Interesting comments from someone in the Dev industry in comments section in the latest TheVerge article on PS5 v Xbox XS
He says Xbox XSX is more powerful and easier to develop for, and Microsoft caught Sony off guard with their initial announcement and they have been scrambling ever since.
Comment 1:
>"Should also be noted that 10GB of XSX’s RAM is 112GB/s faster than any of the PS5’s RAM. That is where most all of the visuals will be.
>The SSD bandwidth is nice, but will not be all that noticeable to most people. Think of a loading screen. 10GB of data going into the system memory on that loading screen would take would take about 1.25 seconds on the PS5 to load with compression techniques and 2.08 seconds on the Xbox.
>Once you get over 2GB/s the load speeds to fill RAM are negligible for most people.
>So to load all approx 13GB of available memory (considering system overhead) it would take the Xbox 5.4 seconds if able to load at minimum bandwidth. The PS5 would do 13GB in 2.36 seconds. Less than half the time, but we’re talking seconds. Once you get to PCIe 3.0 speeds, it really is such a small difference.
>If we were talking 100MB/s versus 230MB/s (the equivalent of the difference between the two) then it WOULD matter because 10GB on the Xbox would take 100 seconds versus 44 seconds for the PS. But once you get to 2 GB/s or so, the speeds really become less and less material and the I/O speed less important.
>The big thing is the much faster 10GB of memory on the Xbox for you visuals. That means more data bandwidth to the CPU/GPU and less missed cycles because of it.
>My guess is the Xbox will be easier to optimize for from what has been released and will present better frame rates and graphical fidelity overall. Will be very interested to see the comparative ray tracing performance and the ability to add HDRenhancement to old titles through some AI enhancement."
>"10GB of RAM on the Xbox is 112 GB/s faster than the PS5. This is where the high fidelity textures, models, etc would all be loaded. These have much faster throughput through the APU unit because of this, leading to fewer missed cycles and more efficient processing. It is likely that the graphical differences will be greater than what the 18% difference in raw power tells us.
>The improved I/O really only relates to loading into memory, but beyond 2GB/s the differences become fairly negligible. With their compression setup, it is likely the Xbox can fill all available RAM in a theoretical 2.7 seconds versus 1.6 seconds for the PS5. Most people will not care about an extra second.
>There is also an APU advantage in that the compute cores and the CPU cores all operate at set frequencies in the Xbox whereas the PS5 is variable. There will be much more optimization needed on the PS5, especially accounting for thermal loads. Microsoft designed the power to be predictable. It is possible the PS5 could deliver more power in short bursts, but cannot sustain that power.
>I would guess when the first titles for both are tested that we will see the Xbox having better visuals and framerates with the PS5 loading it in a couple seconds faster. The PS5 is also more likely to have heat and fan noise issues because of its design, though their cooling stack could tell us more.
>What’s interesting is Sony was pretty light on specifics and did not reveal the look. I’d guess Microsoft is way ahead on engineering and is likely already building spec and prototype out on the upgrade that will come in 2-3 years after release while Sony may only be doing light concepts because it seems they are still trying to completely lock down their next gen console.
>I would not be surprised to see Sony delay the console longer than manufacturing needs and Microsoft to find a way to launch it near on time. It appears MS has a fairly simple manufacturing process and designed for that."
Alexander Scott
Comment 3 :
>"Work in the business. They already are. Optimizing for PS5 is much tougher. From what I have heard it sounds like most multi-platform games may start on the XSX and get ported. The DevKit for the Xbox is supposed to be much better to work and test from.
>I also heard before this Coronavirus stuff that PS5 was behind and might need to delay until summer 2021 while the Xbox hardware was ready. Sony still is not quite completely done with final spec for developers, so there’s some limbo.
>They were not ready to reveal anything this early. Microsoft made them force their hand because they are ahead on the engineering and software side."
Gabriel Ward
Comment 4:
>"Also should be noted that the average speed is meaningless. I work with devs and manage them. Optimizing is simple because you just code to ensure the visual data is delivered to certain memory addresses that map to the higher speed memory and things that never need as much map to the lower bandwidth ones. Audio doesn’t need high speed. This is actually a brilliant engineering bit by Microsoft that will be easy to code for by just how memory is addressed. It’s basically a few lines of code. The stable speeds also make optimization easy because the software does not need to request the system ramp up clocks on the CPU versus GPU, etc. The Sony does and it takes more time to optimize and test to get the right balance. They will get there and find easier methods, but I have heard the Xbox is easier to optimize and code out of the box. This likely means the first slew of titles that are multi-platform may look and play significantly better on it in some ways. I’ve been told it’s basically the difference between the X1X and the PS4 Pro right now based on the dev kits and what was known about specs (I was never told the specs outright, but have been told the Xbox was the more powerful and overall impressive of the two). Also expect that the Xbox will be able to do more under the surface than the Sony, like the AI HDR enhancement of past titles and, possibly, the ability to add HDR to streaming video that doesn’t have it (hinted at from what I’ve heard, not confirmed). Not sure if the PS5 has the memory caching ability of the XSX either, but time will tell. It may not have the same kind of resume function because that requires some special work in the OS and with the storage for it to work right from what I’ve heard.
Caleb Turner
>Microsoft caught Sony off guard with their initial announcement and they have been scrambling ever since
This is obvious to everyone, they haven't even shown the damn unit yet, probably because they are still prototyping to maximise clocks.
Benjamin Perry
Comment 4 Part 2:
>Right now it looks like the only definite thing the PS5 has over the XSX is that it can load a part of a game in 1-3 seconds faster than the XSX. There are some game devs at big studios that have told me for a few months that many think Sony screwed up the architecture and has been trying to fix it, especially once all the leaks came out from Microsoft. I have a feeling that the Xbox launch will be very smooth this time and the Sony one may be rough with a lot of problems. Their internal testing apparently is having some heating issues, so there is concern about Sony’s own version of the red circle of death. That’s one reason why the hardware may not have been show – they don’t have the cooling figured out and they may need to throttle below their reported power to prevent the machine from overheating and shutting down. Microsoft showed its confidence. They brought in outsiders to look at it and use it. Sony has not and had to cobble together a tech presentation after the DF videos dropped. Don’t be surprised if the PS5 comes out after the XSX, even accounting for current likely delays."
>"We also don’t know how well cooled the SSDis on the PS5. MS explained their cooling and how their SSD solution can basically run a constant storage bandwidth. The key on the XSX is that MS touts the numbers, from storage to teraflops to memory bandwidth to clocks, are all constant and predictable. There is no overlock or underlock. You know what speed your storage will go at, what speed your CPUand CPU cores will go out, how fast your memory will be, etc. This makes optimizing much easier because they have made performance sustained and predictable. So we are basically getting a PCIe 4.0 SSDon the PS5. With that comes more heat – that is the cost of the speed. Is there a heat sync? Does it latch into the cooling system overall? Do your add on SSDs need a heat sync or performance will suffer?
Adrian Hall
The only thing Snoy have left is exclusives, and to be honest I can't think of any:
>Do they need a specific heat sink? It seems that Microsoft engineering came to the conclusion that a PC m.2 drive may not be optimal for predictable sustained performance. They also may have concluded the PCIe 4.0 will run too hot. m.2 SSDs in high performance laptops and desktops cannot sustain transfer due to heat without some massive mod. If MS has figured out how to deliver a high speed storage system with excellent heat transfer, we may find in real life that the PS5 speed is not impressive. It’s quite possible that without the proper cooling, the PS5 system may have to throttle down to slower speeds to keep cooler in regards to SSD. The question that needs to be answered is did Sony do this to get super high speed storage that is way ahead – or did they do it so they could just get storage to match what the we will see in the XSX because they did not or could not engineer a solution for cooling? The RAM that matters in the Xbox is far superior and will allow for faster throughput and less wasted cycles. It will be easy to allocate to specific memory addresses associated with the higher speed memory. The PS5 I/O advantage may not be much if the cooling is not adequate and MS is correct and they have adequately cooled it so the I/O can be sustained and not diminish. Sony is not that great at cooling. I’ve heard from devs that Sony is not showing off the PS5 because it has thermal problems. Microsoft has no problem letting DF do a vid and showing them around while Sony has to rush a presentation to counter. I know from devs that have the kits that they feel the Xbox is easier to optimize and they feel games will look and feel much better on the Xbox upon release because it will take time to optimize for PS5 and figure it out. I’ve been told it is not as bad as what happened with the PS3, but somewhat similar.
William Murphy
"Easier to develop for" is an incredibly flexible and subjective statement that encompasses middleware and platform holder bureaucracy to possibly even a higher degree than the hardware itself.
But there's no denying that a memory bus at double the speed is a significant upperhand.
Zachary Watson
Comment 5 Part 3
The Xbox 360 was much more straightforward while the architecture for the PS3 was not. This is not the Cell, but it will require a lot of work in regards to clocks, etc to figure out how to optimize. They will eventually, but the first year may have some rougher titles that look noticeably worse than the XSX. The one advantage the PS5 has, the I/O, may not be one if they can’t cool the drive. And the question of expansion is a real one. Do you need a heat sink on your approved SSD? The Xbox solution may be more expensive, but it also may be more consistent and easier to deal with since you don’t have to crack open the case. MS could also bulk order them up front to reduce initial cost. I will say, MS’ way is pretty cool and reminiscent of bringing a Switch card or an old Gamecube save card and plugging it into a friend’s system. Microsoft’s setup let’s you easily bring your digital game with you, pre-downloaded, to play on other people’s XSXconsoles once you login to your account. PS5 can’t do that – not with the newest games. Their external storage is not fast enough while Xbox’s is."
It’s all about third party shit now. Nintendo’s exclusives are idiotic kiddy shit, Sony’s are cinematic moviegame game garbage and Xbox just gave up and exists on the generosity of third parties. So take your pick, xbone, pc, PlayStation; they’re all perfectly competent kideo game boxes to play multiplatform games on.
Kevin Richardson
based
Isaiah Turner
What is this meme, both the Xbox sex and ps5 use gddr6
Ayden Reyes
This guy isn't a dev and everything he said was conjecture. He literally has not developed for either the Xbox or PS5
> I work with devs and manage them
Cooper Cruz
Come on, Odyssey and BOTW were kino, and Bloodborne was the reason I bought a PS4.
But I'm not buying a PS5 if the hardware sucks and it has less games than PS3.
The only thing I'm wondering is who in Microsoft thought it was a good idea to make it a fucking tower.
Jordan Thomas
More efficient cooling, inspired by the Mac Pro trashcan.
Sebastian Hall
>Interesting comments from someone in the Dev industry The jew from kotaku said he got this info from other devs >This is going to lead to weeks and weeks of talk about how Xbox is the most powerful console, and so on. Meanwhile I'm getting texts even today from developers being like this is such a shame -- the PS5 is superior in all these other ways that they're not able to message right now or can't talk about right now. I heard from at least three different people in the past couple of hours since the Cerny thing being like, wow, the PS5 is actually the more superior piece of hardware in a lot of different ways, despite what we were seeing in these spec sheets. Almost as if these devs are shilling for their own companies
Evan Lee
Remember when devs "supposedly" said the PS3 cell was hard to develop for? Sony won, Sony ALWAYS wins.
Jaxon Gonzalez
It's all about the games. Playstation always had better games and I expect it to be no different this time.
Hunter Long
>The only thing Snoy have left is exclusives, and to be honest I can't think of any weeb shit
Cameron Jackson
Do you not remember how shit launch PS3 games were?
>Xbox cucks jerking off over some random shitposter with no credentials
Try harder, lads.
Nicholas Long
All Im getting from this is regardless who has more terafloppies or custom SSDGBT+ drives; they'll both be more or less the same. So in that case it will ultimately come down to the games and base price.
I don't care anymore. I won't buy a PS5 without full BC, I won't buy an Xbox without exclusives, and I won't by a Nintendo until it has up-to-date graphics. They've all gotten lazy as fuck, so I'm going to pc.
Carter Scott
games will undoubtedly run better on series x
Isaac Harris
They’ve all got like one decent exclusive. PS has BB, Nintendo has BotW and Xbox has (imo) Forza Horizon. It’s just not that exciting anymore.
Carter Foster
>Rogue Squadron devs died for this shitheap It still hurts.
Dominic Cook
Yeah I agree Forza looks good it's the one game that tempts me to buy an Xbox.
Tyler Perry
that 13% improvement will mean jackshit if the PS5 is cheaper than the series x though the average consumer wont give a shit if the game dips 5fps occasionally on a PS5 if they got it cheaper than a series x
Nolan Kelly
No one gives a shit, nor has it ever been a deciding factor in console warz.
Gavin Adams
XSX is looking really good so far, but can they get Japanese devs to develop good games for it?
Daniel Nelson
Now if only series x had games
Elijah Ward
Sony really fucking dropped the ball with BC, why would I bother getting a PS5 if none of my PS4 games will be compatible?
Cooper Murphy
I got a bone just for Horizon and it’s my weekend ritual. The new one is kinda weak but there’s so much content I’m still playing 2 and 3 regularly.
Lincoln Foster
With all the studios Microsoft bought they’re going to pump out 3-4 exclusives a year in rotation.
Jack Morgan
Playstation bros got too cocky. T. Ps4 chad.
If I get a next gen console i'm leaning towards Xbox this time.
Don't really care that much about my Playstation account age, friends list, games, etc.
Series X is the chad console, it's not even close.
Cameron Rodriguez
I doubt there'll be a major pricing difference unless Sony plans to sell at a loss again.
William Garcia
As much as I’d love to see someone pick up the mantle now that Sony insists on making only moviegames I don’t trust Microsoft not to do any more than make 6/10 games to fill out gamepass with.
Lucas Parker
This was meant to be in reply to this
Charles Clark
You said this with the Xbonex as well. So much for those "demonstrable differences.:
Jeremiah Peterson
Can you tell anything to prove it refute what he said?
Bentley Diaz
It was, almost every multiplat run noticeably worse.
Oliver Stewart
not sure what point you're trying to make here? games do run better on xbonex
Zachary Bell
>I would not be surprised to see Sony delay the console longer than manufacturing needs Rip Sony
Charles Mitchell
you know the ps5 actually looks like that and that's why they haven't shown it because they're scrambling to redesign it at the last second so they don't get laughed out of the industry. it's going to be a disaster.
Lucas Bailey
only EA managed to produce great results. Some game like alice madness returns even looked better on ps3 (but had worse framrate)
Zachary Roberts
And more of from software's garbage.
A delayed console which is also weaker would be a hilarious spectacle.
Aiden Morales
A refined version of the devkit would have soul, unlike that awful minifridge and its proprietary memory cards.
Jack Foster
Eh the only modern From games that are only available to Sonybros are Demon's Souls and Bloodborne, 4 others are multiplat.
Brayden Evans
Reports are that the PS5 will give developers more of the system memory than the Xbox Series X as Sony has reduced the OS footprint substantially due to the OS being able to be reside in virtual memory on the SSD.
Leo Flores
Sony's pissed off a lot of developers of weeb shit, and it's easier than ever for the same devs to release on PC.
Cooper Thomas
Which reports?
Samuel Campbell
>push the card meme when they said externals hard drives can still be used
Leo Jackson
Reports had the PS5 at 13 teraflops and full backwards compatibility with all previous consoles
Joshua Young
damn this post really triggered the sony fans
Lincoln Hall
Not NVMe drives.
Xavier Martin
The PS5 has something as retarded as variable clock rate. The 10.2 TF performance is highly theoretical. It can't maintain both CPU and GPU at those clock rates but will have to downclock one for the other.
The absurd GPU overclocking will also put huge demands on cooling so expect another PS4 Pro jet engine taking off.
Variable clock rate is also to blame for poor PS4 BC as PS4 games are intended for a fixed clock speed.
The SSD has impressive r/w speeds but the RAM is slower on a smaller bus. And total SSD storage is 200gb less than SeX.
If you think by now that Sony wasn't overclocking their 9.2TF to inch closer to MS, you're delusional. GitHub leak was real. 9.2TF was the initial goal but later last-minute overclocking was made to inch closer to a much stronger SeX. It is an afterthought and it shows. This is also why they can't show us the PS5 box yet. They're still trying to find optimal cooling for it which impacts console size.
