Doom Guy's "characterization"

Before he was Doomguy he was known as Coomguy

Doom 64 was made by Midway. Nobody who matters at id gave a fraction of a fuck about the plot. The reason nuDoom's plot is shat on is because they're trying too fucking hard to cash in on le rip and tear meme and it comes across as cringy which okay it's whatever but boy are they fucking trying hard to sell you the plot with multiple cutscenes and a whole bunch of retarded lore and characters nobody gives a fuck about etc. Ultimately the biggest problem is that they're really trying to push this massive lore and making something grand out of it while the original's approach to plot was like "uh dude just write whatever who cares".

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>dude doom story nobody gives shit, le porn quote
t. Carmack
The fact original Doom had a fucking Doom bible with lore and characters written by Hall himself blows your argument out of the water.

Skip the cutscenes then. The Codex is the equivalent of reading the manual, which you probably skipped too so what's the difference?

i don't even understand why people say he's against stories in games. he just says they're not that important. i played tons of doom and never read the book you speak of. i played eternal and didn't read a single codex entry and still liked it. as long as game is fun it's good.

Lore is not equal story, brainlet

are you retarded

not an argument

He thinks that because he was pissing himself in fear of the dark that his character must be as wel.

doom lore exists because "other popular franchises have it"
that's why it is the way it is
pop culture gentrification
the same thing that decides the symbiotes from marvel came from a god pissed off at thor and predators want to rip off a child's spine because he has autism
despite what the director says about disney star wars, the doom "universe" is on pair with those movies

I do skip them. Because they suck. That they're skippable doesn't mean people aren't allowed to have negative opinions of them. Also you couldn't skip cutscenes in Doom16.

If it's just opinion then it doesn't matter?
The story doesn't detract from the game, they didn't waste more time on it than on gameplay and completely different people are working on the story to those that work on the levels/gameplay/enemies/etc so why does it matter?
I also don't see how you can claim that they are trying to push "this massive lore" when you skipped everything, since if you didn't you'd actually see it's not massive at all, but just ties all of the previously established DOOM lore into one universe, making it consistent. Apart from retconning some things which they even make fun of

>If it's just opinion then it doesn't matter?
Are you retarded?
>so why does it matter?
Because it exists, and people are allowed to have an opinion of it.
>I also don't see how you can claim that they are trying to push "this massive lore"
The made all that lore and put it in the game. It clearly worked since I've seen a disturbing amount of people discussing it.
>just ties all of the previously established DOOM lore into one universe
Yeah and that's the saddest part, here we are talking about the Doom universe. Doom, the quintessential "story is an afterthought" videogame, where the player character didn't even have a name, didn't utter a word, didn't have a personality. Even among the FPS of its era Doom was unique in that regard, since Duke and the Build FPS were chock full of one liners and tried to make it look like you were progressing through real locations rather than the abstract maps of Doom. Blood even had cutscenes!

Just because the story isn't important doesn't mean it can't be grandiose. I'd rather have an interesting story instead of a generic one

Holy shit is Doom 64 really this based?
Might have to give it a go.

There's a point where you're just jerking the player off instead of doing cool things. Doom 2016 towed the line but Eternal starts really fucking wanking your dick. A lot of the fan things are cute, but there's too much "THE DOOM SLAYER IS SO BADASS AND POWERFUL AND BELOVED" bullshit.

Yes, that's the literal story of the Lost Episodes.

That's the new scenario added in the port to link it to D44M.

Again, you're turning it into something bigger than it is. It's not massive at all, it's not important, it's not the most intricate story telling there ever was, nor is it extremely original.
It's just there for people that you see discussing it, just for the fun of it, same as people discussing how unfair or fair the marauder is and which mods are OP etc. It's in the game and some like it while some don't care, it doesn't change anything. All of the cutscenes and codexes and whatever just add background, talk about the past, relate everything to the game.
Doomguy is still a silent protagonist, same killing machine as ever, now with him losing everything of himself instead of a goofy mentally deranged face in the middle UNFing away.

>coom eternal

>Ultimately the biggest problem is that they're really trying to push this massive lore and making something grand out of it while the original's approach to plot was like "uh dude just write whatever who cares".
and the problem is... ?

they're not doing a particularly good job of it, and for the record Hugo Martin said their intent was building a Doom universe.

>they're not doing a particularly good job of it
According to you, I guess. Most people seem to enjoy it. Just skip it if you don't like it and it's not an issue.

Now just a god damn minute.

In Doom 1 they cracked into the hell dimension themselves by accident, sure. That's on them. But in 2016, the argent energy they were effectively stealing on Mars would have to be coming from the Maykr soul factory. Hayden actually refers to it in 2016 as 'the well'.
But the well isn't a native aspect of Hell, it's Maykr-built based on the pact the Khan Maykr made with whatever rules in Hell. She made that pact in desperation because Urdak is 'dying', but as far as I can tell it's not because they're a decadent liberal democracy but shit is going south because they've a huge part of their infrastructure management in the Father. The current Khan has also had unchallenged rule because the Father appoints them.
But the Father only went missing because a butthurt Samur apparently fucking stole it when he didn't get elected Khan.

Is he Hillary fucking Clinton? He fucked off to another dimension to hide after they betrayed the Sentinels and made himself corporate-king of the humans by exploiting this EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and objectively evil energy source from another dimension that only he knew about, and even took a poke around Hell himself to see what he could find, eventually digging up his old pal the Slayer.

He may not be the villain of this story, but he is directly responsible for everything bad that's happened in the reboot series.

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>you're not allowed to criticize the plot because it's skippable

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Criticizing is different to saying you don't like the existence of it altogether

criticizing the existence of the plot when it is skippable is a banal waste of everyone's time, yes. when all you're saying is 'it's bad' with no further thought just because you're mad it's there it really amounts to the same thing.

brutal doom was a mistake

so was ur face lmao

just the kind of gotcha a brutal doom-let would think up

>dude don't like x just skip it
>how dare you have an opinion on anything you're not being forced at gunpoint into consuming

doom 64 was supervised by id themselves, retard

because a one-page campy splash screen for the end of the game is much different from taking that seriously and making a whole game story around it.

I should have expected a meme non-response because that's all you had to offer in the first place. fuck off if you don't like it and, and more importantly, post about something else.

The Makyrs were a stupid addition. Their lore sucks, their level sucks, their minions suck and their boss sucks. Add onto that an aesthetic which takes greebling to a new level and the not so subtle "angels are bad too! Religion bad mkay!" And they are the overwhelmingly worst party of an otherwise great game.
Doom 2016 lore was much better and they should have expanded on that style of story telling, in which Doom guy is a random interloper in a plot that has nothing to do with him. Instead Doom guy himself becomes the centre of the universe. It's less impressive when the guy doing the killing is confirmed as having superpowers that make him the strongest being in the universe and a literal figure of worship as well as being connected to every major lore event that has ever happened and literally destined to win at everything forever. I liked it when he was a marine having a bad day, when you could just have easily been one of the marine corpses lying around.

imagine being upset that they went from 'dude just write whatever' to actually giving a shit enough to write something with a bit of depth to it.

not for doom it isn't you fucking idiot

the Makyrs really don't add anything at all to the story and their level was hands down the worst

>Doom Guy
More like Big Guy.

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I liked the khan maykr fight it was harder but more interesting than icon of sin 'shoot the pieces off lol' and I like their lore too
> in which Doom guy is a random interloper in a plot that has nothing to do with him
that's pretty much the case still if not even more so, he was an army grunt who distinguished himself and thus became an unwitting pawn of a jealous maykr who was mad he got passed over for promotion. the ARC dicksucking was definitely over the top for me but thankfully they kept the human worship to audio logs for the most part and the factions he actually interacts with treat him like an asshole.

For Doom

>in which Doom guy is a random interloper in a plot that has nothing to do with him
...That's exactly what's going on in Doom Eternal.

You retards are aware the R in "R-rated" stands for Restricted right?

This is not a characterization of the Doom Guy. This is 8 lines of text written in 15 seconds by a programmer that no one takes seriously and has no importance within the context of the game.

It's the literal definition of characterization. Doomguy makes decisions based on, you guessed it, his character and acts upon them.

>religion bad
>doomguy is being called a god
hmm

It's fine if you have an opinion, just stop pretending like it's not dumb

He's connected with every single bad guy, good guy and neutral party in the game and he is literally destined to stop the end boss using a weapon made specifically for him while everyone in the game is scrambling to protect themselves specifically from him before he even arrives and the good guys are all literally waiting for him to show up. They should have just called the game "Doomguy and Friends"

>He's connected with every single bad guy, good guy and neutral party in the game
The Deags recruited him, but he was lost to Hell for an indeterminate amount of time. They had already begun their invasion of Hell when Doomguy shows up and interlopes. They don't invade Earth because of Doomguy. They invade Earth and Doomguy stops in.
>good guy
Well he saved Vega.
>neutral party
Hayden took up arms for the humans of Earth and lost his fight by the time you get to him. Lots of shit happened off-screen, and I think that's your primary concern.

I think people were complaining about characterization in how it's presented. The defining introduction of the first game, and every major storybeat thereafter, explicitly presented Doomguy as someone who absolutely did not give a shit about the dumb plotline that the game was trying to give you. He ignores Hayden at every opportunity outside of moments where he is literally, physically incapable of ignoring him and he destroys all demon technology as a matter of course. He is here to kill demons.

One of the first scenes in Doom Eternal is when you're getting that Celestial Compass thing, and Doomguy kneels to this ghost king who is spouting off nonsense. What? I get that he's a Sentinel or whatever, but instead of kneeling to this guy, just have him fiddle with the Compass to unlock it and leave while the guy is talking. Why does Doomguy stop to listen to Khan Maykr's stupid monologue when she hacks his ship? Why does he stop to listen whenever the Hell Priests are talking to him?

The plot of the game is stupid, both on a literal and meta level. The Argent, Demons, and Maykr, and Sentinels? All of it is completely moronic and a total waste of time. It's beat for beat, done-before sci-fi that may have actually been produced by a script-writing bot. The first game had a great take on this kind of plot: Demons have invaded, there are some reasons, and if you want to dig you can find out more, but they don't matter -- go kill demons. Doom Eternal has this wierd fixation on characters that don't matter spouting off painfully generic lines that also don't matter, and instead of playing with the idea of a plot that's purely an accessory, Doom Eternal for some reason expects you to either take is seriously or Hold R to Skip, both of which are stupid options. Instead of being an extremely generic gameplay-focused shooter with an accessory plot, Doomguy could have actively ignored the "plot" of the game.

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everything happening was going to happen anyway, Hayden is more central to the plot than the doomguy, who was literally just a lucky find from hell both for the sentinels in the backstory of eternal and for hayden as the setup for 2016.

Fantastic summation. That opening bit where he's walking around the two priests as they cower was really weird.

I think that one's possibly excusable in that he could just be looking for a way to kill them. I think it would have been better if he had waved his arm through them or something and walked away, but I think the more inexcusable ones are when he just literally stands around doing nothing while some wierdo blogs at him.

It's jut like the original game's then, aping 80's action movies with it's over the top everything.

>leave while the guy is talking.
doesn't he do exactly that? maybe it was a difference scene, but there's definitely a point where he just walks out on a dude mid-monologue

Off-topic, i'm playing doom eternal on xbox and i'm costantly dying on the second level on nightmare difficulty, i have already finished the game on hurt me plenty pretty easily, am i a fag or is really that hard on console?

>Why does Doomguy stop to listen to Khan Maykr's stupid monologue when she hacks his ship? Why does he stop to listen whenever the Hell Priests are talking to him?
every one of these instances was a hologram so it's not like he could do anything about it, except the first encounter with the priests where he just walks around them yeah, that was weird. but they also aren't demons, they were sentinel aristocracy and the last time he'd seen them was when they sent him through a portal to fight hell.

Because Eternal is like if someone made a game out of Chuck Norris memes. Its cringe.

That should have been every scene, IMO. It shows that they knew, vaguely, how to treat the plot but just didn't follow through for some bizarre reason.

Yeah, and the Doom 2016 did it right by being over the top and also making fun of the by-the-numbers plotline that everyone playing understands is pointless.

>why does Doomguy [not ignore thing]
Because he literally cannot in Eternal. In 2016 he only had people talking in his ear saying 'don't do X' but they couldn't stop him. In Eternal's situations, the context is very different. For the king guy, he shows respect before the king says some dumb shit which pisses Doomguy off. For the Khan Makyr with the ship, he immediately went to restore power with the Crucible after killing the demons the spawned in. With the Hell Priests, he didn't have have that Sentinel Token thing that allows him to kill the Priests. If you recall, the very first Priests says that his "soul is guarded," and then Doomguy brandishes that token, causing the Priest to shit himself before being killed. Those token things were hidden with the Doom Hunter and Gladiator respectively for the other two Priests.

I have something to add, but someone refresh my memory: Did we know Doomslayer was a knight dude in D2016? As in confirmed?

Oh is that what that was? Intradesting.

Have you played Eternal? It explains that Doomguy was recruited to the Night Sentinels after kicking tons of ass. Doomguy only stayed with them because they were making constant raids into Hell so it was furthering his own goal.

I forgot about that, I just didn't get the significance of the tokens lol

Right but was that confirmed in 2016? I remember really liking the notion that the knights in Doom 2016 saluted you and aided you in spirit because they knew Doomslayer was going to finish what they started. I just don't like the idea that Eternal retroactively changes that to them aiding a former comrade. It's not detrimental, but it's less interesting to me that way.
>Fuck me, this guy is really doing it.
vs
>It's him, it's him!

It's implied in 2016 and confirmed in Eternal.

2016 never made clear what the connection to the night sentinels was, who the fuck they were or anything. it was a really strange outlier that makes me think most of eternal's lore was already written by that point.
it's basically both of those,
>oh shit, the madlad we found in a ditch is gonna git er done

Thoughts on Eternal's arsenal?

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