falkreath could also have a bit of an imperial influence with maybe some ancient Ayleid Ruins.

You could have the different Nordic Ruins of each area embody certain traits of important ancient nordic individuals, maybe have some sort of musical puzzle for Ustengrav given it has the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller in it, same sort of idea for the other ones like the place where the Eye of Magnus is or the Jagged Crown, etc. Basically the absolutely homogeny in the dungeon aesthetics is boring as fuck, I'm not asking for every dungeon to be unique but making it clear that there is that degree of variation in environment and history for these dungeons based on the regions they exist in would go a long way I think.

black reach alone is massive and probably in the top 3 most complex ruins in the series
not counting the first two because lmao

This. People think WOAH I CAN GO LEFT AND IT LOOPS BACK AROUND INTO THE PATH I WAS JUST ON? EPIC! but in reality it's usually just bullshit filler to give it the illusion of depth. should dungeons be one straight hallway? no, but pointless paths that don't lead to shit but 5 gp and a dildo to fuck yourself with doesn't really add anything to my experience. if i could unlock hidden paths by interacting with the environment and then finding secret routes through the dungeon that ended with optional minibosses or secret legendary loot or some shit, that'd be great. otherwise fuck off with your pointless mazes and roundabouts and dungeons that are no different than skyrim when the filler is cut off

REmake 2’s police station had an actual good design
Stop misinforming people
The dumb part of the map in REmake 2 was the swears and lab which was the modern day liner design

Man, I made it through rock tunnel without flash because I didn't know it was a thing, I just listened for the bump noise when you hit a wall. No Pokemon dungeon ever gave me that much trouble again, and very few even came close. Also still peeved that I had to use a game shark or whatever the DS version was to get that fucking flute.

the playtester is obviously a dumbass, but what does that loop add to the game? literally nothing, nothing at all, as evidenced by the praise HL2 gets despite not featuring a pointless loop back to the path you were already on.

What? Black reach is large, but not really complex

*sip*

bethesda dungeons have always been 90% one way streets

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I can't find a map of the full complex, only the center area, but it is pretty complex.

How is that even humanly possible?

No it isn't. It has a few rooms which are all straight lights to the end

do you still doubt the retardedness of your peers?

I simply cannot imagine this near brain-dead moron running in circles for half an hour. How did he even make it out of his house?

they probably got a person who has never touched a video game before to test it

There's a pic like this for Dishonored. Don't remember if it was 1 or 2 but one of them has some mansion level where the player has to go upstairs. Originally the NPCs told the player he wasn't allowed upstairs and retarded playtesters actually stayed downstairs and got stuck for hours. The level was changed to spoon-feed the player and basically force him to go upstairs.

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eh, maybe he was high as shit and never played a video game before

Lmao top is a fucking Doom 2 fan-made wad that was probably made within the last 5 years. Stop misinforming people retard

Ocarina of Time features the exact same "puzzle" with Ruto's letter yet it's one of the highest selling game of all time, what the fuck is wrong with modern playtesters?

It's like that thing that tells you to get out as soon as you go on Yas Forums

>imagine actually getting out

The last one is based. The other two are crinfe

Verticality is a meme

Because the bottom one is more fun than the top 2

FUCK complex dungeons.

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>Verticality is a me-

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I don't think it is due to a desire to lower the difficulty of the game. I think it is a cost/profit decision: designers like bethesda knows how to make a game that will appeal to people through marketing, graphics and name brand alone. At that point spending money on dungeons does not guarantee a profit increase.

Verticality is a meme because you can't explain why it's good and, most of all, necessary. You're just repeating words the youtubers say like a sheep.

So Valve designed the level based on the feedback of a single playtester? Good thing they don't make video games anymore.

Because it adds more complexity to maps you fucking idiot

>same linear shit but this time there's TWO corridors leading to the same room!

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>greg coomer

>So Valve designed the level based on the feedback of a single playtester
Explains why they made an entire game for VR

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You have a point. But there is a fine-line to tread IMO

Because games are essentially themepark rides now.

that's normal. remember oblivion was beta tested by one guy.

I can tell

They started to appeal to average consumer and listen to feedback from casual playtesters who don't really play games (see ). Most of them don't really care about games, they just want instant gratification.

If game designers and developers were to design games without their input their games would likely be more complex like the top-mid part of the image.

Black Reach is very linear.