Or good combat systems? Seriously. I don't get it. I DON'T GET IT. Western devs have had more influence on the game industry for far longer than Japan, yet they act like they're making first year school projects while games like Dark Souls are masterclass and have half the budget. The problem with American devs and bosses came to a head with the Mass Effect franchise. "Why do you always need a boss???"... because it's the ultimate test of the games mechanics? Jesus christ, western devs.
Just played and beat Dark Souls for my first time. The exploration, bosses and weapon based combat all add up to something brilliant. Even despite how terrible Lost Izalith was, it didn't kill my enthusiasm for the game. Three out of the four of the final areas are at least still good, and even at its lowest moment, it was still worth playing more than any western game I've played as of late.
So to figure this out, I've included the four horsemen of the western dev apocalypse. The four games that are a reflection of modern western design as a whole. My post about them coming up
>Arkham Asylum and Arkham City The series so toxic for the industry I had to include it twice. I don't feel like Batman, despite claims as such, and it's bad enough you don't have real bosses, but instead you get gimmicky shit like the Poison Ivy fight or an entirely scripted sequence like Killer Croc, both of which were in Arkham Asylum, and as the series went along, this never improved. What's worse about the Arkham games is their influence. Arkham Asylum was popular, but Arkham City was a megahit. I couldn't even look at western made games for a couple years because they'd all be inevitably an Arkham clone.
>NuGod of War Back in the day, we used to raise our noses up at God of War 1 and 2 on the PS2. "Ho ho, square square! What simple games not as good as our precious Devil May Cries!" Now? They're absolute character action game classics, and nuGod of War is the ultimate backstab and casualization of a franchise that ultimately didn't deserve a fate this horrible.
>Half Life 2 The odd one out, sure, as FPSes are still the only genre western devs can deliver on, but HL2 represents a regression of the amazing combat system introduced by Duke Nukem 3D and its engine (which subpar games like Blood would use, and great ones like Shadow Warrior would take advantage of). The scripted sequences in HL1 were impressive for the time because there was nothing like them, truly, but by HL2, only a retard would be impressed by these 20 minute long cutscenes you can't skip.
stop posting this over and over again retard. In that pic you are comparing AAA western games to niche japanese games. Its not an equal comparison. I too can list niche western games which have combat far better than AAA jap games, such as dark messiah of might and magic, KCD, mount and blade, darksiders 3, etc.
Western games tend to excel at actually creating a living breathing world, environmental interactivity, player agency/choice, first person mechanics, etc. They also tend to have better narratives.
Except MAYBE God Hand, all 3 are Japanese triple AAA. There's nothing "niche" about them. Replace Demon Souls with Dark Souls 3 and it's still a hugely expensive sequelized franchise like something the west would do, but the difference is, Dark Souls isn't shit.
>such as dark messiah of might and magic, KCD, mount and blade, darksiders 3, etc.
Darksiders the series is dog shit. Especially parts of 2 and the entirety of 3. Dark Messiah's kick is too powerful even if it is fun to use. Mount & Blade combat is OKAY at best, and KCD had a budget of $30+ million or so. It's a great game, but it's not niche in anyway
Robert Turner
t. western dev
Samuel Adams
>Now? They're absolute character action game classics I've seen this thread many times but I've always wondered if you were baiting here. GoW games are decent enough but they were stale as fuck by the end of 3. At least 4 is a breath of fresh air in that regard. Even if its combat isn't perfect I'd say with some tweaks it could work. Removing the iceskating bullshit all the enemies/kratos do to hit each other would be a good start. >KCD had a budget of $30+ million or so AA at best. I guarantee cod, ass creed, death stranding, spider man, and whatever sony currently has cooking costs at least double that before marketing.
i was talking about the examples you listed, don't switch goal posts. Demon souls was niche when it came out, it was middle market shit. KCD, is niche. It was aimed at a niche audience, despite its budget. Mount and blade combat is great compared to jap AAA. Darksiders 3 is not great but it is still ok. How do you judge combat systems? I judge them based on how fun and challenging they are. Based on that the games i listed are perfectly fine. And lets not forget that west also has superior turn based combat, Xcom and DOS 2 has better combat than most jrps ive played. The games i listed stand up very well against jap AAA like pokemon, mario, zelda, MH, dragon quest, etc
Thomas Cook
>At least 4 is a breath of fresh air in that regard. Even if its combat isn't perfect I'd say with some tweaks it could work. Removing the iceskating bullshit all the enemies/kratos do to hit each other would be a good start.
Oh, you're one of those people.
Reminder a nuGOW fanboy posted this in a previous thread thinking it looked good.
I'd take any of the 5 God of War games that came out over NUGOW any day of the week, twice on Sunday
>>KCD had a budget of $30+ million or so >AA at best. I guarantee cod, ass creed, death stranding, spider man, and whatever sony currently has cooking costs at least double that before marketing.
Okay so by your logic the only AAA games from Japan that aren't niche are always bloated Square enix projects like FF15
>Mount and blade combat is great compared to jap AAA.
Mount & Blade's combat is just a complicated version of a musou game, and that's the nicest I can be about it.
It handles multiple enemies very well, but I'd rather play KCD.
Justin Richardson
FPS games, which the west excels at, don't lend themselves well to the concept of boss fights, a singular powerful enemy. Those games are at their best when you're fighting several different enemy types and juggling between weapons. A FPS boss fight, even in a game with otherwise great action, is usually reduced to either circlestrafing/backpedaling while using your most powerful weapon or a puzzle.
>HL1 had voice acting and lipsync (as primitive as it was). Not even Perfect Dark had lipsync. Half Life didn't invent voice acting in video games. The impressive part of both Goldeneye and Half-Life is the fact that there was in-engine storytelling, not that it was voiced.
Jason Hall
ultimately this is completely subjective. You can't objectively prove that one game has better combat, it depends on your tastes
Josiah Williams
>the fact that there was in-engine storytelling,
Oh look, Japan innovating games before the west could do it
Repeat. Arkham games do not require the player to pay attention to HOW they counter, just that they counter. Parrying in Dark Souls is legitimately tough, even requiring being hit to understand the exact timing. Arkham games also require 0 positioning - there is no boss or even enemy like Ornstein and Smough in any of the western games on the left
Jedi Outcast/Academy has breddy gud melee combat and fights against the lightsaber-wielding AI can be challenging and fun if you don't cheese it with force speed.
You should use Jedi: Fallen Order which came out in 2019, the same year as instant classics as DMCV, RE2 remake, Sekiro and Code Vein - oh wait that games combat is dog shit.
Jose Gomez
code vein isn't that great, just a copy paste of souls formula. Several western games have done that. RE2 is just 3rd person shooting, nothing deserving of being called a classic. At this pint you sound like a fanboy. Do you understand what classic means?
Lucas Martin
>code vein isn't that great, just a copy paste of souls formula.
Popularity and ratings don't mean jack shit. Plenty of games have good popularity and ratings, yet shit combat. Most jap games that come out are not innovative.
Chase Anderson
and ion fury was better than all those games combined who would've thought West: 1 Nips: 0
Landon Allen
Dark souls games doesn't have deep or even good combat.
Grayson Williams
sorry i mean classics
Jeremiah Torres
>Fuck off retard.
Xavier Wilson
>Neck yoyrself coomer weeb retard.
Jason Gray
Learn when to meme arrow newfag. Now back to the tranny discord.
Thomas Ward
>FPSes are still the only genre western devs can deliver on They are better at creating strategy, RPG, simulation and stealth games than the Japanese.
Thomas Campbell
Basado
Brayden Lee
>keeps using the same bait thread
sad desu
Chase James
*farts*
Thomas Scott
Cringe
Anthony Parker
JUST
John Green
what kind of low iq sub-human shilling these gook insectoid games?
Great game that was so far better then any othwe entry in the franchise before it
Jacob Phillips
I mean I said I liked it not that it was very challenging I like 3d metroidvania stuff. I liked the path through the asylum and how the rooms became different challenges with different enemy placement The combat is like such a small fucking part of the game. Its like judging God Hand on the fucking level design.
Nathaniel Carter
Ever stop to think that if you winning at this game and being retarded enough to repost this thread time and time again on Yas Forums might mean you're the outlier? You're clearly not normal and not the target audience of the game
Jacob Murphy
>I like 3d metroidvania stuff. I liked the path through the asylum and how the rooms became different challenges with different enemy placement
Literally sounds like Dark Souls, but Dark Souls is actually good unlike the Arkham games
>Its like judging God Hand on the fucking level design.
Well I can judge Arkham based on Ninja Gaiden and NGB has some of the best levels in gaming along with a great combat system
Arkham games have nothing. No good bosses. No good enemies. Easy combat and trivial stealth. They're really the worst of all worlds.
I'm sure some grandpa never beat the Arkham games - but I honestly think a braindead chimp could beat these games with no problems. (As long as they got a treat for everytime they countered or something)
I mean I like braindead button mashing, but these games are just pathetic.
>Literally sounds like Dark Souls, but Dark Souls is actually good unlike the Arkham games I mean I like souls games more but I think the same is true for them You have to be completely retarded to not be capable of beating them Hell in Souls games you have the option of grinding and overleveling So souls is actually even easier and someone who is retarded enough to not be capable of beating Arkham might be able to beat souls
But why are you even thinking on that level? Why are you judging games based on if retards can beat them? Do I have to hate souls now because retards can beat it? The Arkham games have plenty of stuff well done Just not challenge. The only thing you care about.
Nathan Wood
>>Great game that was so far better then any othwe entry in the franchise before it
>I wouldn't even consider it for Dark Souls. I did it. Wasn't hard.
I just don't get your angle. You are taking one small part of the gesamtkunstwerk of a game and saying it has to be judged on this God Hand is one of my favorite games of all time but if I would do that with the level design or so many things it does wrong it would be retarded.
Achievement stats aren't about difficulty. They are also about the willingness to complete the game. A shitty game would also have less achievement stats for being completed.
Isaac Campbell
>The Arkham games have plenty of stuff well done
Yeah like the voice acting and...
And...
Uh...
Luis Perez
So name one thing the Arkham games do better than any other game
Literally its biggest strength that mattered to anyone was having the BTAS VAs, and that's not gameplay related at all
Camden Ortiz
>So name one thing the Arkham games do better than any other game I don't think I can do that for any of my favorite games including God Hand
Again you are incapable of seeing the game as a whole and you constantly have to separate every little part of it like an OCD autist. There is no one thing souls does better than any other game.
Jackson Torres
Bayonetta had a really overcomplicated and horrible plot, and the combat was fair but really just another boring hack n slash. The character design was a bit messy, too. You can tell the dev thought the MC was sexy as fuck but really it comes off like Kill La Kill where overdone fanservice is less attractive than teasing designs with a little restraint.
Japan loves shitty cliche demon and angel conflicts. It permeates everything from SMT and bayonetta to panty & stocking or devilman. The west does it too with Dante's Inferno. Some of these things are individually good but demons are gay. They're overdone.
Ryder Morales
>There is no one thing souls does better than any other game.
Dark Souls does non-intrusive multiplayer amazingly
