Student debt should NEVER be cancelled. Free college should NEVER be a thing.
In Germany (and Western Europe) most people cant afford America style houses, most live in rented apartments or have huge mortgages on said commieblocks. Not only this, our wages are very low; for any job you can get in the US our equivalent wage will be 30-150% off (30% for low skill, 150% for high skill like doctors and engineers). On top of this we pay 30-40% of our income in social insurance + tax.
This leads to us all being poor and having to borrow money to finance basic things: like cars; many Germans lease and don't buy cars, same for other possessions. This leads to countries like Denmark having 300% household debt to income (In the US its like 60%). But living standards are overall worse.
By forgiving student loans and giving gibsmedats to useless people, you end up punishing the rest of society. It makes normal logical sense as to why you shouldn't do it: but this is a blackpill on why.
You realize you cocksacka that the reason you have relatively low salary is due to globalization of workforce?
Levi Price
relative to the US all Europeans are poor read the OECD source on household income etc in both median and average numbers
We are richer than even more socialist outright marxist or post marxist shitholes like Africa, Latin America and Eastern Europe
But we are poorer and are going to be poorer than countries that are very free market like the 4 Asian Tigers, GCC countries like Qatar (0% income tax) the USA and probably China in the future.
That doesn't explain why our average per capita incomes are very low as well; a lot of manufacturing is still via Germany. per capita Nominal GDP of Germany is 45k USD in the US its 65k USD, literally 2/3 of Americans, despite the US being literally 50% ethnics.
So the whites in the US live at least double as well as Germans.
Mason Scott
Dual citizen here (Euro and American). Student debt should be cancelled. It's the modern equivalent of slavery. Ancient Greeks forgave the debt of their working class to give them a second chance. I don't see why we can't do the same.
Cameron Garcia
I 100% agree, but other idiots think its great to be in school for 20 years and have unpayable debt
Nathaniel Adams
they just want their poverty to be thrust upon others
you didn't provide a SINGLE ARGUMENT debunking me, instead you just stated your emotional opinion like a typical leftist by citing some ancient greek city state
you absolute autist; the ancient greeks literally faded into oblivion cause they had a dysfunctional military and economic situation which allowed their entire population to be sold into slavery (Thebes, Sparta etc).
Imagine thinking of a ancient shithole whose financail policies and lack of debt servicing end up enslaving their children for generations under poverty is a model to follow. I mean even modern greece is doing the same thing KEK
Elijah Hall
It shouldn't be canceled. However, in the USA we actually have the implied right to bankruptcy. The management of bankruptcy laws is an enumerated power of the federal govt in the USA constitution. Everything wrong with universities and student loans is because of the fact that this specific form of loan has been made to be in contradiction to the implied right of bankruptcy.
Given this, student loans should retroactively be allowed to be dissolved through bankruptcy. In this, each case should be given specific attention with regard to the behavior and use of the universities and banks involved. If enough evidence is gathered for an FTC case against their misbehavior (pro tip: they'll find something for sure) then this would be an additional positive side effect of allowing citizens to discharge their debt. Additionally, bankruptcy is a fair compromise for these college graduates to be free of the jewish shackles.
People like me who avoided school because we knew it was a scam and the loans would be too high shouldn't be punished with further govt expense to cover the costs of student stupidity. You make financial mistakes, you have a right to discharge your debt and have a new start, but you don't get to offload the cost of your mistakes onto others who didn't make the same mistakes. Thus, bankruptcy is a fair and established method by which to help people restart, without burdening the govt or taxpayers with the financial mistakes of the minority.
Aiden Richardson
I'm sorry but you can't just look at the raw amount of money.
Living standards are better than in America in many euro countries
Carson Hughes
you want to know who is responsible for student crisis? joe biden
Blake Lopez
Student debt shouldn't be cancelled, I always believed that this is a very weak and populist approach to a much deeper problem, the problem that the education system is outdated and mass-educating the population just doesn't work. Every nation strives towards 100% literacy and higher education but that simply isn't supposed to happen. We cannot function as a society that way because there can never be an education system that provides such a quantity without significantly sacrificing the quality. This is the universal rule of the universe.
Well, this is precisely what the majority of student debts are: an education significantly reduced in quality, to the point that it's not even possible to pay for your degree through it, causing many people to not be able to pay for their degrees for no other reason but because they either went into fields that shouldn't exist, at least not under the curriculum of a standard degree (perhaps a small one year course costing a few thousand instead), or because they went into a saturated field with that field being saturated thanks to the relaxed entry level for the specialization. All of this is an issue of state-mandated quantity and cannot happen if only the elitist top universities survive, as was in the last two centuries where student debt was basically non-existent.
Julian Stewart
A lot of people believe this here, but it's actually untrue. I grew up in both Germany and the US and moved back here. Living standards are exponentially better in the US. A lot of things that are "better" in Europe than the US would only benefit the bottom 25% of Americans on the income scale while harming the top 75%. Guess who the bottom "25%" living in dem projects be?
Yep. Them and the mexicans/children of illegals who have minimal assets. Anyone with net assets over $50k will be hurt by this (median btw means middle, not average which is even higher for whites cause richer whites are usually millionaires).
Free University, Public Transport etc would only benefit blacks and mexicans in inner cities while harming suburban whites and asians. Free healthcare is a complicated issue, but again most whites are employed or old so they're already covered. Blacks? They had a 12% unemployment BEFORE coronavirus. Guess where they'd get their free healthcare now?
I agree so just allow people to declare bankruptcy on student loans. They want it to be forgiven cause they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to own a house and a car without the debt, bankruptcy would force them to hand over their assets.
Student debt in the USA is basically legalized usury. Loans are subject to very high interest rates despite its implied guarantee because you can’t even declare bankruptcy on it. All debt is treated the same even though it’s probably possible to discriminate between different degrees (humanities prolly have the highest default rates). Also universities charge astronomical tuition fees because they don’t do spending reviews quite often and usually dump money without any capital budgeting. I think burgers should do a serious reform in this system that clearly works against the future generations.
Jayden Myers
Lot to read in this thread so I wanted to ask 1. Why are wages stagnant across the West? It's not just one country. 2. What do you think about free college for the few with exceptionally high standards? Debt is a huge problem, but the bigger one is faggots wasting gov't money on English and Gender Studies degrees. Far too many go to college for no reason and now a degree is meaningless.
Camden Jackson
House hold data, is not very reliable because some nations have much more households per 100,000 inhabitants, dragging the household wealth down. Therefor it is better to look at National wealth and divide it by the population.
But yeah Europeans are still much less wealthy than Americans on average.
Leo Parker
what I don't understand is that you give free college to foreigners and most of them will leave Germany to work or to finish their masters/PhD elsewhere. Unfortunately, most of them come here
Bentley Lopez
>Just beggining to figure out that economics is psuedo science
Easton James
If you cut the bloat, bureaucracy, parasitism and cargo culting, education could be much cheaper, quicker, more accessible, coherent and continuous.
Christopher Adams
Dumb people should not study in universities in the first place
James King
Have you taken a vacation in the last 10 years?
Do you have multiple chronic pains becuse you cant afford a doctor?
Cooper Green
>t. Rural retard voting for Trump By smart city people voting for Biden
Jordan Perez
why not cheap college? Boomers used to go to college for pennies on the dollar, then why can't we? and no, not just cuz of muh inflation. Maybe it would stop inflating if faggots would stop making this shit mandatory!
Jaxon Ward
They need to get government backed loans out of the equation. Just like healthcare it was perfectly affordable until normies had to compete with the bottomless pockets of the government, now colleges don't charge based on value of the education but entirely on what they know the maximum loan that the average student can get approved for.
Easton Bell
I'm from Austria, only lived in the US for a few years now. Sure, once you pass a certain income threshold, life's great here. You will most likely never pass the equivalent of ~$70k annual salary in Germany, that's even rough for a tech job. HOWEVER If you fall below this magical threshold in the US, you are utterly and violently buttfucked in so many ways it's not funny anymore. No access to medicine and medical services, shitty apartments and shit food in shitty neighborhoods. The dynamic range of salaries and quality of life is much small in Germany, meaning that while you won't make big leaps, you also won't drop that far down. Someone who's scraping by in Germany is doing much better than the working poor in the US.
Also, the other thing is, forgiving loans would mean that *real* money will be dumped into the economy because people would start renting nicer places, put down money for a mortgage etc.
Evan Wood
>That doesn't explain why our average per capita incomes are very low as well; We work less, we have destroyed more wealth during WWI and WWII, and we did not set the world up after WWII to serve our interest.
OECD does that, we are looking at household debt to household income ratio so it doesn't even matter; household sizes in the US and Europe are actually near identical
yes of course, cause they know that a college degree here in germany is useless; you get a top software degree? your salary will be 45k USD a year; in the US, same software degree will get you 120k USD a year.
wages in the US have actually been rising on net. in europe wages actually have trailed inflation lol; its just that in the US the middle class will see a 30% hike, the rich a 150% hike and the poor a 5% hike, but in Europe everyone will see an "equal" 0% hike so we are satisfied with this retarded equality
if you do a good degree you'd likely pay off the debt, the debt should just allow you to declare bankruptcy as user above said which would solve this problem, and the loan shouldn't be guaranteed just for any major it should be privatized or turned into an income sharing agreement
Yes this is a problem, because the US government guarantees loans retardedly, but its not as big a problem as europoor system forcing everyone to pay for other peoples shit via taxes, thus making us poorer in the long run (wages in italy are legit 1/4 the wage in new york mfw).
Joseph Sullivan
>OECD does that, we are looking at household debt to household income ratio so it doesn't even matter; household sizes in the US and Europe are actually near identical Ok but it is good to not just compare household wealth if you want to see who is better off on average.
Cameron Scott
USA should richer than Germany because we have more resources, yet we still manage to fuck it up because of the retarded liberal policies you advocate for. Yeah, let's structure our economy around people needing to go to college and pretend that it is not a problem when college becomes fucking astronomically expensive. Fuck you boomer. Low IQ moron who isn't capable of thinking structurally. >Hur dur, if that guy did it well and got rich, necessarily everyone else can if they are smart right? Hur dur
Lucas Green
even per hour the US is literally on par with norway which produces as much oil per capita as Saudi arabia lmfao
home ownership rate in the US is HIGHER than in the US and Americans OWN houses while Euros do not. We all rent. I think you live in a high cost of living area of the US; the number of people earning more than 50k in US urban areas tends to be over 70% of the population in most agglomerations so again
yep a market based system like singapore would work
Most Americans are insured and employed or covered through medicare, family plans or even the poor households by medicaid
I know the US healthcare system sucks, I'm just pointing out every other aspect of the welfare state in europe is horrible; US medical prices are actually inflated due to medicaid not the private market.
agreed
it is not a pseudoscience, that is just what stupid people tell themselves when they want to deny reality
Jeremiah Allen
I wanna hug her and kiss her ;/
Landon Rodriguez
Lenders need to be responsible too, so bankruptcy should be an option so pressures and incentives exist on both sides bringing balance.
William Ortiz
>Dumb people should just not do what is needed to get a job. Haha
Asher Nelson
I should have been placed in a mental institution for pursuing an arts degree.
Luke Taylor
im not advocating for that; the US actually has fewer resources than most of Europe
it is affected more by global oil prices than Europe is, for starters
Norway is an oil exporter which has as much oil as saudi arabia, but your democrats dont mention that cause then it'd debunk their idea of a successful leftist economy
Yeah I agree with you, I'm just pointing out the dumb perspective American leftists and fellow deluded europoors seem to have on how much better off americans are than here.
I grew up in a middle class household making $60k in the US. This was considered low in America, but we owned a house, multiple cars, and had a lot of shit (in Texas). I came back here (I went to "free uni" here). I ended up abandoning my green card in the process. I came back and saw that I'm making 33k here and renting a commieblock and saving no money, the same major in the US would have gotten me a comfy 90k USD a year job and i'd be paying off my debt in 2 years.
But one good thing is that Europe has like literally NO nonwhites compared to the US, even the whitest US cities are like 20% black and 20% mexican.
Grayson Rodriguez
Depends on the location but wages are actually pretty low in the south and “national contracts” are legit retarded because regions can’t adapt to the local cost of labor, thus you have a massive unemployment rate in the south.
