Did New Vegas retcon the Brotherhood of Steel?

>the BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest.
it was never for heroic reasons they helped out the protag
in 1 they would have been butfucked by Supermutants if they didnt help the Vault Dweller
in 2 they where already getting butfucked by the Enclave and helped you because you where going to fight them
literally everything they did in F1&2 was purely out of self interest
unlike F3 where they somehow grow a jesus complex and become wasteland gaurdians

>Up until FO:NV, the BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest

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It's pretty obvious if you play New Vegas (and don't just read second-hand or biased opinions on Yas Forums) that the game hates the Brotherhood, wants you to hate them, and sees them as a source of jobbers for the PC.
In FO1, they aren't entirely sympathetic ― they don't really respect you much, not even after you've retrieved the holodisk. They're insular and indifferent to the fates of outsiders. But you get a more balanced picture of them, especially when you gain access to the bunker, and you speak to people like Vree, Mathia, Maxson, or the requisitions officer. They're a hard people, with a strange culture, but they're also competent, pragmatic and relatively fair-minded. You can convince them to aid you in assaulting Mariposa and the secret Cathedral base, and in fact this ending, where the Brotherhood willingly relinquishes its tight grip on technology, is established as canonical by FO2.
For whatever reason, in New Vegas, any subtlety is completely lost. There's nothing positive about the Brotherhood in that game: no one as best as I can recall says anything good or even level about them, and your one scribe companion spends virtually every waking second moaning and cussing them out for their supposedly parochial attitudes. Why they're even in the game at all save for the aforementioned PC wank I honestly can't say.

You can greentext all you want, the truth is that the BOS were never this villainous until NV. If the original intention of the Fallout devs was to make them morally grey techno raiders, they did a shit job at it.

Glad someone understands what I'm saying. What's confusing is that the Black Isle devs act as if the BOS has always been like this and that Fallout 3 somehow retconned them

What was "villainous" about the BOS in NV? They were just more paranoid dick heads in NV compared to 1 because they are hiding from the NCR since they lost some of their force to the NCR.

I really miss the days when Yas Forums didn't gobble bait so greedily. You zoomers really are fucking retards.

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They murder non-BOS if there's even a slight chance of them knowing about their presence in the Mojave. They're purely interested in expanding their influence and they refuse to use their technology to help the people. This is all part of Veronica's companion quest, if you played the game you'd know that.

They don't care about expanding their influence in NV. They just want to contact HQ and send some back up since they lost connection with HQ for some time. The BOS is desperate in NV. They don't want to help anyone because they are fucking spooked by the NCR.
>They murder non-BOS if there's even a slight chance of them knowing about their presence in the Mojave.
The only reason why they do this is that they are hiding from the NCR. They are paranoid that if someone sees them they will call the NCR to come and finish the job. They basically see any waste lander as a glow in the dark NCR nigger. They don't want to risk it. Its all because they are desperate. You would know that if you play the game.

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Also to add on. They leader just fucking bailed on them so they don't have any sense of direction. Of course they will be paranoid.

>the BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest
Nigger they literally tried to fucking kill you in the first game.

90% of Yas Forums is bait at this point.

It's not just that they're portrayed negatively, it's that every other character in the game has a massive hate boner for them, as well. House is borderline psychotic about the Brotherhood: it's the only faction (IIRC) that you can't negotiate terms with him over. Why? Because he thinks they're, uh, "ridiculous". Hello? As opposed to the cyborg Walt Disney issuing orders by teleprompter from an abandoned casino? That entire quest was bizarre and stuck out like a sore thumb.

Do you expect all chapters to act alike?
Firstly remember who lead the chapter in NV - Elijah, who was a man who thought the ends justified the means and made a series of very very poor calculations. This influenced that chapter's philosophy both before and after their defeat.

Before their defeat they were cocky and ruthless, after their defeat the were more bitter and insular than ever before.

You can make an alliance with them in two out of four endings.

You're right, they aren't "the same" brotherhood you've encountered over the years but they are an interesting take and, more importantly, a logical and believable direction to take that particular chapter of the brotherhood in the Mojave.

>In 2, they're non existent because they got fucked up by the Enclave
I thought the BoS were mostly non-existent because the NCR pounded their ass

surely you can do better!

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bro what
the BoS blatantly gives you a task intended to kill you and are genuinely surprised and amazed when you actually come back with what they asked for
the BoS was always about self-preservation. It wasn't until FO:BoS and FO3 that they turn into a shitty saturday morning cartoon faction

You could really say the same about FO3's Brotherhood which IMO did Chapter splits in a more interesting way.

That was after the events of 2. Before NV.

Nah, they didn't have disputes with NCR until New Vegas, that user is wrong since BoS let themselves get comfortable because they thought there was nothing left in the wasteland that could pose enough of a threat after the super mutants were dealt with.

>the truth is that the BOS were never this villainous until NV

First interaction you have with the BOS in the original Fallout constitutes of them tricking you into visiting a radiation filled hole so that you can die in it. Play the original games.

factions change over the course of 120 years

what a shocker

bos good faction, mutant bad
shoot shoot buy dlc

Nuh-uh.

Why is it ok when the faction changes so much in NV but not 3?

3 was a change for the worse the pretty much shat all over the Fallout 1 BoS turning them into generic white knights

>Up until FO:NV, the BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest.
Are you out of your fucking mind?
>They were never portrayed as malicious or even having a negative effect on the wasteland.
What the fuck? The people who sent you out to get killed aren't malicious?
>And we're told by the developers that this was how they always were before Fallout 3?
Yes.

3fags are the absolute fucking worst.

the big problem i have with this shit is that they haven't bothered with coming up with their own intresting stuff and just pulled the enclave and bos out of the ass. Would be more fun if there was something different on the other side of the fucking country

>and it isn't even that evil by wasteland standards.
>callously sending people who just want to join up into a ruin filled with rads is just normal behavior lol
right

Because 3 is literally just a ripoff of Tactics

>For whatever reason
Their circumstances are completely different in NV you dumb fuck. Why doesn't your brain work right?
>Why they're even in the game at all save for the aforementioned PC wank I honestly can't say.
Because there's a fuckton of incredibly valuable technology in the mojave. Remember hoover dam? Remember helios 1? Remember how many fucking vaults there are in the vegas area? Christ there's even an army of robots under fortification hill that the brotherhood would shit themselves over if they knew it existed.

>They murder non-BOS if there's even a slight chance of them knowing about their presence in the Mojave.
They don't murder you. They also don't like it if you murder an NCR ranger that's in a bunker nearby. This statement isn't even speculation, it's just wrong.

>BoSbabies get so BTFO'd by Fallout: New Vegas that they need to play fucking Bethesda Fallout games to fulfill their shitty tincan fantasies
LMAO

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>tell the Ranger the BoS is there
>they try to kill you both

They don't like it because they're afraid it will lead to the NCR coming to look for them. They also do try to murder you, they force you to wear an explosive collar and do their bidding

>no monster, no vault

Because it's a flip to a completely opposing ideology without a good enough reason. Some wastelanders having a hard life in DC should mean nothing to a group of people who ignore the suffering of other people in their home regions.

FO:NV brought in large parts of Project Van Buren as background fluff, one of those things was the NCR vs BoS war. Originally Van Buren was going to retcon FO2 to having Jeremy Maxson be the high elder at the time, a militant who wanted to bring the BoS back into power and would go to war with the NCR before getting blown the fuck out. Problem is FO3 happened and Arthur Maxson became the only survivor of the Maxson line and so Jeremy and all of the Van Buren set up was cut but the NCR/BOS war still happened without a whole lot of set up with how the conflict initially started other than "differences in vision".

Unless you bum rush Lost Hills and the Glow, the Glow gets mentioned several times in the Hub/Boneyard as a place known to wastelanders as a don't fucking go zone. Also the nameless guard next to Cabot spells out the "Ancient Order" quest is a "fuck off we are too busy for you" the leadership hands out with no expectation for people to even go there and tries to dissuade you from going after a fair warning. Also their previous high elder died from fighting raiders with poisoned bows who only posed a threat to the local communities and not themselves, and their patrols in the wastes will even escort you to their base if you ask and the only thing they steal is by proxy from the player in 2 with the Vertibird plans.

>Up until FO:NV, the BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest
>sends you away to die the first time you encounter them
begone shill

>BOS were a heroic faction that always helped the protagonist on their quest
They've always been greedy tech fetishists that want to keep all the good pre war tech for themselves.

>without a whole lot of set up with how the conflict initially started
Tactics is canon until it is directly contradicted. And Tactics says the moderates and the hardliners in the BoS had a dispute that led to the moderates going on an ill fated mission to the Midwest chasing the Master's Army, leaving California with assholes like Elijah

Yeah, you did the complete opposite of what they asked. Of course they killed you.
>They don't like it because they're afraid it will lead to the NCR coming to look for them.
Yes, that's why I brought it up. Try to keep up.
>They also do try to murder you, they force you to wear an explosive collar and do their bidding
In what fucking universe is a threat the same thing as literally murder? You call it murder and literally admit it's not murder in the same fucking sentence. What the hell is wrong with you?

They killed you because you alerted the outside world to their presence. You later find out the only reason the Ranger, and by extension you, weren't killed on the spot is because the current Elder is so fucking scared of NCR that he honestly believed a single Ranger going missing would bring the army down on his head

Being saved by circumstance isn't a mark in their favour

Seems like a good way to see if someone deserves nuclear powered armor. Are you suggesting the BoS should just accept any tribal or raider that requests to join? Fuck it, why stop there? They should add a quota for women, mutants and disabled people. It's the 22th century folks!

No, but it means the assertion ">They murder non-BOS if there's even a slight chance of them knowing about their presence in the Mojave." Isn't fucking true whatsoever. If that isn't enough for you even though it should be then how about this: find me one instance of proof that the brotherhood killed someone unrelated to the NCR because there was a chance they could find hidden valley. Post the wiki link here.

>Seems like a good way to see if someone deserves nuclear powered armor.
Seeing if someone randomly survives a humongous amount of rads is a good way to see if they're worthy? How does that follow at all?
>Are you suggesting the BoS should just accept any tribal or raider that requests to join?
Nope, stop strawmanning.

>How the hell did you get in here? Normally, I would have already shot you, but I'm under orders to bring you to the Elder.
>Outsiders aren't even allowed to know that our bunker's here, let alone come and go freely.
>Under normal circumstances, your story wouldn't make any difference. You'd be dead already.
fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ramos.txt

Hmmmmm. I guess the chief of security of the chapter admitting, several times, that outsiders get vaporized for even getting close and that only circumstance has saved your life doesn't count though. Don't worry, I won't hold it against you for replying to someone who isn't going to read you dying on your hill.

Your survival isn't determined by random chance. You have to inform yourself and obtain the necessary supplies to explore an underground facility and protect yourself against the radiation.
Also what strawman? That's the majority of the population in Fallout. Now since Fallout 2 there are some cities and more centralized governments but the setting has been frozen in time since then. In New Vegas people are still recycling 200 years old infrastructure and rubble. Even the Hoover Dam still works, it's retarded.

>Even the Hoover Dam still works
NCR had to fix it first and it's still not at peak capacity

Oh im perfectly fine with this, I got you upset enough to go to actually search the wiki. I also proved your earlier assertion was completely wrong. Don't think I didn't notice you decided to ignore the first part of my post because you were proven wrong. You can pretend that this somehow redeems your earlier retardation all you like, doesn't matter to me if that's all you need to feel vindicated.

The fuck are you talking about? Veronica's companion quest shows that if she quits the Brotherhood to go and work for the Followers of the Apocalypse they literally track her down and murder every single person she's going to live with. All for the sake of "protecting the BoS".

I'm not the faggot whose trying to force a lore thread about the BoS by trolling stupidity. But that is kind of exactly what ended up happening after fallout 1. Where the more " liberal " of the brotherhood troops were sent to go clean up the mutants while they fucked around doing R&D. The MWBoS ended up getting a fuck ton of tech and weapons from their endeavors and went full pragmatic again where Elder Lyons would head eastward more without them after the calculator aka " The Warrior " told him to fuck off with abusing the newly acquired tech.

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>Your survival isn't determined by random chance. You have to inform yourself and obtain the necessary supplies to explore an underground facility and protect yourself against the radiation.
How does that make you worthy of joining the brotherhood? What does surviving radiation have to do with the brotherhood? They send you there because they want you to just fuck off and die but their morals don't let them just gun you down.
>Also what strawman?
>>Are you suggesting the BoS should just accept any tribal or raider that requests to join?
You're implying that's what I was saying. That is strawman. Is it that you don't know what ad hominem is because you're new or are you just being retarded?