"In the Balkans IQs are 94 for Romania, 92.5 (the average of the two stud ies) for Bulgaria, 90 for Croatia, 89 for Serbia, and 92.5 (the average of the four studies) for Greece. The probable explanation for this is that the Balkan peoples are a hybrid population or cline, comprising a genetic mix between the Europeans and South Asians in Turkey. Hybrid populations or clines arise in the borderlands between two races as a result of interbreeding. In the Balkans such a cline evolved because of the close geographical proximity between southeast Europe and Turkey, and the occupation of large territories in southeast Europe by Turkey for a number of centuries during the time of the Ottoman empire. This has brought about a mixing of Turkish and European genes with the result that contemporary Turks and Greeks are genetically quite similar. This has been shown by Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, and Piazza (1994) in their genetic linkage tree, in which Greeks are shown to be more closely related to Iranians and other southwest Asian peoples than to Italians, Danes, and English. This genetic similarity is also apparent for intelligence, for which the IQ of 90 in Turkey is closely similar to those in the range of 90 to 94 in Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, and Croatia in southeast Europe. Because the peoples of southeast Europe are a cline it is considered appropriate to exclude these in estimating the European IQ. The median IQ of the remaining countries is 99 and is considered the best estimate of the IQ of Europeans."
The last point about the hybridisation of the Balkans with Turks is a salient one. That Greeks are closer to Iranians than Italians came as a surprise, though the IQ data reflects this
it's official. iq simply is just related to how its tested. Yugoslavia had a very strict education system. when it broke up, people stopped giving a shit.
David Martinez
>it's official. That's not a fucking source. Post the source.
Hunter Bell
That's not a source. Also educational quality past a certain point does nothing for IQ
The hybridization theory makes very little sense to me considering other evidence such as admix analysis, PCAs and Haplogroups. Environmental pressures creating genetic changes in some areas and not in others makes way more sense to me. Remember, the genetic component of IQ or general intelligence can change within a nation with no immigration/race-mixing. Intelligence is not static, it changes based on breeding trends and mutation. The Austro-Hungarians ruled North Croatia for centuries, and North Croatians cluster genetically with Austrians/Hungarians. Serbs are not far off when it comes to admix, but aside from North Serbia (Vojvodina) they weren't under Austria-Hungary. From what I've seen, the intermixing with peoples who are actually Turkic/Arabic was minimal in places like Serbia and basically non-existent in Croatia/Slovenia
>The tests were administered in capital cities or in the biggest town in each country. But researchers believe the data from this study are of dubious quality: nobody knows the author; he did not work at a university; the way he collected so much data is unknown; the description of samples and testing procedure is scanty; and only one single two-page-long publication exists. The correlations with other measures, except PISA, are good (see below). The test data collection of Lynn and Vanhanen (2002, 2006; see Figure 2b) is now well known. They collected data from 113 countries (in 2002, 81 countries) and estimated missing test information for an additional 79 countries (in 2002, 104 countries). The correlation between the 2002 estimated and the 2006 measured values is r ¼.92 (N ¼ 28). Differently from the student assessment studies and from Buj, Lynn and Vanhanen relied on published and unpublished results from (more or less) representative samples that took a range of common intelligence tests, incorporating them all into one standard scale (mean for Great Britain was 100, standard deviation of Great Britain was 15, reference year 1979). The tests typically used were the SPM and Colored Progressive Matrices (CPM), less often the Advanced Progessive Matrices (APM), Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), CFT, and, more rarely, the American Otis Test, Kaufman-Assessment Battery for Children (K-ABC), Draw-a-Man-Test, McCarthy Test and others. For some countries the results of Buj (1981) were used, too. When possible, results were taken from different studies and averaged. Correlations of different test scores (within countries) across countries were very high (r ¼.92–.95; Lynn & Vanhanen, 2006, p. 62).
Ethan Stewart
IQ map is a hoax, there is no way all the population of a country had an IQ test.
Interesting numbers. There are many articles in journals, you can find them booksc.xyz/ using the proper keywords.
Which make a long case for income level and IQ - citing other papers for their ideas, but if Poland is so high - why is the wage slightly better than Romania. France is also on a very high wage level all-through, using Numbeo and official and then also GDP per capita numbers. Example read: In Italy, north–south differences in IQ predict differences in income, education, infant mortality, stature, and literacy Richard Lynn
Or let's consider Singapore - which is Han Chinese genetically, or Taiwan which is even closer to wholly Han Chinese.. and also take tier 1 Chinese cities which are like Western world... Singaporeans earn more than Americans, Taiwanese earn around Polish level and Chinese earn shit pay even in those big cities... yet the year the same genetic stock.
This is a very complex issue.
Isaiah Cruz
Holy kek. I just realized I was reading an article from the same guy like in the OP.
I should filter his name out and try to find others opinions as well.
Mason Butler
117 here, that's what mensa told me...
Benjamin Gomez
If Finns had that high relative IQ, I think we'd have had more of an impact on history. Sure, the climate sucks, and the population has always been microscopic, but you'd expect there to be more to show, if our IQ were indeed the highest in Europe.
Nathan Wilson
This data makes no sense. What is even being normalised here? If you get IQ means that are not exactly 100, you clearly already have some sort of an international IQ test. In that case, those massive differences in the standard deviations are absolutely ridiculous. And if it's domestic IQ tests, how could you possibly compare them with other countries? Also, why would normalising the standard deviation affect the mean in any way? This data is just complete nonsense.
Isaiah Kelly
Someone fucked up hard in the making of that table. It claims that Italy has a standard deviation of 35.2 in IQ. This would mean that 2.5 % of Italians have an IQ above 174.2. Also, About 0.15 % of Italians would have a negative IQ.
Adrian Bailey
IQ obviously doesn't predict 100% of economic success. It's the biggest predictor, but far from the only one. Historical/cultural and an untold number of variables play a role in distinguishing wage differences between nations. I think it makes more sense to look within a nation, aka compare the wage-IQ relationship within nations. I'm sure that you would find that higher IQ Romanians make more than their lower IQ countrymen, and that the relationship would be similar to the one observed in the Western world.
A think that a difference of 2-3 IQ points is not going to be particularly relevant. It wouldn't really make that much of a difference at the extremes of the distribution.
Landon Morgan
I bet if someone tested it out - the higher earning here would be attributed to nepotism, bribes at some point. Your reply is not satisfactory tho, I provided the Han Chinese example exactly because I thought about your ideas. They are all new cities / countries - developed within the last decades, culturally they are identical for the most part coming from the same root.
Josiah Gonzalez
The lower average IQ in the balkans is probably due to mass emigration. I can't speak for every country, but in Romania's case, there are 5-10 million of us living outside Romania/Moldova. You have to have an higher than avarege IQ to successfully emigrate, as you will need to learn a new language and get a high enough wage to pay rent. Sure there are a lot of beggars and strawberry pickers but those do not live there they just work contracts and then return home. You then look at let's say Hungary and you see they have a much smaller diaspora, and their IQ is quite a lot higher. This is probably what happened to Bulgaria and Serbia too. So guys, save both your and our countries and stop immigration.
Jaxson Gomez
Hungary is based af
Benjamin Perry
Hungary’s had a high rate of emigration. Not Romania/ Somalia tier but still very high. This just sounds like cope desu
Charles Watson
Sa stii ca m-am gandit la asta mai devreme citind articolul. Dar refuz sa cred ca au plecat cei mai destepti, din contra - cel mai probabil au plecat aceia care nu se descurcau in nici-un fel aici.
Ca fapt divers, majoritatea nu reusesc sa se adapteze acolo unde ajung nici dupa un deceniu - traiesc in conditii mizere, sunt discriminati samd.
Daca te uiti la clipuri de arhiva din 2018 cand au venit multi emigranti sa protesteze, erau foarte prajiti majoritatea.
Sau am urmarit in perioada electorala 2019 - cand PNL-isti cheie faceau sesiuni live cu grupuri de emigranti din diferite tari Europene, vai de capul lor - iarasi foarte prajiiti.
William Russell
>It wouldn't really make that much of a difference at the extremes of the distribution. That's the only place where it does matter. With a mean of 100 and std of 15, 1 person in 31 574 would have an IQ of 160. With a mean of 103, 1 person in 13 822 would have an IQ of 160. So such a small difference would already mean that you could have twice or thrice as many geniuses as you would otherwise.
Hunter Nelson
High IQ is knowing that IQ is a meme statistic
Carter Adams
IQ tests are bullshit. You know how I know? Think of the average Chinese person you see at the grocery store.
I'm thinking if IQ was such a good predictor of overall success.
Why don't big Western nations have at least one generous Visa type for people that score high IQ. I mean if you can't "grow" them, import them - it would be very favorable.
Michael Morgan
Between 2007 and 2012 Hungary had a net migration of around 3 per 1000 while we had something like - 20 per 1000. Their population decreased a lot slower too, even if our borders were opened roughly at the same time. The difference is huge. I'm not really trying to cope, all jokes aside most of us have a reluctant respect for Hungary and how they turned out after '89.
Because no black person would get that visa, so it'd be one of the most racist things imaginable.
Jeremiah Long
We're not interested in over-all success. The International Capitalist Class wants sub-IQ mutts and wants all the non-elite but high-IQ types to die out or kill themselves.
Easton Peterson
You wouldn't expect the ones that successfully integrated to really care what happens here tho.
Brody Hernandez
Low effort shitpost. You can find countless high IQ blacks, with legitimate test scores - being public all over the globe.
Owen Walker
Because China only tests the best high schools in its wealthiest provinces. Meanwhile they wouldn't allow outside researchers to go around the countryside, whereas in Africa no one is stopping people from doing so. >generous Visa type for people that score high IQ Because half of the Western world thinks IQ is racist. Most quota immigration systems indirectly do so with education or wealth requirements, which overlap with high IQ but aren't a guarantee. Having been to southern Italy, I can't believe Italy can score higher than Germany or Finland. Southern Italians are super nice, friendly people, but they're definitely not the smartest.
Brody Cox
If there was Turkish admixture in the Balkan it would be easy to detect.
Aaron Lewis
I found the opposite to be true, many of the smart ones who integrated care a lot, but again it's my anecdotal evidence - but I do look careful and wide for these things. Our richest person right now is a guy who returned home to start a business after being successful abroad. And I keep hearing such stories.
Angel Diaz
> I bet if someone tested it out - the higher earning here would be attributed to nepotism, bribes at some point.
Possible that nepotism would play a bigger role, thus reducing the IQ-Wage correlation.
> Your reply is not satisfactory tho, I provided the Han Chinese example exactly because I thought about your ideas. They are all new cities / countries - developed within the last decades, culturally they are identical for the most part coming from the same root.
I don't think you understood what I meant, but I didn't explain myself properly so It's my fault. It doesn't matter, all that matters is my point that IQ obviously doesn't correlate 100% with wage earnings when you compare nations. In order to find out the exact correlation you would have to make a pretty comprehensive study. Speculating is a bit pointless without actual data.
> That's the only place where it does matter.
I am aware of that. What I meant is that this particular difference is not large enough to make Finns super noticeably smarter than the rest of Europe. It's not like it's a mean difference of 10-15 points. I get what you mean doe. As an added bonus, I have read something about Finland, high median IQ and lack of noticeable "genius" accomplishment. Here, might be interesting to you:
Yes, and you can find Nobel prize winners all over the globe as well. The problem is that there are quite a few more people without such a prize than with. If you had a visa program for Nobel prize winners, you wouldn't get very many of them. Which is basically what you'd be asking, if you wanted to import black geniuses. There simply aren't very many.
Brody Ramirez
by the looks of this only holland germany and poland are aryan just what i always expected.
>t. polish aryan chad
Elijah Robinson
There are black ethnicities with high average IQs. Igbo for example. In the UK schools they outperform Indians and Chinese even.
Dylan Martin
Yeah I didn't really mean they don't care, it's that they can't afford to come back all that often to vote/protest. I know some diaspora as well and as much as they want to return, most of them have children now who were raised there.
Angel Turner
>There are black ethnicities with high average IQs. I doubt it. >In the UK schools they outperform Indians and Chinese even. You can't base your view of a people on immigrants, because they're an extremely select subset. If Finland only allowed immigration of Indians, if they have a job in the technology sector, we might end up with the impression that Indians are on average damn smart.
Aaron Nguyen
I didn't reject your ideas, that's the point - they are reasonable.
But when you look at life and examples that are not very synthetic and not sound in the studies selection method, I had found a 2012 review of lucid dreaming papers that was more methodological than the entire works of the guy in OP.
Landon Reed
>I doubt it
Lmao OK.
Brody Jones
no it's the sd of the sample not of the actual curve it's wide because apparently the Italians had a wide iq distribution as far as I know iq has a sd of 15 always. the high sd does say something about how trustworthy this sample is tho.
Matthew Ortiz
He's right. If you take Indians as an example, a lot of Indians that come to study in the west come from well off families, they are higher SES and thus higher IQ. So they're not exactly representative of the average Indian. Not sure about the Igbo, haven't heard about them before. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
> I had found a 2012 review of lucid dreaming papers that was more methodological than the entire works of the guy in OP
Eeeh, I would have to go over it myself. I do have some doubts myself. Back in 2006 they said Croatia has an IQ of 90, now it jumped to 98. If I remember correctly it was because they used the nations around Croatia to make that inference. That's pretty sloppy, I'm not sure if they did something like that in the 2012 study as well. Approximating IQ of nations based on it's surroundings might work in some cases, but the Balkans are pretty volatile and complex.
Levi Ramirez
>no it's the sd of the sample not of the actual curve The sample size is 1400. The sample std is practically guaranteed to be the same as the underlying std. >it's wide because apparently the Italians had a wide iq distribution Nobody has that wide. It's literally impossible. >as far as I know iq has a sd of 15 always. Well, you don't know too much about IQ measurement, then. The std is 15 only when it's defined to be so. However, the moment you start comparing different populations is the moment you also get different stds. This is simply because you now have two data sets, and you can't rectify these statistics unless the datasets are statistically equivalent. Which is obviously not the case, because that'd imply that there are no population differences. For instance, you could administer an IQ test on 1000 chimps and 1000 humans. For the combined data set, you'd obviously define the mean to be 100 and the std to be 15. So do you think it would look like, if you now looked at only the chimp IQ? Surely the mean wouldn't be 100, and there's no reason to expect that that the standard deviation would be 15 either. The chimp IQ would, in fact, be far below 100, and the human IQ would conversely be far above 100. The same would be true for the standard deviation.
Jacob Phillips
I don't think anyone is well off in Nigeria, man. They are concentrated in Liverpool as well, a pretty awful place.
This. Indians are a legit one of the nicer minorities to have in your country, to bad India itself is a shithole
Zachary Thomas
When I say well off I mean well off compared to their group. Living in Africa with a high intelligence is obviously not gonna bring you the same material well-being as living in Denmark with a high intelligence. I'm not going to reject the possibility that some African ethnicities are substantially more intelligent than others. It's definitely worth checking out, even if they're just the exception to the rule.
Parker Jones
Tadaa. Its why the jew want to destroy it.
Owen Green
Choorkas corrupt our statistics. If you remove them from Moscow, it will be 110+
