Reuses the same 4 levels over and over and pads out the game with unnecessary backtracking

How did they botch MD so hard

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This is golden, why don't they make them like this anymore?

By being based on human Revolution which was already a botched shitjob.

>HR
>bad

oh my god, JC , a bomb!

It was. The levels were retarded linear, every "choice" was between a vent or a door that would lead to the exact same room, and the augmentations were retarded limited as well as highly contextual, completely removing fun shit like
from the game. Human Revolution was pure fucking trash.

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just ignore the faggots and go straight for the sword lmao

I'm not gonna stand here and listen to you badmouth the greatest game this world has ever known.

Also aesthetically it looked like absolute shit. Unbelievablt ugly and not in a dystopian kind of way. Just terrible.

The game that keeps on giving.

Also some people may think its too much but I enjoyed revision mod , is pretty cool for a second run, the more time passes the more I love just going to late 90s early 00s low poly classics with mods and just play them again.

Aesthetically they tried to copy Blade Runner, and they somewhat succeeded. It still was retarded how the "prequel" looked more futuristic than the sequel. HR wasn't irredeemably bad, and for what it was, it was very good. It just didn't match the openness of Deus Ex. I genuinely believe that it is impossible to make a game nowadays like the original DX, simply because the original was so successful because technical limitations from the time allowed for so much more freedom in how the gameplay could be structured. Can you imagine trying to replicate the level design of, say, Ocean Lab, in a game as visually busy as DX:MD? Additionally, a lot of games back then weren't afraid to take chances, it was a pioneer era. Now, it's all a different flavor of the same general formula, especially for big studios. That being said, I also believe that a lot of the things that were possible in the original DX were not consciously designed with the level design in mind, like how you can literally JUMP all across Ocean Lab. I wish more games nowadays weren't afraid to do this, and for being a "modern" more neutered sequel to DX, I believe that HR really wasn't all that bad.

Sounds like a load of excuses. I don't care for excuses. I care for results, and the result is that Human Revolution was a fucking terrible game that nobody would give a shit about if it didn't carry the Deus Ex name.

The story was nice, augmentations were pretty fun but stealth got really easy with cloak field. Devs wanted to add more to the endings but couldn't due to time constraints, one of the few flaws I can think of right now about HR was that mechanical augments were pretty garbage and had to be regularly maintenanced in OG Deus Ex but in HR they're borderline magical with things like electromagnetic parachutes.
However MD is inexcusable, the graphics and available augmentations are an upgrade but everything else is a downgrade except for the occasional qol like enemies no longer instantly alerting every other enemy on the map when detecting you or that now you get exp rewards for unlocking something with a password (as much exp as you'd get from hacking it)
I thought the complaint with Invisible War was that it downgraded on what made the original Deus Ex fun, it was pretty solid on its own but not as fun as Deus Ex
I can shed some light on HR though
>health and energy regenerate automatically
Only health, highest difficulty doesn't allow for battery regeneration unless it's a mid-progress battery
>you can't grab on to ledges and will instantly die from even a short drop
What kills you in HR isn't a short drop, and there's an augment to fix it. HR wasn't really designed with ledges in mind but the jumping augmentation fixes most ledge problems, if a ledge is supposed to be reachable there's usually something nearby to help you climb with
>4 active augmentations
I only found use for the cloaking one and the x-ray one, typhon isn't really good because you have to run into the enemies to kill them and silent footsteps is only good with cloaking
>boss fights
Every arena gives you ammo/weapons to fight with before or during the arena, Director's Cut fixed it further by letting the stun gun damage the enemy
>cutscenes
Only one cutscene and it was the one with the panic room
>contradicts deus ex
I think the only contradiction I found was augs being good

>Aesthetically they tried to copy Blade Runner, and they somewhat succeeded. It still was retarded how the "prequel" looked more futuristic than the sequel. HR wasn't irredeemably bad, and for what it was, it was very good. It just didn't match the openness of Deus Ex. I genuinely believe that it is impossible to make a game nowadays like the original DX, simply because the original was so successful because technical limitations from the time allowed for so much more freedom in how the gameplay could be structured. Can you imagine trying to replicate the level design of, say, Ocean Lab, in a game as visually busy as DX:MD?
Arkane manages just fine to have level design on par with the older immersive sims.

Problem with Eidos is that they're a bunch of zoomers who were just handed the Deus Ex Ip by Square and told to make a Deus Ex game despite not having any affinity for that style of game and not even enjoying it. Which is why the game has weird design decisions like the over the top anime shit in the form of the 3rd person transitions.

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I agree with you, it's as bad as most games of it's time but both nu Deus Ex are pretty horrible and have shit central themes.

I dont even care about the aesthetics simply because even in the console mess that was Invisible War at least there the paranoida, confusion and conspiracy is preserved even if the plot is not as good as the the first.

I really love all npc lines in Deus Ex 1 and the way all the elements interweave to really sell the plot.

Sheldon is a good writer he should have done more stuff.

>Only one cutscene and it was the one with the panic room

>more than an hour of cutscenes
>"only one cutscene"

youtube.com/watch?v=ddPqPuxc1eQ

Deus Ex is very much post cyberpunk, while Eidos just tried to do a bootleg Gits.

Let's just picks stuff that is really cyberpunky and stuff it into the game.

That said I still enjoyed HR but never replayed it.

Was it implied she's got the sword before you go into the police station vault?

It's the only one I remember where Jensen acts like a buffoon but it's just as possible that she had social augments of her own. The only other times where he's in a vulnerable position is after entering a stasis pod (he beat a lot of people before being subdued in the Missing Link DLC, you can visit the area where it happened) and if you got the sabotaged biochip upgrade

>Arkane manages just fine to have level design on par with the older immersive sims.
I disagree completely. The original Dishonored was somewhat open as far as the streets went, but actual mission areas were extremely limited in how you could approach them and whatnot. For the most part, there was very little degree of verticality to your approach. I barely touched the 2nd but I recall it being significantly more linear

I just recently watched the 44 minute documentary about the creation of Human Revolution and I think some things are starting to make sense to me when it comes to that game:
1) Both the Lead artist and writer failed to explain what "cyberpunk" means, the lead writer even going as far as describing it as some obscure genre that people have never heard about ("...but it's like the Matrix"). Likewise, the lead artist differentiated it from other sci-fi by saying it's not like the future in Star Wars "or whatever". The simplest and most on point description of cyberpunk is "High tech, low life", meaning stories centered on the underworld of a high tech future. Instead, these developers were rambling about conspiracies, corporations, rapid and sudden technological changes to society "and stuff".
2) Much as they keep repeating "we respect the source material (please don't kill us)" in the documentary, an equal amount of time is spent diminishing Deus Ex as just a product of it's time as an excuse to change everything in Human Revolution. I strongly believe that many of the team leads interviewed in the documentary has no history with or have not really researched and analysed the original game. They understood well enough that at it's core a Deus Ex game must have an open leveldesign, but beyond that they made their own game and setting. The lead writer seemed content with dropping hints and references tying it to the first game, but otherwise felt that they had free reigns as it is set 20 years in the past, which is quite a bizarre thing to say but I get what she means. In the end, Human Revolution strayed way far and became it's own universe that can not possibly match up with the original game.

Arkane had good intentions but they really dropped the ball with Dishonored and Prey. And I enjoyed Prey.
But something was limiting their potential, maybe that fag Harvey.
They really wanted to be the successors to LGS but in the darkest of fucking shittiest console gen times although Prey came a bit more later.

Fuck it all we will never have a Arx Fatalis and Dark messiah sequels.

>It's the only one I remember where Jensen acts like a buffoon
He acts like a buffoon in the cutscene that precedes every boss fight.

why do there even need to be these cutscenes? all they do is take away player choice. instead of being able to deal with hostage situations or boss fights freely, you're teleported into the middle of an encounter.

Makes sense but it's obvious, I mean the dissonance is everywhere especially in MD. The setting is cool I am way past caring about looks, the story and plot are still crap.
Jensen kinda obscured the problems.

Deus Ex was a storm like many other games, of perfect timing and decisions. Difficult to replicate.

>I disagree completely. The original Dishonored was somewhat open as far as the streets went, but actual mission areas were extremely limited in how you could approach them and whatnot. For the most part, there was very little degree of verticality to your approach. I barely touched the 2nd but I recall it being significantly more linear
You're delusional. The Dishonored games have tons of verticality. In fact, one criticism I have of the game is that Blink makes it too easy to traverse high places.

Prey also has great level design, fur surpassing its predecessor (SS2) in that regard.

No idea but you weren't playing the game right if you didnt raid every single building you came across

>Difficult to replicate.
Not like anybody tried. All the sequels that followed have entirely different design goals.

His only mistake is not shooting as soon as possible
>Barrett
He appears behind him and lands a hard punch, the other Tyrants leave him and Jensen alone confident that he'll kill Jensen
>the woman
Appears out of nowhere via cloaking while talking to Eliza
>the guy
Disguised as one of the moving mannequins behind Jensen
>the chinese woman
Locks herself behind a bulletproof glass pane
It's more clear that Jensen wants answers and follow the trail than to kill them outright, killing the bosses is supposed to be the last resort and that's how he ends up interrogating two-three of them after the fight
I can see your point about the encounters though, but technically Deus Ex had bosses appear too, it's just that you could skip them in at least two occasions.
I want to play Deus Ex sooner or later, I'm going to start on it very soon, I just wanted to finish HR and MD before playing it and I only got all 3 games because of the recent sale

>I can see your point about the encounters though, but technically Deus Ex had bosses appear too
No, it didn't. In Deus Ex bosses are stationary. You walk up to them. Heck, you can even take them out from a distance without triggering the dialogue. Deus Ex did not have cutscenes where the player's control is taken away to show JC slowly walking into a room and being beaten up by the boss.

Fair enough

People who pretend there's a huge quality gap between MD and HR are insane.

>he actually followed the maid instead of immediately fucking off and finding the paper lantern that opens a secret door
Also she has a book on the second floor that talks about the "perfect sword"

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>People who pretend there's a huge quality gap between MD and HR are insane.
That's the problem. There isn't a quality gap. MD should have been a leap forward, but instead it plays a glorified expansion pack for HR, despite coming out more than half a decade later.

Even Invisible war was in some ways more ambitious a sequel, with stuff like being able to choose the gender of the protagonist (which could affect your choices) and play around with different factions

MD has very awkward dialogue, lots of long loading screens, for a 50GB game I finished it in 22 hours and some time of it was spent alt-tabbed, the story is worse too Jensen is an unwitting Illuminati pawn and none of the story was actually developed between start and finish except that Jensen is going to visit Janus all according to keikaku, Breach is a gamemode nobody wants, the DLCs are expensive despite being essentially mission packs, most of the new augments save for remote hacking are too situational and not really worth it (why have the invincibility augment when you can stay in cover and there is plenty of it), the game feels rushed even with all the years between it and HR

That's a fair criticism and the big thing I didn't like about MD: It was just HR2. Game development cycles and budgets have basically ballooned with totally diminished ambition and I guess with how successful HR was it's not too surprising they just did more of the same. They even admitted they just used Jensen again despite him probably dying because creating another well-received protagonist would be too hard.

>The levels were retarded linear, every "choice" was between a vent or a door that would lead to the exact same room, and the augmentations were retarded limited as well as highly contextual
I legit thought you were describing the first Deus Ex till I saw the post you were replying to.

>I legit thought you were describing the first Deus Ex till I saw the post you were replying to.
The first Deus Ex relied far less on vents than Human Revolution.

The first Deus Ex didn't have contextual augmentations. They always had to be activated manually.

Good job on exposing yourself as a zoomer.

>he didn't stack LAMs and speed jump like some sort of augmented batman on the rooftops, eventually ending up on the hotel roof and ending up straight into the backrooms

looking back, the amount of entry ways to that section is insane. Why can't we have good map design that encourages exploration to the max anymore

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Surpasses only in being made with a much more modern engine and having stuff like the white stuff gun.

In all other things it's pretty forgettable, gun variety enemy design. They tried to go aesthetically closer to bioshit than SS.

It's divisive, I like the little tricks you can do with mimicry, and the level design, and the ending is interesting. But the plot logs are not as cool as System Shock.

Don't kid yourself faggot. If you want to be stealth non lethal you absolutely MUST invest your skills in swimming so you can take the boring linear path of underwater tunnels and vents that string together. There's no proper balance to the level designs or how they correspond with the skills.

Trying to turn the argument into autistic semantics? No user, you ARE the zoomer.

Don't talk about video games above your pay grade you eternally pleb zoomer.

'more of the same' sequels aren't necessarily bad.

Take for example Thief 2, which uses the same mechanics as Thief 1 with some minor additions. The difference is that a) Thief 2 came out less than 2 years after Thief 1, not half a decade like HR>MD and b) Thief 2 had a completely different tone and atmosphere, focusing on a steampunk revolution rather than the first game's pagan fantasy, whereas MD never feels like it has a strong story to tell

>actually ever entering the apartment instead of sneaking in without letting them know you were ever there
Dumb frogposter.

>makes a retarded, unfunny, inapplicable "clever zinger" for epic imaginary karma
>gets called out for being retarded
>S-SEMANTICS
Fuck off, retard.

You're still not addressing my post, you're just using epic meme phrases.

Try listening to the developer commentary that came with HR. It provides alot more context and information than a 44 min interview

Allow me to reiterate. You're not clever. You're not funny. You're an ebarrassing fucking loser.

pastebin.com/gsc1Rtm2
IW was in no way solid, and anyone trying to glorify it gets their opinion discarded instantly.

>One World Religion
>One World Commerce Center
>Templars
>Russian's cyborgs

I seriously wanna know what was going through in the writing office when they came up with it because it seriously feels like someone just read one sci-fi novel and maybe watched a few medival shows and just did a rush job.

They went with that stupid “augment your experience” dlc and fell for the episodic release meme

Saying it was better than HR isn't necessarily glorifying it

But there is, MD is a lot better.

Still has better worldbuilding than HR/MD/

The developer commentary was so good and sprinkled throughout the game. You start to know the people who worked on it and I was genuinely sad when I finished it and couldn't hear them talk more.

They abused the unreal engine so badly I'm amazed it ran. The levels were so badly built and the engine couldn't cope with the amount of slop or those unoptimized layouts.

They may rip off Ghost in the Shell but if you actually took the time to read all the emails you would realize the game's lore is far better "What if all the religions in the world became one religion"

Literally that single sentence makes your entire point moot.

>"What if all the religions in the world became one religion"
As opposed to the brilliant world building of:

>spend millions of dollars to outfit a guy with cutting-edge technology that gives him superstrength to let him carry goods
>a forklift only costs 15 thousand dollars
>augmentation is the source of societal conflict, riots, heated political debates, etc. because people are afraid augmented people will take their jobs
>we are supposed to take this seriously

And it helped me answer so many questions about how they were constrained in terms of the engine and graphics like not being able to have more than two people in a conversation or how each air vent was copy-pasted and how they wanted each map to have multiple side quests but found difficulty executing them properly or how they had to call one guy to write 40 emails in the span of 3 days just because they wanted to add more flavor.

I wish more games had dev commentary because it really makes you appreciate all the care that goes into the little details.

No, it's absolutely that. Look at the fucking image. It's a load of bullshit that actually tries to make you think IW wasn't a pile of shit. And it's not just the image, I constantly see this kind of shit in DX threads in post form. It's like they either never played IW or hope that nobody else did.

filtered

Do you know even know the sheer stupidity you have when you think a problem that the game itself answers for you if you looked clearly enough (and your inability to understand what world-building is) is worse than a 10 year's old understanding of religion and economics is?

Don't resort to this shit.