The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

You don't. You play this to your advantage because nobody is making 3D Zelda-likes.

i definitely prefer it over OoT. i've heard the arguments on dungeon design but i dont really care
the games got soul and shit and a more interesting aesthetic than oot

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Playing Twilight Princess for the first time (Wii), and the first 8 hours bored me to tears. Only continued because I liked Midna, some cool cutscenes, and the art/music. But after getting to the excellent Zora temple, it really picked up. Like, I'm 15 hours in and it is finally an enjoyable game. Still not interested in looking for heartpieces and shit though. The overworld looks nice, but is too big and empty for me to care.
On my way to snowy peaks.

OoT has a tighter story, a non-linear second half, and a slightly higher difficulty. Otherwise TP is pretty much better.

I loved it the first time. It has some of my favorite dungeons. I just can't push myself to play through those early parts again though.

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OoT having a "non-linear" second half is a complete meme. It was not intended and 99% of the players will never experience it. It literally requires going out of your way to the extreme level; nobody completes half a dungeon, gets the key-item, and then leave the dungeon to do something else and return to the first dungeon later

how the fuck do people like you exist in real life unironically?

>a non-linear second half,
A non-linear second half that requires you to do the dungeons in the intended linear order, get the dungeon item, and then just leave and go do something else. That's not remotely non-linear, it's just being pedantic.

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Just don't give a shit. Understanding what works and what doesn't work is better than making arbitrary changes to make your game seem special.
We need the Hollow Knight of Zelda-likes. All the indie Zelda-likes I've seen either suck or change too much. We need an indie game that combines the good qualities of all the 2D Zeldas.
I think a proper 3D Zelda-like would be too much to ask for an indie studio, AA developers have tried but none of them got it quite right.

It's the best 3D Zelda game and only incels disagree.

The biggest meme of the past decade:
Dark Souls

boomers on suicide watch over how visually boring oot is

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honestly dark souls plays nothing like Zelda

We'll never get another Zelda game like Twilight Princess simply because of how much of a reactionary game it is. The entire thing is a really hard reaction to the WTF WHAT IS THIS CELDA BABBY BULLSHIT WHERE'S MY DARK AND MATURE AND REALISTIC SPACEWORLD ZELDA backlash that Windwaker got. So it's as far in the other direction as it can go. It's overtly darker, it's grittier, it has an immediately adult Link, everything is grungy or ornate, it's much, much more like OoT part 2, it's a big laundry list of things that people wanted after they saw WW for the first time. Zelda can't do it again because there hasn't been any radical backlash to any of their art styles since. I'd really love to see another art style like it, cel shaded or not.

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The only real resemblance to Zelda that Dark Souls has is that it's like if you took the core fundamentals of OoT's swordfighting and refined them into something much more in-depth. Movement, progression, world design, and a total lack of puzzles or items of any kind stops it from being anything like an actual Zelda game.

u wot, it's still non-linear even if you don't leave dungeons prematurely.
Saying that it's linear because there's an "intended" order is like calling the original LoZ linear because it labels the dungeons level 1-9. What makes it non-linear is that the player has the option to do things out of order, without having to exploit game-breaking speedrunner-tier glitches. With OoT there's not as much variation as LoZ or LttP but it's certainly more than the absolute linearity of WW/TP/SS.

TP is a rehash of OOT

Because Nintendo realized the backlash was more to cat-eyes Toon Link than the overall aesthetic, people want an older Link.

There's no fucking reason to leave a dungeon you're in the middle of to go start another one unless you want to pat yourself on the back and pretend that you're sequence breaking. You did everything in the order the game wanted you to, you just didn't tick the final progression box. You still entered the dungeons in the order that they wanted you to.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. You didn't even read the first line of my post.

It's not non-linear because no reasonable player would do anything that isn't the intended order. You have to go so far out of the way to escape the intended order it's pretty much a designer oversight.

SS and BOTW seem pretty obviously like they want to go back to WW levels of stylised but acknowledge that adult Link is too popular. SS's characters range from normal humans to borderline Katamari characters and the majority of the enemies are really cartoony.

there's no aspect of OoT that makes it more non-linear than TP except for retarded leaving dungeons early shenanigans

>You didn't even read the first line of my post.
>it's still non-linear even if you don't leave dungeons prematurely.
Yeah because you didn't present a single example of where and why the game is non-linear besides going into and out of dungeons after getting their item. You can do things like go to Zora's Domain and get the iron boots whenever you want, but you can't complete the water temple without the bow from the forest temple. You have a certain amount of flexibility in STARTING areas, but you can't finish them outside of the order that the designers intended you to so there's very little point to even attempting to do it out of the order that is presented to you.

A note on stylization, TP is pretty cartoony too. People complain about how ugly the character models are in TP.
But like, have they never seen people in real life? They're usually ugly. It seems more realistic.

Wolf Link wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

TP is very cartoony but people look at the brown and bloom and go WOW SO REALISTIC. Zelda games have always been pretty big on weird-looking or outright ugly NPCs, it's usually only the core cast who are conventionally attractive. In the case of, say, Zelda and Ilia vs somebody like Ashei, the former are designed by the Oracles guy with his clean art style while the latter is clearly designed by somebody else.

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In fact a lot of the Ordon NPCs are by the Oracles guy, you can see it pretty hard in the kids.

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So Super Metroid is linear, got it.
You are using words incorrectly.

Without leaving dungeons early, the only requirements are that Forest Temple has to be done first, Fire/Water have to be done before Shadow, and Water has to be done before Spirit. Count up the permutations yourself, over the course of the internet people have done that thousands of times. The point is, the number of permutations is higher than 1, as in higher than TP, which was the original comparison. So don't try to play a semantics game of "well that's not linear ENOUGH!" Developer intended is not the same as developer mandated. There's a world of difference between something like Super Metroid and something like Other M, and if you can't see that difference you're simply retarded.

>well that's not linear ENOUGH
not non-linear enough*

Point is, nuance matters, especially in video games. There is a difference between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, just like there's a difference between Super Metroid and Fusion, or Resident Evil 1 and Resident Evil 6.

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There's basically no difference between Ocarina of Time and TP, the dungeon order is basically set on first 3, and then forest fire water shadow spirit. Idk what the fuck permutations your'e talking about because 99% of players are doing it in that order. You have to go EXTREMELY out of the way to deviate from that order.

Sure, by a technicality OoT could be considered slightly more "non-linear" than TP (even though it's super easy to do TP in a completely different order through very easy glitches), but it's so small it shouldn't be used as a point in OoT's favor

The only problem I had when I played it back in the day was figuring out how to get the main staircase spinning and water working on the water temple and then THAT fan room in the sky temple.
I really liked the temple of time gimmick and it makes me sad they never expanded on it other than using the repaired staff to do an specific plot point and advance, after that it's just used for somewhat obscure secrets you just stumble upon.
Oh and the motherfucking spinner is the most fun item you can get out of a dungeon but it's on the same fucking situation as the staff so its a shame.

using your nuance, there's such a vast degree of difference between TRUE non-linearity from the original LoZ and BOTW, and OoT and TP, that it makes sense to just lump OoT/TP/WW together. They're all basically the same in linearity. you can fuck around and do some dungeons out of order in OoT (only if you're playing obtusely for the sake of doing it "out of order", but there are plenty more side-quests in TP that can be done at any point which balances it out)

I loved it

>Is literally objectively better than OoT
if you're into bug hunting, sure

Okami and Beyond Good and Evil both are zelda-likes that are obviously their own thing

>You have to go EXTREMELY out of the way to deviate from that order.
This is false. Even a completely normal player can choose between doing Fire and Water temple order, as well as Spirit and Shadow temple order. No glitches or in-game knowledge necessary.

you literally have to catch 100 bugs in OoT

except now it's turned around. windwaker is remembered fondly and twilight princess is remembered as the boring, ugly mess it always was.

t. pozzed faggot

what

don't you have more bugs to hunt, gayboy

And you have to catch a fuckload of ghosts in TP
At least it got better in the HD version with that one item that tells you if there's poes remaining or not

you have to catch a bunch of (optional) shit in TP but it's the same as in OoT so it's not a valid complaint

You actually don't have to go that far out of the way. All you have to do is tell Navi to fuck off, you don't have to listen to her.

there's a part in the spirit temple where you're basically intended on using the Hover Boots though, it's an oversight you can cheese your way without them

There's a big difference from having to catch 100 bugs to only 60 ghosts, that are also easier to find.
The most important reward from Jiovani are at 20 Poes which is a bottle, while the skulltulas are at 50 for a heart piece.
While sure it's ""easier"" to get 50 because there's more and thus higher chances of finding one, having to 100% it is an absolute insanity.
I almost fully completed Master Quest 3D but all what I have remaining is the gold scale and the damn skulls.

You remember TP as the boring, ugly mess you always thought it was. Truth of the matter is every 3D Zelda after OoT has been critically beloved but fairly divisive on a fan level. Every single one.

are you the original poster. the original post made it seem like catching the golden bugs were annoying in TP, so I made the argument that you have to catch more bugs in OoT. You seem to be saying that OoT is better because the hidden collectables are "harder" to find and also give better rewards.

The art style of Twilight Princess is fantastic. Everyone creamed themselves when the Wii U tech demo came out, and there was mild disappointment when BOTW didn't look like that in its reveal trailer

I'm still pissed about it. TP has my favorite art direction in the series, human character designs notwithstanding.

Not him, but there was nothing rewarding about skulltulas past maybe 30 or 50 if you care about getting all heart pieces. 100 was effectively a massive waste of time, rupees are basically worthless by that point.