I don't get it

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Literally WHO? I'm sure your quip was hilarious to all the rogue-like autists.

A rogue-lite is a rogue-like with good combat.

yes

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>I have to share a board with retards like this.

6/10 bait

slightly unrelated but is pokemon mystery dungeon a roguelike? It is basically only lacks permadeath.

Rogue-likes share multiple mechanics with rogue: Turn Based movement, Non-modal design, High amounts of interaction with the level, etc.

Rogue-lites on the other hand, mainly take procedural generation and a weakened form of perma-death, and apply them to games of other genres, usually action games.

Imo this is like metroidvania tag, where it isn't really accurate but it's already been popularized so there is little point in getting into autistic arguments over it

Rogue-like: exactly like the game Rogue in the ways I want it to be
Rogue-lite: only like the game Rogue in some of the ways I want it to be.

>It is basically only lacks permadeath.
If you look at Japanese roguelikes, that's a common theme among them.
Being a roguelike is more akin to being on a scale, I'd say only missing one or at most two high value factor(s) (see below) shouldn't disqualify a game from its "roguelike" title.
roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation
But then again, some HVFs seem to be more important than others. Modality is arguably much less of a factor than whether a roguelike is TB or RT.

they come from Shiren The Wanderer games so yes

>they come from Shiren The Wanderer games
You mean Mystery Dungeon games?

The only significant feature of a "roguelike" game is that dying/failure makes you retry and scrambles/randomizes the thing that you were trying; in this way, each attempt is unique, and you cannot improve by memorization. That's the one thing common to every game anyone has ever called a "roguelike", that's what the term actually means in common use.

Every other aspect of the "definition" is just fart-huffing hipster faggots who want you to be super aware of how they liked some fucking ASCII game "before it was cool" and so insist that only games which emulate other nonessential aspects of its particular gameplay experience "count".

go figure, the first one was the Torneko one
I always imagined shiren was first

>bejewelled is a roguelike

>EVERYTHING HAS TO HAVE A LABEL
>EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CATEGORIZED
>I CANNOT ENJOY VIDEO GAMES IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT LABELS
>I EVEN LABEL MYSELF I HAVE 100 LABELS DESCRIBING EVERY ASPECT OF MY PERSONALITY LIKE I'M A FUCKING DATABASE ENTRY
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>(I HAVE A LABEL FOR THE ABOVE LINE TOO)

There's actually a whole lot that could be said in defense of that claim, but I'll take the L there and amend my definition to only include non-abstract games where you control a player character.

If you really get down to it, roguelikes are basically the application of abstract arcade gameplay principles (tetris, bejeweled, etc) to rpg (and later, action/platformer/adventure) games.

It's like calling LoL an RPG because you level up, or calling XCOM a Third Person Shooter because you use guns. Why one aspect of rouge that wasn't even the most important part getting used in your game is enough to declare your game a rougelike when everyone can see through the above retardation is beyond me though.

There are couple of things that are wrong in this post, but just to save time for now since I am making dinner soon: Genres exist to find games of the same kind. Wanting broader definitions is exactly going against that. The term "roguelite" is not a dergatory term, it helps roguelike autists stay away from games they don't like, and assists rogueliteCHADS filter games designed for autists.
This is the system people on both camps have relied on before the term "traditional roguelike" became popular.

All mystery dungeon games are genuine roguelikes yes.

So... any good roguelites lately? Been playing Downwell lately and it's really fun, but I need something with "deeper" mechanics just to play on the side.

Yes, let's just not have any organization in our lives.

Calm down user.
The Roguelike debate only exists because Roguelikes are so obscure to begin with. Games like Dead Cells will easily overshadow games like Caves of Qud or ADOM, so for people who prefer the latter type of games, a distinction is necessary. Without the distinction, the older style of roguelikes quickly and easily disappear, covered in a piles of sidescrollers and first person shooters.

no roguelike is a turn-based rpg with permadeath. And roguelite is a game of any genre that has permadeath or semi-permadeath(you carry something over to a next playthrough)

And you have random generation part to levels.(forgot about that part)

>Rogue Like
Acii graphics, turn based movement with zero real time elements. Dungeon crawlers. Lots for fucking randomness. Always has permadeath.
>Rogue Lite
Actual graphics, Possible real time mixed with turned based, lots of randomness. Almost always has permadeath.

Both are fine, it depends on the game's content. Examples

Roguelike - Caves of Qud
Roguelite - FTL

Is Crypt of the Necrodancer turn-based?

It is a rythmgame

I don't know the game but looking at it I would say no. The essential of turn based is that you can take your time to think through your actions and strategy. Rythm is more skill than strategy.

There is the bard who turns the game into an actual rougelike, but for the other characters you are correct.

not even close m8

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Elona

>elona
>roguelite
>lately
really user

I like both but this user is correct

newfriends will think this is the actual UI and not a collage

"Roguewhatever" is a stupid term that tells you very little information because theres no concrete standard. It's not even a genre itself, it's a modifier that can be appended to an existing genre in order to give it a run-by-run structure similar to quarter pumpers at the arcade.
Here's a short list of things that can be different between them in no particular order
>procedural generation
>handmade set pieces that are jigsawed together
>predesigned stages with random population of key game pieces
>meta progression
>unlock meta progression
>previous-run carryover
>the actual game genre that defines gameplay holy shit
Hair splitting wont do shit about how muddy and unclear the terminology is. You could actually call Rogue a "ascii dungeon crawler with roguelike elements" and youd be 100% on the money without people putting it into the same mental category as binding of isaac, slay the spire, risk of rain, spelunky, or nuclear throne.
The term needs to die and be replaced with something that actually says something instead of pointing at a specific game and having people get into semantic arguments over which elements are most important

Considering Rogue was released 40 years ago, when did this roguelike vs rogue-lite thing start? When did roguelike start being appropriated to mean any procedurally-generated game with permadeath?

>You could actually call Rogue a "ascii dungeon crawler with roguelike elements"

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Binding of Isaac basically started the whole indie roguelite trend

You laugh now but its painful to know that it is true.
If I want to talk about games that are like rogue, it's more consistent to narrow the genre to grid based dungeon crawlers first.

Holy shit, what a blast of nostalgia. Are the latest versions of nu-ADOM any good? I played a lot of 1.1.1 but had mixed feelings about the reboot (to be fair I only skimmed it a bit)

They're clearly action-adventure games stop this taxonomy nonsense.

you can call a camel a horse with a hump but it doesn't make camels into horses.

What are some modern roguelikes that push the definition of roguelike without feeling "lite"?

They are. People who autistically get mad about this and don't bat an eye at the other retarded genre labels we have (such as Adventure or Action) are hilarious

Thats because action and adventure aren't genres that anyone but retard journalists use.

Caves of Qud
Elona
CDDA
Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode

Unlike roguelites, they don't water down any roguelike mechanics, so they aren't lite. However unlike roguelikes, they're not strict dungeon crawlers, they only use faithful roguelike mechanics as the core gameplay and usually have a ton of other things going on beyond that.

There is literally nothing wrong with specific genres.

>hey man check out this first person shooter it’s really fun
>... this is space invaders dude
>OH GEEZ HERE COMES THE STINKY AUTIST WHO HATES FUN COME ON DUDE WORDS CHANGE MEANING OVER TIME I MEAN YOU STILL SHOOT SO ITS STILL A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER ALSO THERES ONLY ONE PERSON IN THE GAME THE ENEMIES ARE ALL ALIENS SO YEAH ITS A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH NOBODY EVEN PLAYS YOUR REAL FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS

No you can't because they aren't even similar aside from having 4 legs. I want them to just be called 4 legged transport animals and you can figure out subcategories for your specific application. For some that's horse, others camel, others donkey.
Pedantry aside, the term 'roguelike' had been coopted and as far as the public is concerned no longer means what it says it is. Semantic bullshit needs to stop and it wont stop unless the term is dead and buried.

This is a rogue lite. A ball crushing adventure for true sadists. Almost no one had managed to finish this game on impossible mode as its basically a slow death from the start.

What you posted is some shit rhythm game that no one even played because they were too busy jerking off over the "amazing" generic fake 8 bit ost

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>yes
>yes
>no one said that
>good for you
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>autism?

>Posts an actual roguelike and calls it roguelite
>Thinks Necrodancer is bad because people like its soundtrack
>Ignores that Necrodancer has its own "impossible mode" almost noone has ever beaten a full run of

Roguelike roguelite roguedark rogueday roguenite roguehard roguesoft roguesimilar rogueopposite rogueparrallel roguediagonal