J.C! The net's going.. the net's going black! J.C! No more infolinks...

You can be smart but not wise.
You can have several PHDs in technological fields but that doesnt mean you know political theory or philosophy

Unfortunately yes

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we're 100% black

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No... Not yet...

Based and Pol Pot-pilled

FUCK OFF COOFER

>global surveillance is okay as long as i'm in charge/it's for a 'benevolent' purpose
FREEDOM
SAY IT WITH ME
F R E E D O M AT ANY COST

Tong was right: the entire global system was totally compromised by the illuminati and MJ-12 and only a hard reset could remove their hands from the levers of power.
Even then apparently a hard reset didn't last long according to Invisible War, but that was because IW wasn't really deus ex. Two frenchies in a crypt beneath Paris wouldn't have been able to reestablish global regime in a handful of years; the rioting would've been uncontainable, new legions and warlords would've risen up as the new powers while the old were swept away by the habbening.
i mean unless JC was willing to make a gamble against the devil and become the AI God of the world rather than be consumed by Helios and potentially Borg the planet.

>he didnt fuse with the AI for UNLIMITED POWER

The Internet is truly a evil thing tho. Hes not wrong

was tong a minimalist or an anarchist?

Except the decisions will be made by an entity without worldy desires that operates solely on logical thinking with societal wellbeing as it's main goal.

I doubt taking tech from the people wouldn't have caused mass riots and a fuckton of political issues. Yeah, the system needed change but it had to be gradual, not go full traditionalist.

>It's so strange how Tong is simultaneously one of the most intelligent people in the DX universe and a reactionary asshat that thinks the solution to globalist/ plutocratic authoritarianism is pretending technology never happened.

Even when I was 14 years old and playing this game for the first time I thought this made no sense.

In retrospect I wonder if this ending was intended to be advocated by a different, ultimately cut character. It just seems so out of place with Tong.

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based anarcho primitivist tong

>an entity without worldy desires that operates solely on logical thinking with societal wellbeing as it's main goal
We don't know that for sure user. It's all up in the air about how the AI will behave once it's given control. Personally, I'm not willing to take that chance.

I think I read somewhere that the endings were rushed and there was some cut content. Maybe there would have been some more character progression for Tong.

Minimalism is an abstract art form. Anarchism is a political policy

i guess primitivist would be a better word than minimalist

Based and Vargpilled.

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You know in your heart he was right,

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He was half-assing the innawoods angle

He had a hard life

He had a lot of mail to send out

Is a fan of uncle ted?

Tong shits on the illuminati and sounds like a libertarian-nationalist the entire game. Of course that's his angle.

whatever uncle ted believed in

based and tedpilled

I'm not crazy about any of the endings, but Helios seems to be the most thematically conistent, the one with the most build up, and the one that has the best shot. But even I'm not crazy about it. People who write AI and software would recoil at the thought of an AI running everything. Just on bug and it could cost lives or delays or cause a recession.

Remember, Helios doesn't just advise humanity, it aims to replace all national governments. It started up in Hong Kong and from the few days it was up and running things seem to be going smoothly. But could an AI really run every single government in the world? I don't think Helios would be up to the task. You'd probably need a thousand Helios AI, one for every nation. And what if they started fighting?

Freedom to do what? To be ruled over, and to rule over others? You don't think that disconnected peoples would just self-isolate and form self-sufficient, democratic towns and cities, do you?
Humans have to stay together by nature, and we've long passed the point where any regression is permanent without also killing humanity. All you're doing is replacing a life you could live with some form of comfort, health, and happiness, for a shorter, crueller one where perhaps the only mercy is knowing the face of your real master.

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Tong and Ted, not even joking, are in the same political camp. They're both kind of right libertarian anti-modernist anti-globalist types.

>gardener is black
>uses a rake
what century is this pic from?

you're saying that like that's a bad thing

>Just on bug and it could cost lives or delays or cause a recession.

Good thing that human governments never have this problem.

based

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what site were you form originally?

Imagine dedicating your life to the knowledge of computers then going full Luddite and wanting to throw it all away. What an idiot.

But it has JC's human compassion and personality to balance things out

You can uphold these values and learn to apply them more carefully. Instead Tong is like "lmao just destroy the basis on which current society is built upon".

black people and rakes still exist dummy

Deus Ex presents a pretty bleak picture of human society at the macro level. It's implies that at the very top, the very very top, you just get jerks like the Illuminati who run the world from the shadows for their own ends. That's why 2 of the 3 endings are bring everything down.

it's probably because he realized they were worse for humanity

Later than the Neolithic and before the Neo-Neolithic

>at the very top, the very very top, you just get jerks like the Illuminati who run the world from the shadows for their own ends
That's hardly a departure from the norm in fiction, or indeed irl. The point I'm trying to make is that in any circumstance where everything gets reset, the only substantial change will be who the master is - it's why helios is the best ending, and a complete cop-out since lmao incorruptible AI + literally jesus. The Illuminati ending is only second best because you KNOW who's going to be ruling, and it's you and some people JC can control - Tong's ending is just a gamble, one that heavily favours the ruthless and cruel in the struggle for power that would follow such a technological collapse.

>That's hardly a departure from the norm in fiction, or indeed irl.

It's all a matter of degree and relative amount of hope. A lot of stories imply that yes, there's jerks and selfish people and this or that, but some good can come out of it in the end. Deus Ex really gives you a bleaker look than normal. Look at the Illuminati, nominally they're your allies because you're both fighting MJ12. But then you can find out about Evertt's buddy he's keeping on ice, and he tells you some of the backstory of the group, and they hardly seem interested in the problems of the common man. These are the people who ran the world and whom you are fighting to restore to power?

Not him
But at least JC knows who he is in power and may be able to keep them in check, if he has the fortitude to remain incorruptible. I still think the Helios ending is the one that makes the most sense though.

>The Illuminati ending is only second best because you KNOW who's going to be ruling, and it's you and some people JC can control

JC would be a junior member of the Illuminati, likely just a top notch henchman really. Everett would be the one in real power, and JC just knocked off all his competition within the organization. And who's to say that Everett wasn't going to do the same thing to JC he did to his old mentor?

The only good thing they got going for them is that they do have some interest in furthering humanity overall, and are less heavy handed in their methods. MJ12 was really just Bob Page's Goon Squad with the goal of putting himself as dictator of the world with his henchman as President of the USA.

btw Guesss who gave Bob Page all that power to begin with? Yeah it was Morgan everett! Bob Page was set up to be his successor that he mentored. Way to fucking pick them Morgan. Literally the entire plot of DE could be traced back to this bad decision by him.

>or indeed irl

real life isn't actually controlled by a handful of people at the top. the truth is that nobody is actually in control of anything and that's why life is so fucking awful, not because there is a plan to specifically engineer it that way for the benefit of some shadowy cabal of elites.

Deus Ex thread:
>500 posts 250 images
>deep discussion of characters and settings and gameplay

Deus Ex sequels threads:
>20 posts
>is this game any good?

what happened?

>what happened?
The sequels were bluepilled. They softball all the real issues.

There's shadowy cabals of elites, but the scary part is that none of them are in control of everything, and it's really just endless factions fighting for control. Some factions and elites have more power than others. And ther'es no "plan", there's little thinking past the next quarter. The focus of the elites is to make money and make it now and to hell with what happens 20 years from now.

>what happened?

deus ex 1 had interesting writing

the others did not

>they hardly seem interested in the problems of the common man. These are the people who ran the world and whom you are fighting to restore to power?
Yes! Even this Illuminati, especially this one, terrified by the sudden betrayal of MJ12, is better than the chaos of a world designed to only function when directed losing its overlords. This Illuminati, one who you know enough to ruin even without just killing them with your bullshit augs, are pliable and desperate enough that JC can mould them into something that, while it'll never be for the good of everyone, can at least work for more than the 0.01%. As in our world, automation, surveillance, and the impoverished are hard unchangeable constants in Deus Ex. Unless we delve into actual deus ex machina like post scarcity, the world has to accept, even if not consciously or willingly, that you can't fix everything for everyone.
I'd never say the Illuminati are anything close to the good guys, but the realpolitik is that JC can't fix the world himself. I would say he's not quite stupid enough to let Everett have power over him, but that's clearly very debatable.
Not to the extent of Deus Ex, certainly, not yet. There is undeniably cabals of ultra-powerful persons conspiring together to defeat any regulation or law that gets in the way of their margins, and no-one would be stupid enough to think that politicians are in control of countries.

Anyway, it's like Voltaire said, the world needs to be guided not to completely shit itself and since Helios is a deus ex machina, we're left with effective anarchy or the chance, the hope that JC can change the head of power from within.

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I like HR and MD but they just don't live up to the originals. the level design, the characters, the story, those horrible boss fights (and no, the directors cut didn't "fix" them, it was only a band-aid to the problem), they just aren't as good as the first game.

This, and none of the games really have gameplay deep enough to have threads just talking about the gameplay.

The games that followed are nothing at all like the original. Why the fuck would HR, which is a prequel, have a much more technologically advanced world and society than the og DX? Also the characters are ass.

that's pretty much what I was aiming at. well said.

I think people get confused when they notice that some people are in fact at the top (which of course they would be, SOMEBODY has to be at the top, that's just how nature works), and assume that because they're the most comfortable and receive the most benefits, that somehow they planned it that way. in reality they stumbled into it much the same way that the rest of us have stumbled into our lives. some of them fall out of their position through stupidity and others move in through cleverness. same as it ever was. same as it ever was...

Tong is one of the only viable solutions.

>Here's the massive problem of there not being anywhere near enough jobs to keep people in the first world in the kind of lifestyle they're accustomed to, and also people willing to work for cheaper/able to worker better via augs that further close those slim margins for "normal" people
>I know, lets make it about race instead even when we say it's about jobs because hehehehehe back of the bus different train for blacks and whites im so good at metaphors
>what do you mean augmented people literally all went insane and killed people, giving an actually justified reason for mistrust? no that doesnt work we need augs to be absolute victims even though only jensen and a few others know it was an intentional attack and not some random bug that could happen again at any time, so even the augmented might be able to grudgingly admit that they have an actual reason to be feared hurr durr god i love semen

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>>what do you mean augmented people literally all went insane and killed people, giving an actually justified reason for mistrust?

It's a similar problem with x-Men. Like the stories set this up as a parallel to racial mistrust. Uh, racial minorities can't shoot lasers from their eyes or fly. They're super-humans who could level city blocks. Mech Augs aren't as powerful as that but they can be pretty scary.

It would also have made more sense if people were afraid of robots taking over their jobs instead of augs. In DX1 only a very small amount of people have augmentations and most of them hold top positions in multinational corporations. It would also be more grounded in reality which is what DX is all about.