Their claims seems to return again and again to their translation of John 1:1 from Koine Greek.
The JW bible (The New World Translation) alters the traditional English translation of "And the Word was God" to "And the Word was a god", implying that the Word (Jesus) was some kind of created angelic being incarnated into a man.
The insertion of the indefinite article before 'god' is based, so they claim, on the absence of a definite article before 'god' in the Greek.
But many scholars claim that the JW argument is based on an undergraduate misunderstanding of the declension for the normative predicate (video explains it all).
So who is correct here? If the correct translation is that the Word is big 'g' God, then trinitarians are correct in maintaining that Jesus' divinity is equal to the Father's.
Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong on this and will burn in eternal hell because of it.
Ryan Thompson
Why are you trying to understand two equally stupid yet different takes on some retarded shit like the bible?
Nathaniel Walker
The founder was a freemason
Chase Jenkins
They use some weird translation and don't believe in the trinity. Claim to know archaic words perfectly, ect..Weirdos with a centralized Church. Go figure.
Adam Gomez
It's a cult, so you shouldn't take anything they say seriously.
James Hernandez
They also are told not to vote. And when they do its almost always leftist.
Isaac Lewis
a. The Shema - Deuteronomy 6:4 Shema Israel Yaweh Elohanu Yahwe Echad - Hear of Israel Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is One. Yahweh is also known as the tertragrammoton - in English we slaughter is as Jehova (germanic) In English translations Yahweh is written as LORD, with ord as a smaller font size. This is where the orignial texts have Yahweh. If you see Lord GOD, that is Adonai Yahweh, LORD God is Yahweh Elohim. Our modern Bible translations hide the term because the Jews would not use the divine name. Mormons believe Elohim is God the Father, and Jehova is Jesus the Son. In DEUT 6:4 - Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is One...but in Deut 4:35 To you it was shown that you might know that Yahweh he is Elohim, there is no other besides him...this kills the Mormon b. Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses, says the Lord, and my servant whom I have taken for myself: so that you may see and have faith in me, and that it may be clear to you that I am he; before me there was no God formed, and there will not be after me." Mormons hate this as well - they believe they can be a God, there are many Gods, etc. JW's take their names from this verse. The great irony is that this verse teaches the deity of Christ. Jesus uses these very words in John 13:19 of himself. A self identification of the Lord Jesus of himself as Jehova.
Andrew Smith
c. Isaiah 40-48 has repeated references to monotheism. Isaiah 45: "I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God but me: I will make you ready for war, though you had no knowledge of me: 6 So that they may see from the east and from the west that there is no God but me: I am the Lord, and there is no other." d. Jeremiah 10:10 "But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God and an eternal king: when he is angry, the earth is shaking with fear, and the nations give way before his wrath. 11 This is what you are to say to them: The gods who have not made the heavens and the earth will be cut off from the earth and from under the heavens." verse 11 actually is in Aramaic, the language of the Babylonians. God's of the peoples come out of creation, a will therefore end with it. 2. The 3 divine persons The Bible clearly and consistently differentiates between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that the Father has eternally existed as a divine person, and that the Son has eternally existed as a divine person, and that the Spirit also has eternally existed as a divine person. a. John 1:1-3 From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God. This Word was from the first in relation with God. All things came into existence through him, and without him nothing was. In the beginning was the word - refers to timeless existence (the Greek was "ein"), not a point in time when the Word came into existence. The word is eternal. The word is WITH God (Greek pros - face to face with God)
James Howard
NO MORE RELIGION THREADS
FUCKING D&C SHILLS
Liam Ortiz
But Yas Forums only has one religion, christianity. So what are you talking about?
Alexander Smith
It's plainly stated in either translation either way. And the Word was God -- pattern recognition -- Iesous Christos was the Living Word become flesh. Thus the Word is Iesous Christos. Thus He was God at that time. Further pattern recognition: "I and my Father are one." The original Morning Star was Lucifer, which is redundant, but he was the first angel, and God's most favorite angel, who rebelled. When he rebelled he sullied the title of the Morning Star, so what then did God do? He replaced the important position of the Morning Star with an aspect of Himself, so that the important position would never ever be sullied again. Yes, Jesus Christ, Iesous Christos is God. He and the Father are one.
“I [Jesus] ascend untomy Father,and your Father, and tomy God,and your God.”—John 20:17.
“To us there is butone God,the Father.”—1Corinthians 8:6.
There is one God.
Jaxon Wilson
>God >God >God >God You're actually making a mistake here. You are misappropriating the name of God and giving it to the Jew-god Yahweh. Godan ( God ) is the chief god among many others in the polytheistic Germanic pantheon. God is not a title, it is the Lombardic name of Godan, or more commonly, Wodan. God is named after the Germanic god Wodan ( ᚹᛟᛞᚨᚾ ) and the Norse allfather of the gods, Oðinn. There are other examples of the g
Indeed, that is the interesting thing. He is God, but He compartmentalizes Himself so that the Son serves as the only Way to the Father.
Austin Nguyen
JWs are people who built an entire cult around one word. But they generally aren’t dangerous.
Wyatt Lewis
>One word in the Bible you believe in is different >Your going to hell This is why nobody in first world countries takes Christians seriously anymore
Xavier Nelson
>There is one God. Absolutely. One God- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The trinity isn't 3 gods, it's One God.
Ayden Green
Where does the Bible say that? Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandmentsis, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" No, see my reply above.
William Rivera
He is Divine. Divine isn't a name though. God however is a name, the name of Godan/Wodan who is the head of a Pan(theon) The head of a Pan(theon) would be Zeus. This would be closer with the term El used in Hebrew, but El was the angelic being who Jacob wrestled with. He was an angel and John 1:18 says no man has seen Theon at any time. So El was not Theon. Therefore "God" is an inaccurate term to use to describe Theon Ton Theon = The Divine Not "God" The Divine is not the same being as Logos just because Logos is also Divine. No man has seen Theon. But they saw El who is the Word. He is the Word because he is the one who has explained The Divine. He is the one the entire time in the Hebrew Scriptures explaining him. But they are not the same person. They are in unity in the same way the Church is in unity with both of them. Through the Holy Spirit. But the Church is not God, neither is the Church The Divine. Having the Holy Spirit makes the Church a temple. Therefore bringing them in unity in the same way the Son is in unity with the Father.
Jason Thompson
Are you seriously asking about whether the bible has a part where Iesous Christos says that He is the only Way to the Father? John 14:6
Watch this video. John 1:1 only makes sense if you understand the context of second Temple Judaism and it’s belief in the Two Powers in Heaven. You can learn this context from the Targums. This video is a crash course on this exact topic and shows that John wasn’t inventing anything new, but was taking the next logical leap. JWs do what a lot of others do: they read a text without really understanding anything about the beliefs of the people who wrote it. They transpose 21st century understanding on 1st century people. Jesus is absolutely Divine. Watch the video and John 1 will make perfect sense afterward.
Justin Green
They're wrong. A buddy of mine explained it to me, who speaks Koine Greek and Biblical Hebrew. Short answer is we can tell from something-or-other that it's not "a god", but it's "God".
Religion threads are the most interesting thing on Yas Forums. Face it.
Isaiah Reed
>but El was the angelic being who Jacob wrestled with Wut? The Father only revealed Himself in a fleshy form to Enoch and Adam. Jacob did not wrestle physically with the Father. He wrestled with the Father as one wrestles with an idea. To wrestle with an idea is to consider it from many different angles. To analyze it over and over. To understand it. And why did he do this? Because he wanted a relationship with the Father. That's the only logical explanation.
Jose Gutierrez
Nah, God is just a word from Proto-Germanic. It was never a title for "Wotan". And even if so, this is like saying Dios and God are different for two Catholics. It's stupid.
Jace Scott
Jacob wrestled with an angelic being named El. El is the equivalent of the term Godan (God) No man has seen Theon. They saw El. Therefore El (God) is not the same person as Theon The Father NEVER revealed himself in the flesh. No man has seen the Father (John 6:46) You are using "God" incorrectly Nobody has seen or heard Theon at any time.
Juan Long
Imagine debating an issue that was settled 1695 years ago.
First Council of Nicea, 325 AD: "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of his Father, of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father. By whom all things were made, both which be in heaven and in earth. Who for us men and for our salvation came down and was incarnate and was made man. He suffered and the third day he rose again, and ascended into heaven. And he shall come again to judge both the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. And whosoever shall say that there was a time when the Son of God was not, or that before he was begotten he was not, or that he was made of things that were not, or that he is of a different substance or essence or that he is a creature, or subject to change or conversion — all that so say, the Catholic and Apostolic Church anathematizes them."
Jaxson Murphy
All you did was just repeat yourself in different words. You didn't actually qualify your statements. I did. You're just building your statements on top of your other statements. That's not the same as qualifying them.
Jonathan Perry
JOHN 6:46 NO MAN HAS SEEN THE FATHER
You said God revealed himself in the flesh. Your argument was completely and totally obliterated. And you don't even understand it.
...in His purest rawest form. But He went on walks with Adam in the garden in the flesh and He appeared to Enoch in a flesh form as well. It says that in Genesis 3:9 that the Lord God was waling the garden and they heard His voice and knew that they were naked, so they hid from Him out of shame. You take things at face value and do not apparently understand the finer details. You don't have the pattern recognition for it. I have exposed you and pointed out to you how you substitute stacked statements for actually qualifying each of your statements and you are upset. Not my problem. I am correcting you. Either deal with it and learn or reject it and never learn. Your choice.
Asher Collins
It's the name given in the Holy Scriptures of The Divine. In the 5th century the Gothic Bible took the term "Godan" and inserted it everywhere in the scriptures form the German people. But Godan is the head of a Pan(theon) Meaning that term God is equal to El who was an angelic like being that visited men...The Son. Theon is a term for Divinity. The wording of John 1:1 is ton Theon The Divine Not "God"
Anthony Parker
Everything can be manipulated to fit their narrative, even the bible. JW are literally on the level of worst kikes. They manipulate weak people into their cult and use them to manipulate even more people.
Jesus and Lucifer are the same person. The Temptation was Jesus making a decision to either go back to rebellion, or following through on getting back in good graces with the Father.
He died to make penance for the actual original sin, to atone. He rose again because he was reborn anew, cleansed, thus there was no more need for additional blood atonement by anyone else. He took it all on.
All other subsequent blood price in his name, the Father's name or anyone else's name is a sin against God, not atonement.
Kevin Adams
False!!! John 6:46 No man has seen the Father You are confused because the word God is thrown around. God is equal to El. El was an angelic being who did visit men. El is the Son Not the Father.
Cameron Roberts
Wrong. Again, in His purest rawest form. That verse is saying that only He who is from the Father has seen the Father. Has KNOWN the Father...in His purest form. As in, only Iesous Christos has been in the presence of the Father truly. Meanwhile, in the case of Enoch and Adam, He appeared to them not ins His purest form, but in a form they could understand -- the flesh. I am not confused. You are. You don't deal well with complexities and imagery.
Chase Diaz
Theyre a cult so their points are invalidated as theyll warp anything to seem right
Chase Thompson
As an ex JW I did some research on this topic during my "wake up". Here is the most comprehensive compilation: readjw.info/whoischrist/ If you are interested in JW teachings, I encourage you to read some articles on that website.
Short version, as others already pointed out, the JWs are wrong with their understanding of Jesus, the NWT (New World Translation) has a lot of translation errors; John 1:1 is just one of them. readjw.info/bible/
A side note: According to Raymond Franz, an ex Governing Body member (think kinda like the pope but several people) Frederick Franz, who translated the greek scriptures for the first iteration of the NWT was self taught in greek.
The Father did not appear to them El Yahweh appeared to them. There are two Yahweh's it is a family name. As you have the same exact family name as your dad. El-Elohim Yahweh appeared to him. Read the interlinear. There are two Yahweh as seen in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. El is the angelic being that visited men. No man has seen the Father.
Parker Richardson
Genesis 18-19 has YHWHeating with Abraham in the flesh. Pay special attention to this verse:
>Then YHWH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from YHWH out of heaven. >Genesis 19:24
Notice that YHWH standing in the flesh next to Abraham called down fire from YHWH in heaven. It seems we have 2 YHWHs here. You may think that’s just a clumsy wording, but I assure you that it is intentional and a peak behind the curtain and Scripture confirms this.
>“I overthrew some of you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning; yet you did not return to me,” declares YHWH. >Amos 4:11
Here we have YHWH talking about God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah in the third person and then talking about Himself in the first person. This confirms there were 2 as YHWH in the Genesis 19 account.
This is the video you need to watch. It will clear up many of the tensions.
He's talking out his arse m8, don't worry too much
Theon = Accusative masculine singular form of Theos, which literally just means "god", and is used throughout the NT, and also in the Septuagint version of the OT.
Godan doesn't even refer to God, English isn't ancient Lombardic.
Ayden Flores
No The order of creation: Jesus Lucifer Michael Gabriel The sons of light Adam and Lilith Eve
Nicholas Torres
Read Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho He proved that the angelic Yahweh is a numerically separate being from Yahweh in the heaven, that the angel is the Son. That he is the one that appeared to men throughout the scriptures and that he serves the Father.
Gabriel Rodriguez
Michael is the Prodigal Son's brother, who never rebelled. Lucifer is the First Born, the Morning Star, who left home. Jesus came back home.
Aiden Morales
It comes from the Gothic Bible It is German from Godan
Anthony Foster
God means "to invoke"
Gavin Cox
A lot of the JW arguments have the ring of Judaising heresies. They seem to give more credit to esoteric Hebrew exegesis over the recognized church fathers.
Kayden Parker
Short answer: lol no
Gothic is an East Germanic language English is a West Germanic language Neither Gothic nor English are 'German', but Germanic
Again, God does not come from Godan. I, along with anyone who can trace an inkling of knowledge of how etymology works, can literally trace the word God. You can do it with Wiktionary, for God's sake. 𐌲𐍉𐌳𐌰𐌽 in Gothic is literally a conjugated form of 𐌲𐍉𐌸𐍃. Doesn't really work. And even if you were correct - so? It'd be a phonic fallacy, nothing more. Christians aren't worshipping "Godan" when they use the term "God", any more than Christian Arabs are praising the same deity as Muslims when they use Allah. It's literally just a word. To refer to God. Or Allah. Or Dios. Doesn't matter. If you're Christian, it's the same Being.
Bentley Robinson
He went on walks with Adam as in God. Since no man has seen the Father, by process of elimination you can deduct that Jesus walked with Adam. If you deny this you are saying the Bible is wrong.
Isaac Harris
Thats geneva, not jehova
JW have a bunch of issues. One being what you said, to which relates that afaik they believe that Archangel Michael would be Jesus. They claim this realm is rightfully ruled by satan instead of theough temptation and lies that makes us do his bidding etc. the whole thing is bullshit desu
Noah Anderson
Jenova's Witnesses are cooler
Jacob Bell
>God is a word to refer to God That's absurd. God is a word to refer to El And I have already explained why El is not Theon. Using the term God to describe Theon is not accurate.
Brayden Jenkins
Wrong
>have already explained why You talked nonsense, you mean Take your Gnostic and phonic fallacy nonsense somewhere else
Easton Russell
Russell seems to have been raised in a "fire and brimstone" type of interpretation of the Bible- constant guilt tripping, constant fear of hell, no confidence in the security of his salvation.
He knew this wasn't right, a good God couldn't possibly be the way He was portrayed by this type of interpretation.
So instead of getting it right, he re-wrote key parts of the Bible to create a religion without hell. He also ended up denying the Trinity in the process.
that's pretty much what the JWs are all about. It's sad, actually.
Eli Morgan
There is nothing Gnostic about what I said. These are the terms used in Holy Scriptures.
