Why are traditional roguelikes so much better in theory rather than in action...

Why are traditional roguelikes so much better in theory rather than in action? They're just not fun to play but they look like so much fun.

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>theyre not fun to play
Speak for yourself. I love em. If you're not enjoying the more open ended ones maybe try something more streamlined like DCSS or DoomRL or One Way Heroics

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Because procedurally generated content will always feel tedious and soulless.

God I hate CoQ

thanks for reminding me to play some Qud while the quarantine is on

Why's that? Out of curiosity.

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> one way heroics
B-but user!! It has UNLOCKS!! BETWEEN RUNS!!!!!

Too much surprise butt sex
The game would keep fucking me in the ass out of nowhere and I’d lose characters I had put a while into while thinking I was doing well, while learning very little to help me in the next playthrough
Like the one story event where you contract some fungus that eats your tongue and you can’t speak anymore fucked me up hard. And after I died I checked the wiki for more info and it was like “haha you should have been preparing well in advance for this from the moment you start playing and have the cure before you contract it” which just feels really inorganic gameplay wise
Or this other time I’m having a nice run and have good gear when I see this saw robot on its own or something that looked challenging but I had been able to beat challenging enemies before so I walk up to it and it dismembers my legs and saws off my face and I die like a bitch. When I look it up it tells me I’m meant to REMOVE MY ARMOR because that’s the logical thing to do since the saws ignore AC which I had a lot of and you just need to max dodge rate by being naked

>traditional roguelikes
>qud
No lol. Qud is turn-based skyrim. Also, it's boring because in reality the game can easily be "beaten" in one mediocre hour but people try to stretch it out to have 200 hours of gameplay.

If you are looking to get into the genre start with DCSS and angband to learn the ropes, then move onto the actually good ones like Nethack, Sil-Q, Cogmind, etc.

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just play with quick save + quick load.

>Too much surprise butt sex
Bro, you can just go straight to Stilt and get full end-game armor and weapons within the first 10 minutes of the game.
>thinking I was doing well
You're not.
>learning very little to help me in the next playthrough
Because there's nothing to learn. The game has almost no content.

My main issue with most RL's is the god-awful rectangles connected by hallways level design. I cant stand it, especially after being spoiled by DCSS level generation.

savescumming is a great way to be permanently shit at roguelikes

The joy from the feeling of progression and the ability to explore the many different interactions you can have slowly fades away as you realize in the end you're just auto-exploring and spamming a directional button to kill enemies.

DCSS is hideous. Nethack has a ton of cool maps, ancient mediterranean islands, castles, fortresses, wizard towers, labyrinths, Hell and Heaven...

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What I hate about roguelikes is forgetting all the secrets and tricks and coming back trying to play it after like a 6 month hiatus
fuck remembering all the shit i need to know to win ADOM

I used to think it looked awful too, but it's grown on me. I'm mostly referring to the actual layout of the dungeons though. I really do need to play Nethack at some point.

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I mean DCSS has beaches, mines, ever-shifting labyrinths, an arena, volcanoes, ice caverns, pyramid tombs, wizard laboratories and all kinds of other shit too

They're very clunky, it's like memorizing vim keybinds all over for every new game you try. Also extremely graphically underwhelming, most of them have shitty, free tilesets from the early 2000s.

>I'm mostly referring to the actual layout of the dungeons though
Yes, that's what I'm referring to. You should play Nethack (and Sil) and see how those "rectangular" maps actually work in practice. DCSS is just pre-baked kid pix drawings with monster packs scattered on top of them. You aren't really exploring dungeons in DCSS, just pressing O until something to kill shows up. That's not how these games are normally paced.

> Wanting to get good at rogue likes of all things
ishygy digy

>just pressing O until something to kill shows up
That's true for strong melee characters. Fragile races and spell casters not so much, auto explore is a great way to get yourself killed

What options make the GUI like this from vanilla download? This is much easier to parse than the cmdline looking shit

>spell casters
>auto explore is a great way to get yourself killed
No, it's absolutely not. Got gid.

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I really dont think that's the case, and blindly o-tabbing is an extremely quick way of getting yourself killed playing anything other than easy mode minotaur, hill orc, or gargoyle melee.

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Fragile races have high stealth and casters have some kind of blink or teleport to escape if you autoexplore around a corner and run into something

Go to hardfought.org and follow the directions on there to get set up on a public server then look up how to enable curses interface and customize it to your liking. (alternatively, there is an option to just copy an user's rcfile straight through the terminal in the options and all you have to do is enter their player name)

just play elona. its kind of a cross between TES and Rogue

If you're streaking at 6 runs then auto explore is just taking unnecessary risk. Should never do it really

If you're super autistic you should also map out every step you take and try to backtrack on known tiles only so that you minimize your chances of hitting some teleport trap or a shaft

I'm just saying this image is literally the most interesting layout I've ever seen in any of the nethack or angband variants, meanwhile almost every floor in DCSS has something neat about it.

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How good is cogmind?
It's been on my radar for awhile now but It never seemed worth the pricetag.

>(lightly wounded)
>dead everywhere
>i w-was just auto exploring!!
yeah nah, thats a fault kiddo. how do you even die with blink and passwall. also
>playing offline like faggot
no wonder you still havent learned how to play

>this image is literally the most interesting layout I've ever seen in any of the nethack or angband variants
It's not a variant. That's just a sample of what nethack looks like once you survive past the first 15 minutes lol. nethack has all sorts of crazy places and they actually matter, it's not just window dressing. crossing a moat or something is like a very big problem.

>playing offline
not that guy, but what does that mean

It's interesting. You play as a sentient drone making your way through a drone hivemind mainframe, constantly replacing parts as they're broken and trying to avoid drawing the attention of the mainframe by keeping your destructive activity to a minimum. There are little sects of other sentient drones scattered around, doing their best to hide and survive. You can call on them to help if you want. It's pretty good, but 20 bucks is steep.

That was from one of my very early runs and you're right, it wasn't a good example of how auto explore can kill you, just wanted to post a screenshot I had of myself splatting. I play offline sometimes because I live in the woods and I dont like having a 1/3rd second delay on all my actions.

DCSS has an online mode where people can spectate and it records all your run stats.

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It's not window dressing in DCSS either. Going to the shoals when you don't have some way to deal with the coming-and-going tide makes the area far more complicated since water halves your action count. You could hit a big back while the tide is down just for it to start creeping up in the middle of a fight. And even then there's sirens who confuse you into moving towards them, dragging you into the water to get wrecked

Because you only like the idea and haven't given the actual thing a chance

I know how DCSS works, bro. Shoals does not compare to crossing water in NetHack.

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vanilla angband is fun and fast-paced

I mean, that's the kind of bullshit that sort of makes me NOT want to play the game.

Isn't that great? Unlocks between runs are bad when they are like in rogue legacy.

It makes the game exciting. You win NetHack by cunning, not leveling up. You can be an ultra strong near invincible super saiyan riding a flying dragon that vomits lightning bolts and still die to something absurd. Your strength lies entirely in your items and your ability to use all of that utility. That constant danger keeps things interesting.

The problem with OWH is that it is piss easy and extremely shallow.

Only if you play as a based Kobold Rogue.
Elona is ADOM's snotty red headed step child. It's really not even a game, more like a grindan simulator.

mages are pretty fun too but they have a REALLY slow start.

>If you're streaking at 6 runs then auto explore is just taking unnecessary risk. Should never do it really
The only time you shouldn't autoexplore is if you are doing turn count runs. But if you are playing DCSS for score, you really might as well go ahead and snip your dick off.

Of cogmind ever goes on sale someone make a thread for it or I’ll miss it

I think it's almost necessary with some of the more wacky games. Steamband comes to mind, lost a character from a TP trap sending me 7 levels up from where I was safe and comfortable and a panzer tank one shotted me. Cataclysm DDA also has some bullshit deaths.

Play Frozen Depths.

>Cataclysm DDA also has some bullshit deaths.
You should never die in CDDA. That "game" is a joke.

Fun with a capital F

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i thought this game was for little kids

Play something less complex if you're not willing to invest the time. No cerebral games are fun unless you've been hooked enough to invest and you have to be in the right mood even then - just like Strat games.
When you love them you can burn hours in moments and you try to tweak everything delighting in your optimised char/empire. When you hate them it feels like there's too many turns between something HAPPENING and there's no point to micro management.

If you get the latter but not the former it's prolly just low IQ ,':^) - that or you haven't found an entry level gimmick to hook into. Pick one based on something you like rather than the mechanics.

I mean there isn't much middle ground between fragile glass starter baby and unstoppable death machine, especially seeing as it's almost all luck as to whether you have the right resources early enough to have a good start

>Play something less complex if you're not willing to invest the time
Qud is not complex and has no micro management.

You can EASILY start on sil-Q. No need to tolerate DCSS.
Another good starter is Infra Arcana. Simple but fun. Easy for a good portion to get people feeling progress but not being so simple they walk away.

I don't really play Qud to be honest. It was a general piece of advice for someone who can't handle RL conventions

Nothing is strong enough to really hurt you until mutations hit max, which is like 20 hours into the game with default settings. I usually play with bad-knees and slow footed and its still trivial to get away from everything.
>it's almost all luck as to whether you have the right resources early enough to have a good start
Lab start/unwilling with 8 computers is the most consistent start, but you can start anywhere. The default evac start is just vaulting through houses for days until you find a lab ID and sleeping in basements. So many people just play the game as stupidly as possible. It's so insanely hard to die. The game is so hilariously unbalanced. I don't think Kevin cares about gameplay at all.

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IA does not play like normal roguelikes and people that only know about roguelikes from entry-level stuff like DCSS and mystery dungeons struggle immensely with it.

I don't think normies could even wrap their head around how stats work in Sil-Q.