Or good combat systems? Seriously. I don't get it. I DON'T GET IT. Western devs have had more influence on the game industry for far longer than Japan, yet they act like they're making first year school projects while games like Dark Souls are masterclass and have half the budget. The problem with American devs and bosses came to a head with the Mass Effect franchise. "Why do you always need a boss???"... because it's the ultimate test of the games mechanics? Jesus christ, western devs.
Just played and beat Dark Souls for my first time. The exploration, bosses and weapon based combat all add up to something brilliant. Even despite how terrible Lost Izalith was, it didn't kill my enthusiasm for the game. Three out of the four of the final areas are at least still good, and even at its lowest moment, it was still worth playing more than any western game I've played as of late.
So to figure this out, I've included the four horsemen of the western dev apocalypse. The four games that are a reflection of modern western design as a whole. My post about them coming up
>Arkham Asylum and Arkham City The series so toxic for the industry I had to include it twice. I don't feel like Batman, despite claims as such, and it's bad enough you don't have real bosses, but instead you get gimmicky shit like the Poison Ivy fight or an entirely scripted sequence like Killer Croc, both of which were in Arkham Asylum, and as the series went along, this never improved. What's worse about the Arkham games is their influence. Arkham Asylum was popular, but Arkham City was a megahit. I couldn't even look at western made games for a couple years because they'd all be inevitably an Arkham clone.
>NuGod of War Back in the day, we used to raise our noses up at God of War 1 and 2 on the PS2. "Ho ho, square square! What simple games not as good as our precious Devil May Cries!" Now? They're absolute character action game classics, and nuGod of War is the ultimate backstab and casualization of a franchise that ultimately didn't deserve a fate this horrible.
>Half Life 2 The odd one out, sure, as FPSes are still the only genre western devs can deliver on, but HL2 represents a regression of the amazing combat system introduced by Duke Nukem 3D and its engine (which subpar games like Blood would use, and great ones like Shadow Warrior would take advantage of). The scripted sequences in HL1 were impressive for the time because there was nothing like them, truly, but by HL2, only a retard would be impressed by these 20 minute long cutscenes you can't skip.
The Warriors was a PS2 game (and a great one I won't deny). DMC5, Sekiro, Code Vein and RE2 remake came out in 2019.
Also have you played Rockstar's recent games like RDR2 or GTA5? They play like total slow shit and are nothing like The Warriors.
Oliver Lewis
I’d argue that the varied amount of gameplay they have more than makes up for it. Not every game has to have large and varied movesets like DMC and Ninja Gaiden. I love those games but you won’t see me complaining that not every game is the same as them.
Jonathan Bell
>Demon Souls >deep combat pfahaha
Ryan Sanchez
Oh, and speaking of great Western combat, there’s also Prototype, Web of Shadows and Hulk Ultimate Destruction, which I highly recommend.
Christian Nguyen
It's not even about moveset. GTA5 and RDR2 just play like gigantic slow shit compared to even GTASA, the last good GTA entry. There's this odd belief with western devs that more animation=better game, when that couldn't be further from the truth
> Prototype, Web of Shadows and Hulk Ultimate Destruction
Those are also old as fuck
Name a western dev boss that comes even close to these guys in the past decade
>Ratchet and Clank >Jak >Prototype, Web of Shadows and Hulk Ultimate Destruction
Is this really the best western devs can do? Most of these are just open world meme games or platformers that aren't combat focused
James Carter
Why not swap Dark Souls with Monster Hunter ? That combat system is crafted with way more thought and love.
Jacob Anderson
Dark Souls was inspired by Monster Hunter and Ninja Gaiden (Ninja Gaiden came out before MH), so just take it as an endorsement of MH. I really liked Dark Souls and its combat, but I won't deny the importance of Demon Souls
Asher Thompson
>Or good combat systems? Dark Messiah, Gothic, FEAR, Kingdom Come Deliverance and Jedi Academy have been made by western developers. Half Life 2 has good combat system and so does nu-GoW. I think you're just full of shit
Tyler Rivera
>FF XV blocks your path.
Lucas Phillips
The Reaper baby from ME2 was peak western boss design
Daniel Sullivan
>Dark Messiah, Gothic, FEAR, Kingdom Come Deliverance and Jedi Academy have been made by western developers.
Except for KCD, all these games are old as dirt - and KCD is incredibly polarizing.
Aiden Moore
>Gothic, Kingdom Come Deliverance I love both of those games but the combat is the worst part of those games and a huge hassle
Juan Green
t. fucking coomer
Nolan Stewart
They are different genres you moron
Brody Bell
FF15 is an outlier, not the standard
Bad western games are the standard, not the outlier
Hudson Watson
>Kingdom Come Deliverance Is utter fucking trash both when it comes to role playing and especially with its combat mechanics. At least say Mordhau. Hell even For Honor is worth bringing up more.
Jaxson Morales
Most bosses are boring, one trick ponies that you can analyze and beat fairly easily in a single match. One of the reasons why Souls games are so popular is because the bosses actually put up a decent fight, especially in 3 and BB.
Dylan James
I don't fuck I only coom
Joseph Mitchell
You may not like their combat systems necause tastes differ but they're objectively great, except ranged which sucks nigger balls in both
Noah Ross
>If my game plays like shit, I'll just say it's a different genre!
Doesn't work for Assassin's Creed and doesn't work for the rest of the other cringey western games.
Blake Garcia
But ranged always sucks tbqh. I am not familiar with a game where shooting cross/bows was fun
Alexander Peterson
God of War games had pretty good bosses. I remember defeating Hercules by only using Hermes Dash in GOW3 because nothing else was working against him. Haven't played the new GOW but the boss fights were alright.
Jonathan Kelly
Still bitching about the "West," huh?
Fucking Rent Free Baby
Carson Rivera
>Half Life 2 has good combat system
It's literally inferior to Build engine games from the 90's. The Gravity weapon really doesn't add much to the game as it's just an inferior weapon that requires environmental ammo and you can solve the games puzzles with the E button.
>and so does nu-GoW
Reminder a nuGOW fanboy unironically posted this in a previous thread and thought it looked good
Japanese Games have even better story than Western games tho.
Angel Gomez
>Liking "Totally Not Dark Souls Rolls" rolls >Liking "Epic forced slow down to show off how cool the game is" (even though the game isn't) >Liking "Watch this epic grab animation play out while you sit there with the controller in your hand like a cuck"
You have bad taste fren
Lincoln Phillips
>journey that subverts the common tropes and expectations vs >teenagers killing god
Jack Evans
It's funny because Japanese gamers don't buy action games, most Japanese action game sales come from the West. Which is a good thing because all action games are just shitty braindead rhythm games.
Joseph Martinez
>rolls Have been a thing before Dark Souls (although DS popularized them] and I was talking about overall aesthetic and the looks of the action in the webm, which looks awesome >not liking some slowdowns This shit is great unless it's figuratively every 3 seconds. Well paced slo-mo makes almost any combat better >"Watch this epic grab animation play out while you sit there with the controller in your hand like a cuck" You mean, like in every game OP's pic claimed to have a good combat system?
Gabriel Wright
>You mean, like in every game OP's pic claimed to have a good combat system?
Character action games have rightfully been criticized for it. Thankfully games like NGB are awesome (unlike nuGOW) to make up for it.
>This shit is great unless it's figuratively every 3 seconds. Well paced slo-mo makes almost any combat better
Dark Souls on the other hand doesn't take away control or do cringe slowmo for the combat and it's still considered one of the best combat systems for a reason and is consistently ripped off by cringe western games like The Surge for a reason.
Colton Anderson
It's only fitting that we have Nega-Beepzorz now.
Eli Mitchell
What? God of War combat system isn't perfect, but it does have more going on than smashing one button, or even in comparison with the older games.
Charles Robinson
Imagine thinking any of these games are hard.
Retard lol
Nathan Brooks
>batman Hollywood IP, and Hollywood doesn't know anything about videogames >half life Valve is a bunch of idiots and nothing they've ever made has been worth playing. The only game that was semi-decent from them, they killed off years ago and only retards play it anymore. CS was only good before they got their money-grubbing grabbler hands on it >god of war Never heard of it, but if you're looking for good games you shouldn't look at console trash.
Carter Edwards
See: Only a SNOYgroid would be impressed by NuGOW's terribly slow combat system.
Leo Jones
The best fights in nuGOW were the Valkyrie fights, but even then, they got predictable, and by the final one, the camera is so gimped by the over-the-shoulder stuff that you just end up getting hit from the back over and over until you end up constantly rolling to dodge like a retard instead of actually fighting.
Matthew Powell
>Character action games have rightfully been criticized for it. Thankfully games like NGB are awesome (unlike nuGOW) to make up for it. I prefer more down to earth looking games like Gothic, Dark Messiah or Stalker and I generally dislike too flashy and epic combat but even I have to admit new Mortal Kombat games are amazing. I probably wouldn't be able to play on daily basis but when I meet friends sometimes I love me some rounds of MK. Executing a hard combo or even that attack that you press those two front buttons on a pad (the one that you have to charge energy for) and looking at the carnage that follows feels great despite the fact that they take away control for you in some cases for even maybe 20 or 30 seconds. Some games are all about the spectacle. I wouldn't say a game that looks spectacular but only requires a mindless mashing of one button has a good combat systems but it's not like spectacularity and deep or complex control system are mutually exclusive, which MK and nuGoW (although to a significantly smaller degree) prove. >Dark Souls on the other hand doesn't take away control or do cringe slowmo for the combat and it's still considered one of the best combat systems for a reason and is consistently ripped off by cringe western games like The Surge for a reason. Except Dark Souls has no cancelling and some attacks take a looong time after you finish executing them and you have no control for that time. It's even one of the reasons why the combat is so good since if you make a mistake you are fucked and can't back off that easily. A good example of slo-mo is of course FEAR where you can use and cancel it at any time but it's limited so you can't just slo-mo throymugh entire game and have to thini when in combat it is best to use it, while most of the time you're going to be fighting in real time.
Jacob Wilson
>I prefer more down to earth looking games like Gothic, Dark Messiah or Stalker and I generally dislike too flashy and epic combat Maybe you just need to learn to have fun.
Caleb Jones
Kek, just about what I expected
The series has fallen so far since I first saw Ares in the skyline in GOW1 and was so impressed
Lincoln Wright
Even going back to the olden days western developers have had more of a fascination with simulation than anything. A lot of it started with "Dude how cool would it be an X-Wing/mech pilot/elf warrior/Batman/whatever else" and it all went from there. Germans get the most flak and seem to like the most comical examples of it but you can see the strands running through everything else. The ambition churns out some very interesting things sometimes, or at least it used to, but sight is often lost of the game itself. Lately the obsessive angle seems especially turned towards 2deep4u, and scoring points in that area is seen as the highest praise with the added bonus of people not even needing to play the game to fawn over it, so that's where most energy is burned. The Japanese seem to consider core gameplay first instead of starting at broad concept, paying more careful attention to the gameplay loop as I see it called here, usually resulting in games that are tighter and more systematic, enough so that the framework is there for interesting and challenging tests on the mechanics to become possible. Beating your dick in the woods for huge stretches of time and wandering off to click down Alduin whenever you feel like it like you would in Skyrim just doesn't happen as often. Western developers are more apt to ask what Commander Shepard and Dr. Chakwas are going to talk about at various points in the story in their meetings than what number of i-frames on dodges they should be designing enemies around. We used to be far better at all aspects though, it may be that our nerds were compromised first and the Japanese won't be very far behind us and chase the dream of making games movies or anime, which Kojima has been their foremost trailblazer.
Alexander Allen
But I am having fun with the more down to earth games, user. It's just that when I see a super spectacular attack where dragons fly down from the sky and smite your enemy and then there's an earthquake and a volcano emerges from the ground swallowing your enemy and after that the planets collide exactly where your enemy is standing and THEN he stands up and fights you it takes away all the feeling of power from that. There should be no single atom from his body left intact. The attack was so severe that not only should the enemy be decimated, his mother who's sitting comfortably in a chair on the other end of the world should forget that she ever gave birth to him, the entire world should hold annual ceremonies to commemorate the fact that the guy never existed although he actually did, and yet he's standing there and doing the gesture like Neo in Matrix when he was fighting against Agent Smith. I hate this shit beyond recognition. Somehow MK series are the only games where this doesn't bother me so much, in all other games if I see it, it makes me drop the game forever without fail.
Jacob Sullivan
As opposed to old GOW? That shit was repetitive as fuck.
Justin Brooks
>>Somehow MK series are the only games where this doesn't bother me so much >It's okay when western games do it!
Levi Jones
This is not a good comparison at all. So I can't really argue it.
Gavin Cooper
But it was soulful repetitiveness, which is different.
Blake Barnes
metroid prime 2 had pretty good bosses
John Howard
Yiff in hell. Furries to Auschwitz
Ryder Gutierrez
Old GOW was just trying to be DMC and there's nothing wrong with that.
NuGOW is just Last of Us with a bad combat system, SNOYgroid
Cameron Rodriguez
>Japanese side Cat ears and tail only SHE'S TOTALLY A NOT HUMAN GUYS japs are a bunch of pussies
Kevin Kelly
>Liking "Totally Not Dark Souls Rolls" rolls I Don't get your point here, what is wrong with it? It even has a short roll which is worse than long roll, but you can attack after rolling much faster. Which creates some depth even if it's just a little.
>Liking "Watch this epic grab animation play out while you sit there with the controller in your hand like a cuck" In the valkyrie fights (and most bosses or mini-bosses), the cinematic just plays when you kill them. So it's not like it's affecting the flow of combat, since the encounter just ended. You can do the "cinematic moment" on normal enemies whenever, but those depend on the stun meter, and you can always choose to not execute the move. And they are atleast really brief, so it doesn't affect the flow of combat that much if you decide to use them.
Asher Morris
Imagine being this low IQ. Is it HL2 throwing your retarded ass off?
It has 0 bosses - even though 90's FPSes had them all the time. Why? Western devs suck at bosses
Logan Cox
Fuck western devs
Ryan Taylor
JUST
Andrew Rivera
Sad that GOW created a really cool identity for itself when it came to look, style, and story, but has had an identity crisis in the gameplay and game design department since the first game.
