Is it really worth it atheists?

Fixed

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There is only one God, but it has a few billion subjects to act through.
BE AN ANGEL, user

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If you can just be "generally good" and that will work without specifics, why are you worried about Pascal?

Which god is that?

Jesus is just the idea of an ideal human to strive for, if you have faith in people being able to become better and sacrifice themselves for the good of the world then you "believe in jesus" in an abstract sense.

any god that would punish me for doubting his existence doesnt deserve to be worshipped.

judaism, islam, chirstianity, zoroastrianism, is all the same god the whole DURR BUT WHAT IF ITS ANOTHER GOD is atheist cope God made himself clear to many, many people and cultures don't play dumb and act like it could be mickey mouse or some shit

Go back to facebook boomer

Send this to Varg

imagine living in fear of an invisible man over the clouds

I’m not worried about Pascal’s wager. Believing in God makes me feel better than not believing, so it would be irrational for me to be atheist based on that alone.

the universe did it

>God made himself clear to many, many people and cultures
Ok then where is god? i don't see it. sorry, looks like you're imagining things again

What kind of god creates in its own image only damn some of them for their beliefs?

Is this like living in fear of a coof?

>implying Jews and Muslims believe in Christ’s divinity

BASED

John 20:29

belief can't be coerced.

Ah, so you are just a lost illiterate retard not paying attention.

No need, the burden of the proof etc. And science just have theories. I for one, subscribe to the Electric Universe and Catastrophism theories.

*coof coof* wdym?

That's not why he punishes unbelievers, he punishes them because they are too wrapped up in their own ego to realise/admit there are forces in the universe that they will never ever be able to comprehend that will always dictate them and the world around them.

Also under the circumstance of you not believing in God then there is no way you could say he sent you to hell, you would send yourself to hell. You have to believe in God for him to exist and be able to affect you.

That is by far the worst argument I have ever heard for believing in Christianity. And this is coming from a Christian. All of us want to know the truth.

In order to be saved you have to truthfully believe in the sky man. You can't just say you do to cover your bases.

I’m none of those things. I’m very successful and have an amazing life, to the extent that I feel obligated to thank a higher power for letting me be so lucky. You sound like you’re projecting.

>If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.

Marcus

>burden of proof is on my strawman

Lol who knows I'm just eating Olive Garden over here like "Wtf?" you know?

Hell is made up bullshit to control OP. Christ died for ALL

but theres no way to know for sure. I understand that believing is all about faith, however for non believers(who are typically fedora tipping “logicians”) this is a logical argument.

this. atheists are simply full of pride. that's what realy pisses God off. Not that you just can't bleieve it that you think you got it all figured out

If refusing to believe in a god is punished eternal damnation, I don't believe that god is merciful nor worthwhile.

This. What if you live your whole life being just a decent, okay person, and the real God has no problem with that. But then you start to worship this weird, human-made religion, and the real God suddenly has a problem with you? You're better off not picking a side.

>he has never seen himself suffer when he denied reality

One that is above what you think is smart, faggot narcissist

Ok OP.
I say that if you moan every time you wipe your ass for 3000 times, you will eventually gain the power to fly, infinite wealth and unlimited bitches. By Pascal's wager, you should moan every time you wipe your ass. Retarded argument

You're forgetting the follow-up line immediately after where he says:
>But there are gods, and they are just and care for mankind.

If god does exist and he'd send me to hell for an eternity over not believing in his existence with zero evidence he's a piece of shit. I defy him now and I'll spend that eternity in hell defying him as well.

You fags are basically saying you've got no real morals. Just a gun to your head without the stones to stand up to your evil little god.

>more vague musings
thank you for the great wisdom

Go pray to a mosque, then, convert to budhism. Or one of those tiki-taka gods of the polinesians.

I always find it odd how atheists focus so much on the magic sky man and afterlife memes. It's like reading the story of the ants and the grasshopper and criticizing it because insects dont talk.

All you can cite is the scripture. Never a day on earth will there be any true evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god.

Mankind forsake God and therefore got exposed to good and evil. And as good cannot exist without the existence of evil, the human life is a quest to try to find the path of God that has been lost.

If moaning had no cost and a potentially unlimited payoff, then yes it would only be logical to do that every time.

There is only one God by definition, certain religions subdivide him but overall those gods make up the singular concept of God, you cant worship the wrong one, you could worship God in the wrong way but God will be the judge of if your misjudgment was of your own fault.

Your own immutable morals are a gun within your own head, you may as well call that God holding that gun, if theyre not immutable then you've got no real morals and have been pressured into some doctrine a la religion.

Bruh, you do know that the jury is still out in christiandom on whether people actually go to Hell? All it says is that the dead are raised on Judgement Day and that those who live unvirtuous lives or rebelled against God will be "tossed into the fire and destroyed". It's split between whether that means they go to Hell or whether that means their souls literally perish and they don't experience an afterlife.

Crazy evangelical proties just love the idea of sinners burning in hell so they spew about it every five minutes.

>all memeflags

atheists confimirmed for edgelord teens once again

The doctrine of going to heaven/hell when you die is a doctrine of demons and denies the gospel. Repent!
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10 (ESV)
4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die, but THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING, and they have NO MORE REWARD, for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Their LOVE and their HATE and their ENVY have already PERISHED, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
7 Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.
8 Let your garments be always white. Let not oil be lacking on your head.
9 Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun.
10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is NO WORK OR THOUGHT OR WISDOM IN Sheol, to which you are going.

Lets see, dead people KNOW NOTHING, dead people have NO REWARD(ergo no heaven and no hell), dead people have no WORK so they do nothing, they have no KNOWLEDGE, so they know nothing, they CAN NOT THINK, and they have NO WISDOM whatsoever

There is no afterlife, apart from resurrection you are DEAD, death is the OPPOSITE of life,
The doctrine of an afterlife is a doctrine of demons. Its purpose is to get you to deny the gospel, you cant believe Jesus died for your sins if you dont believe that death exists or that Jesus can die!
youtube.com/watch?v=xVoZ_UUUapw
youtube.com/watch?v=m0OJ9diFbJ4&list=LL4bTtwW2336DimxqmD4xbtA&index=29&t=0s
martinzender.com/
bible-truths.com/
godsplanforall.com/
saviourofall.org/
askelm.com/
iswasandwillbe.com/
godskingdom.org/studies/books/creations-jubilee/chapter-6-gods-three-harvest-festivals

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Depression is for weak minded pussies, same as Christianity

Believe the bible, There is no afterlife appart from resurrection

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing....

Psalm 146:2-4 (KJV)

2 While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.

3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Dead people cannot think. Nor can they praise God in heaven

Psalm 115:17 (KJV)

17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Grandma is not in heaven singing in the choir.

Acts 2:34

Acts 2:34 (KJV)

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

King David is not in heaven

Psalm 6:5 (KJV)

5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Dead people have no memories

When do dead saint meet Jesus for the first time?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
saviourofall.org/
martinzender.com/
bible-truths.com/
askelm.com/

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Is hell forever? NO! lets look at what Jesus says
Matthew 5:24-26 See also Luke 12:49-50 & Luke 12:57-59

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

The adversary is the devil. The judge is God. The prison is hell. Once he pays what is owed he gets out.

1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The Hebrew word satan, meaning “accuser” or “adversary"

Luke 12:57-59
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

What happens when they pay the last mite?

youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0wXqNnj8Y

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No, that's a meme. I'm interested in paranormal stuff, the legends and everytthing that's worth studiyng and living for. Maybe you only know teen fedroa atheists (which are teens for that very reason)

>believe in me or burn forever
only middle-easterners could come up with something like this. works like a charm, it seems

cringe-tier spam but based for at least knowing that annihilation of the soul is a thing

So, God makes the world, and its perfect, but still has the capacity for evil. I hear Christians argue that he gave humans the capacity for evil because he loves them enough to give them a choice. However, these same people will also tell you that there is no sin in heaven. Does God just not love us anymore in heaven, then? I mean, it seems that he revoked the choice.

Christianity is dumb and is a Kabbalah-tier crypto jew religion.

Read some of Origen's writing. Biblical Literalism is very new. The idea of the Bible as a book of parables is very old.

>There is only one God by definition, certain religions subdivide him but overall those gods make up the singular concept of God
Complete bunk. If there are Gods, and there may be, then they are many.

Pascal's Wager gets shit on a lot, because the way it is presented (even the way Pascal himself presented it if you take it out of the context of the rest of the Pensées) is retarded. But if you read the entire Pensées you find that Pascal believed that if a person goes to Catholic church and starts practicing the sacraments as best they can, they will receive intimate personal evidence of their spiritual power and will no longer need to just blindly believe. So the Wager's purpose is actually just to get your foot in the door.

Matthew 18:31-35 (KJV)
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

what happens when he should pay all that was due unto him?
He gets out
a finite amount of sin = a finite amount of punishment

if one sin = infinite punishment then Jesus would still be on that cross, he could never get off, if he did then he would have not paid for your sins

if one sin = infinite punishment then Jesus did not pay for your sins, he wanst punished forever

if one sin = infinite death, then Jesus would still be dead and would have never risen again (annihilation debunked)

in finite sin = finite punishment, then Jesus can pay for your sins, then Jesus can raise from the dead, and saved the world

the wages of sin is death, Jesus died to save us from the wages of sin, which is death, thanks to Jesus everyone will one day be immortal

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Sheol = the state of existence experienced between the time of death and the coming rapture. According to this understanding of death and the afterlife, dying is like going to sleep. The dead sleep and experience nothing until their souls are called for judgement. Only then might they be conveyed to Heaven.

I use memeflags because, unlike you, I value my anonymity.
Way to respectfully debunk our arguments, though.

let us go to another time Jesus is talking about hellfire

Mark 9:47-50 King James Version (KJV)
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Now let us look at the verse Jesus is quoting here
Isaiah 66:22-24 (KJV)
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Notice they are dead. Carcases are dead bodies. Look it up in other translations, they all day dead bodies. These people who experienced hell died.
Also notice the words new heavens and new earth. Where have I heard that in the bible?

Revelation 20:13-21:1 (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The people that go to hell die.
First they are resurrected, then they are judged, then they die.

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Also God knows everything, so free choice doesn't exist. All your actions are predetermined and God is making you go through the motions just so he can punish or reward you.

what happens to people that go to hell in the old testament

Malachi 4 King James Version (KJV)
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

lets compare that to what Jesus said in Matthew 13:48-50
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

the oven in malachi is the same furnace in Matthew 13:48-50

The people that go to hell die and turn to ash
they shall be ashes beneath the souls of your feet

>But doesnt the bible say hell is forever?

Well it depends on how the translator translates Aion and Aionios

sometimes the translator translates them as age and other times as eternal

biblehub.com/greek/165.htm
age (20), ages (6), ancient time (1), beginning of time (1), course (1), eternal (2), eternity (1), ever* (2), forever (27), forever and ever (20), forevermore (2), long ago (1), never* (1), old (1), time (1), world (7), worlds (1).
Just look at how they translate this word. Very inconsistent.
Remember the bible is true, the English translators can make mistakes.

bible-truths.com/email2.htm#aion

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Pascal's Wager is fucking stupid.
Stop trying to convert people by using it.

Also most Christians believe that hell is eternal. If they would translate the word accurately Christians would shun the bible for being heretical when it is being accurate to what the Hebrew and Greek says. You cant translate the bible correctly because it contradicts mainstream Cristian dogma

>but wont God make sure the bible translators translate the bible accurety?
mate, no, bible translators are mortal men. And I will prove it to you
Let me ask you something, how much hell is the correct amount of hell in the bible

For example here is a list of bible translations, and look at how varied they are with the word hell in their translation.
Is your bible, hell lite? Or hell full? What is the correct amount of hell for a bible?
Douay-Rheims (Roman Catholic) 110
Bishops Bible 1568 59
Original 1611 King James with Apocrypha 64
"Authorized" King James Version 54
Geneva Bible 1599 42
New King James Version 32
The Voice 17
New Living Translation 17
American Standard Version (Revision of KJV) 13
New American Standard Bible 13
Revised Standard Version (Revision of KJV) 12
New Revised Standard Version 12
Revised English Bible 13
New Living Translation 13
Amplified 13
English Standard Version (ESV)***** 14
New International Version, first edition (best-selling English Bible) 14

New International Version (later editions)*** 13
New English Bible (NET) 13
Darby 12
Wesley's New Testament (1755) 0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798) 0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823) 0
Young's Literal Translation (1891) 0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900) 0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902) 0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903) 0
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917) 0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917) 0

The Message Paraphrase (Eugene Peterson, Navpress)**** 68

There are more, I left out some. The translators are a law unto themselves

the hebrew and greek are inspired, man is fallible

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listen mate hell cannot be forever because it contradicts what the bible says about hells punishment being finite , therefore the translators picked the wrong translation for the word aion.

martinzender.com/
bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html
bible-truths.com/
godsplanforall.com/
saviourofall.org/
theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Hough/TheCrossOfChrist.htm#PartOne
theheraldofgodsgrace.org/authors_frames.htm

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youtube.com/watch?v=BRsfZBuPIHY&list=PLxf38ffwGka3lgpto_sqbOsTuEKWJauwK&index=2
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That makes no sense. The idea of the New Testament God is that he's the ideal personalization of a perfect "Good Father" who embodies the good behavior while trying to subtly correct humanity. Since the idea of good is all-governing, it makes no sense to subdivide God into multiple gods in different spheres. You can't behave morally well with respect to sailing but not hunting. There is a common set of morals for both.

Pagans don't believe gods are the embodiment of good behavior, they think they're mystical spirit kings with different domains, and that it's possible to do something that angers one but pleases another.

And, incidentally, this is a massively popular viewpoint in Christian circles, taking the form of Calvanism. People literally believe that God has predetermined who will/will not go to Hell and that nothing can ultimately be done to change it, and they still have confidence in his good will. Crazy fuckers.

The logic is flawed