I left Christianity a little while ago because I have a lot of doubts.
Why would God punish someone with eternal suffering in hell for not believing in Jesus despite there being no proof that he was God’s son, if God loves everyone?
There are no proofs, but I should believe in it like a sheep otherwise I will get tortured. Why would a loving God do that?
There is a lot of proof for it. Read the book The Case For Christ. They also made a movie of it.
Maybe those telling you what God is are faulty men or worse, malicious men?
That's the exact point, you should believe like a sheep and gib monies to your priests. Religion is just dumb, time to grow up and move on with your life.
>Read the book The Case For Christ.
Wouldn’t God make it more available for everyone if he really loves us all?
The bible was written by sandniggers. Need I say more?
First you need to understand the problem, not the solution. The problem is:
>For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)
You sinned, I sinned and Adam sinned in the Eden. Now then what happens after you sin?:
>For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
He is not giving you condemnation, He is giving you salvation through Jesus Christ, you just need to accept it and repent. You can't buy your entrance to Heaven yourself, that's why God had to come Himself as a perfect sacrifice lamb for our sins.
>For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
You’re avoiding the question. Why would I dedicate my life to something that I can’t confirm?
Jesus saved everyone through the cross, of course there is a possibility that heaven might not be to your liking. Gods presence warms the virtuous but burns the sinners, the choice do you cultivate virtue or sins is up to you. And, no you shouldn't act like a sheep but carry your own cross.
Why are these questions always the same? I'm not even christian but these questions get answered by picking up a book.
>You sinned, I sinned and Adam sinned in the Eden.
How about I did not sin I rose up from beast and became something more opposed to sinned and fell from heaven and became something else?
Your understanding of the faith is infantile, the bible is allegorical, Christ is within you and its not about "believing" in a man that existed two thousand years ago, its about finding Christ within and by that process to believe (through experience) in Christ.
Meditate, pray, still your mind let go of the discriminating mind which is always labeling things and judging things, which is holding on to what other people have said about you, or whatever... Forgive your enemy don't hold grudges, put your trust in something beyond "the self" in fact there is no self, you are a collection of thoughts and you are a conditioned being, your thoughts change, your identifications change, there is no personality that is static, it is always changing because it arises from the material world.
However there is something peering through your eyes, something unconditioned, vast and endless, go meditate and don't practice dogmatic religion in which you are not told to seek wisdom within but instead must believe certain stories and believe in certain people, that is not how you come closer to God, that is just something to occupy the mind.
God would never put fear in his people, the fear comes from being disconnected from God.
There is proof retard look up Robert Breaker, Kent Hovind, and Watchman on YouTube they break things down bretty good
Grow up, believe in what you know and accept the things you dont know, live as objectively fair as you can and eliminate you need for fairy tales.
Only the dead know the answers to your questions.
>I used to be Christian
Are you sami or what? Because Swedes are not Christians.
This made sense. Thanks!
Nej, jag är en blond och blåögd Svensk.
That will be up to you and your spiritual walk to search, user. We have historical confirmations of Jesus' existence and that itself fulfill a lot of prophecies already, our gift is eternal life through faith of what we didn't see.
John 20:29
>Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Swedes worship cuckoldry
You left Christianity? Or you lost faith in the concept of God? Don't define your faith in a higher power by some omnipotent Church's teaches. Faith in God is a personal relationship with him. I found myself extremely angry at the Catholic Church for what they've became over these past 40 years. Apostate Pope Francis sealed the deal and I became Coptic Orthodox. It all starts from within you. Do you think God serves man or does man serve God? God sending Jesus Christ to Earth was the game changer because God put himself to death for all to have a chance at salvation, if you choose it. Find really what you've lost; whether it is your faith or a retarded church you're not happy with. Choose something that connects with you; after all, your relationship with God is a personal experience... Not just go to church and call it good. I usually pray for all lost souls when I pray, you'll be one. If you are just a LARP, fuck you then.
calling god a liar and being angry that he will punish liars, pottery
>There are no proofs
there are tens of thousands of old manuscripts from the gospels
there is more proof that Jesus existed, than that you exist
also there is the empty tomb, millions of testimonies and what not
>How about I did not sin
Well, impossible. Even a lie is sin according to the Bible.
Because of Adams original sin we all deserve death and hell. If we merely accept God and choose him over hell then he will save us and supernaturally give us the faith hope and charity that justify.
I lost my faith. I’m not a member in any church. I’ve had a mental conflict these last weeks. Whenever I tried to pray I thought it was stupid and I started doubting. I thought a lot and then I said to myself “I don’t believe in this. I’ve just been forcing myself to believe in this for 10 years now.”
The greatest torture of hell is being deprived of God. The damned suffer extra punishments based on the degree of sin they committed. God does this because he is perfectly Just. Its only just to give an infinite punishment for the infinite sin of rejecting infinite goodness itself
Even if YOU didn't sin, you were born into it. Since you are man, you are apart of humanity; thus, inherit the sins committed by humanity.
life on earth is 4 billion years old but you think God's One True Book begins as a list of Abraham's descendants?
That's not proof. All that is is a bunch of scripture you're parroting, it's completely useless and tells us nothing of whether it's true or not.
That doesn’t sound very just.
>Why would God punish someone with eternal suffering in hell for not believing in Jesus despite there being no proof that he was God’s son
Are there really Christians who believe that? I mean theologically educated Christians, not the common folk. Usually they say hell is eternal separation from communion with God, or the eternal presence of God but with the self-knowledge that one is sinful, or simple non-existence. Even the Catholics and Orthodox, who are some of the most ardently literalist intepreters of Christ's words, generally do not preach the eternal torture thing.
Well my point wasn't historicity of Jesus. My point was more about why loving god sends people to hell, which is very overused strawman.
The mental conflict is God trying to bring you to him in these end times. Pray for the grace of faith like the man did to Christ: Lord I believe, help my unbelief!
>Why are these questions always the same? I'm not even christian but these questions get answered by picking up a book.
Guess what, the kind of people that ask this don´t read books.
>Why would God punish someone with eternal suffering in hell for not believing in Jesus despite there being no proof that he was God’s son, if God loves everyone?
This is my problem with Christianity as well.
Yes we do
T. Catholic.
Disbelief in eternal damnation is heresy. Christ himself taught it.
Don't force yourself. But keep your eyes open. Clearly you can see good and evil around you. You can choose to believe its just human beings being shitty or good. Or perhaps there's more to it. The most important thing though, is you've recognized a problem and now you're saying that you don't believe in any of this. Is this YOU saying this? Or are the influences around you trying to get you to believe this? You may not believe in good or evil, but it believes in you. Especially evil.
Take your meds brainwashed cult member. There is zero proof of Jesus ever existing - even the contemporary accounts outside of the four Gospels (which contradict each other) are writers mocking Christians for believing in literally anything. Christians are the laughing stock of the World and rightfully so.
Fuck you, fuck your God and fuck the fucking Holy Spirit.
The biggest proof is probably Christian faith. We don't have that kind of "blind faith" simply because yes, it's the spirit of God inside us. You can start reading the Bible or even trying to search for the truth, ask God even if you don't believe.
Who are you to determine what is just? Who am I? Is the world that you see around you just? Is it not getting worse? Be the devil's advocate with these thoughts. Where can you find justice these days? In the eyes of God, we are just another species of living beings that he's created. What makes us so special?
I’m in a similar situation. How can god be a just god if he condemns people to eternal punishment for deeds done during a noneternal life?
If you need to believe in something, try a religion that doesn't use your fear to manipulate you into doing what it dictates.
I mean it isn't as though you don't have any doubts, why the fuck would anyone in his right mind choose consciously to believe in something that makes him live under constant fear of hell?
No proof? Bro have you not heard all of the arguments for God? Check out William Lane Craig. Did you not know the Bible is 28% prophecy with more and more being fulfilled daily?! Did you not know that you can KNOW God?! Dude we're not walking around with a religion here. Repent and be born again, that means asking God to forgive you and for Him to regenerate you and trusting in what He did on the cross. Ask God to sort you out right now this is unacceptable to be in America, founded on these truths, and not know all of this.
I am the way, the truth, and the life no one comes to the father but by me. -Jesus
user. GOD doesn't send people to hell, PEOPLE choose to turn away from God and willingly go there.
God is dead
The biggest proof is faith? What a load of complete shit - do you not feel ridiculous when you say things like that?
I've read the King James Bible many times prayerfully and I now realise that it's all just nonsense. There are mountains of scientific proof for evolution and an old Earth, these things among many other disprove the Bible.
Faith is worthless, you can believe anything on faith - it is not a reliable pathway to truth.
You're very wrong. Sinners rejoice in God's presence because he offers salvation. No matter how terrible a person you've been, you have a chance for salvation too. Anyone can have it if they choose it.
Yes, that's what I said in my earlier post.
>No proof
Weak bait. Enjoy eternity in hell for shitposting.
>People choose to turn away from an invisible, silent, imperceptible God who's existence is totally unverifiable.
Fuck off you total fucking moron.
>I should believe in it like a sheep
Blind faith > No Faith.
this
I hope one day that you are not lost anymore.
Except god himself set up this whole merry-go-round. That’s like China providing medical supplies after they unleashed the virus upon us. You may counter that man choose to eat the apple, but god chose to put the apple in front of him. God created the devil to temp him and god made man the curious sort that might eat the apple. Our doom itself was created by god and you claim we should be thankful he saves us from it?
>Sinners rejoice in God's presence because he offers salvation
Those are people who repent, not the sinners/damned.
>you can believe anything on faith
You should question yourself more then. You're believing there's no God or Jesus didn't exist by faith, or lack of faith but it's similar. Just like people have to believe the big bang by faith since there's no big evidence.
You're on the good road.Difficulties are always a test.So, about Christianity, it's not a problem, just talk to g*d by your own way, read the ancient testament, psalms, proverbs etc...
Forget all the "religious stuff" make your way, you've not lost faith, you have doubt about Christianity bc it's sound dumb.A pregnant virgin, a son of g*d, like g*d takes vacations and goes to the beach...sure.
For the "hell" story, ofc it's not like they said, it's more like an emergency room where stuff need to be fixed.Can be harsh for sure, depends on what you have made to your soul.And max time is 1 year, some exeptions for very evil people.
If you take the atheist road like i did, you'll see soon or late that is just non-sense.
So if i can give you just one advice it is keep getting up when you fall, the real fault is when you don't fight back.Hope you will find some light buddy.
Don't you need to go pray to Satan, Ahmed?
The whole point is there is no proof. You're never gonna know one way or another because that's the point. It's a test.
It's also a load of horseshit. The Bible is a watered-down heavily edited version of a series of texts by multiple authors, and christians simply cannot decide what parts are relevant and what aren't, so subdivide into hundreds of smaller denominations.
A simple human can never understand something as complex as a God. Any attempts to speak to word of God as a human is simply nonsense and should be ignored. We add human attributes to a being that would not be human. He is a series of contradictions and lies.
Stick with being rational, and think for yourself.
If you feel the presence of a God in your life, then venerate and get close to that presence. If you don't, then great! You don't need to do anything.
I personally think it's all a load of horseshit, but I'm open minded enough to assume I could be wrong.
Any organised religion is complete faggotry though, avoid that shit like a plague. God is something personal. Don't listen to the words of 20 edited accounts from 2000 years ago to tell you how to live your life.
oh fuck off with your " God is unverifiable" bullshit. There's a lot of unverifiable shit you do believe. Go bugger your mother.
No - I don't believe I God/Jesus and the extraordinary claims associated with then because there is no reason to. There is no evidence the burden of proof is with you to convince me the non believer.
Grow up you stupid little cunt, I was Baptist for years. It's all bollocks mate.
WHY does he need to punish?
He isn't a human, he's an all powerful, all knowing, all loving being, so would not need emotions like vengeance and the NEED to punish. If he is all loving, then he would forgive his wayward child. You are truly cucked if you honestly believe in this horseshit. Why would a god be anything like a human?
user, everyone is a sinner. Even if you repent. You are still a sinner. The only people/beings who are damned are those that damned themselves.
>why can't I be a coomer and enter the kingdom of Christ and his angels?
>there is no reason to
There's no reason to care about the afterlife? Even if you don't believe in anything, it's a big concern.
You quite literally are a rising beast, so am I, and everyone in this thread.
>the bible is true because the bible says so
please stop with the circular reasoning. I, too, recognize there is a cultural significance ascribed to Christianity. There are stories contained within that are of great symbolic importance.
Here's where we go off to my opinion on the matter: The phrase "God is dead" signifies the lack of importance which religion has in our society. Identity politics are now outplaying the role of said religion. Plus, who the hell wants to be some literalist zealot anyways? That interpretation will forever relegate you to a stagnate state of existence with no sign for transcendance possible. The fetishization of morality is keeping you from true morality.
And as for sin, I believe it symbolically represents our human capacity for self-awareness. We are clearly caught in an intermittent phase which is causing a great deal of mental anguish for many, and is clearly intrinsically tied to the state of the human condition, born into it, one might say. So, the atheist may have it wrong to out and out depose authority, and the zealot, too, as to conform to this sort of slave morality.
Create your own rules through autonomy, and rationality, seize control, and ascend. This, I believe, if a God is good, could not fault a man for coming to this conclusion. In this way, it is important to conduct oneself in a manner such as to disregard any potential reward or punishment referenced in any sacrosanct book.
We don't know what happened prior to Lucifer adoring his own image, which subsequently led to his fall from heaven. We don't know if it was planned.. There's a lot that we don't know. All that's been given to us is how to make it through this life.
If you had a child, and the child did something wrong once when you told them not to do it, would it be fair to punish every single one of it's descendants for the rest of eternity with damnation and hell? It's fucking stupid dude. It's stupid to believe the bible as fact in the first place, but even more stupid to believe that an all-loving god would punish every single person that ever descends from Adam or Eve just because THEY fucked up. Imagine believing you deserve to repent because of something you believe your oldest possible anscestor did?
I will never respect you cucked Christians
It's not about vengeance, it's about justice. God is perfect and justice, not a lukewarm 2020 person.
Hell is the state of separation from God. The people that go there weren't "sent" there. They went there because they degraded themselves through sin, iniquity, and disbelief, and, now knowing the Truth, suffer in the torment they have created for themselves.
Think of it like a heroin addiction. You think well okay maybe I can try it just once. And then you do it again. And then you shoot for the first time. And little by little you get so used to the sin that you can inject toilet water in your arm without a blink. That is what sin is. It's like how pedophiles just sink into their own depravity, or hook up culture until fornicating with multiple total strangers in a week just seems normal because they normalized it to themselves.
And, while the ecstasy of heroin may feel great at first, you'll notice after awhile it wears off and you get used to it. So little by little they escalate their degeneration until they're out stealing cars and this is the life they lead now, constantly sick, constantly in trouble, their lives utterly destroyed. Sin is the heroin addiction. It is like the hell you create for yourself by trying heroin and getting deeper and deeper into your addiction. God doesn't punish you with an addiction, or craving, or withdrawals, or an overdose. You did all that to yourself while God was trying to nudge you in the right direction but you didn't listen, and because of free will, God won't stop you if you're so stubbornly hellbent on your own destruction but He is there waiting and trying to save you from yourself every step of the way.
There's a lot of shit that you believe, user, that has no proof. Yet I hardly think that you are as critical on those topics as you are on other people's spirituality. Why don't you go fuck a horse, dipshit?
>Make it more available
It's available.
There is nothing just about punishing genuinely good and honest people simply because they didn't believe in some 2000 year old text written by 100 different people and edited to fit the narrative
A just god would send these zealot idiots who never think once for themselves to a slime pit where they belong
Ok. Now go neck yourself in another thread, Mohammed.
Flavius Josephus, and Pliny the Elder among other notable Romans did elucidate on the topic of Jesus Christ. I think it would be folly to discount his existence entirely as it does not have to be the crux of paroxysm against Christianity. It is suitable enough to say that is merely a slave morality for licentious individuals who seek something comfortable. It allows them to maintain a sort of half-awakened state well composed enough to keep them out of danger, yet without any sort of exploration.
hell is a choice, not a punishment. Hell is simply the absence of God's protection and blessing. You choose to reject God, so He does the moral thing, respects your choice, and puts you somewhere removed from Him. That doesn't make you happy? Then stop rejecting God.
Why should i be damned in this plane of existence because of the sin of a single man? Why? Why should so many people be damned again this time to be burnt to toast again forever.
ALL CAUSE OF THE SIN OF A SINGLE MAN. WHY SHOULD I SUFFER?
it's bullshit
My friend would like to have a word with you
>genuinely good and honest people
Humans are pretty good when comparing sins. You're a good person because you didn't kill like this another person, the person who killed don't think he is that bad too, since there's another person who did worse. Now apply this to God, who never sinned.
Your mind is very small. Essentially, you are joining a fight that was being waged in heaven long before the existence of humans. And YOU choosing evil over good, you are taking sides whether you refuse to believe it or not. YOU are taking sides and YOU are on the side that's opposing God. Therefore, what happens in a war to the defeated? Is that fair? Women, children, families, everything destroyed. Is that fair?
God isn’t Christian
Get off the Abrahamic plantation
>make a thing
>tell it not to do something
>it does something
>you get mad at it and decide that every single one of it's children for eternity are damned unless they suck up to you, because for some reason you need validation and belief, even though you are an all powerful being with no emotions
WOW SURE MAKES SENSE TO ME BRO
>Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
>Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
>Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'
You sound like a born again christian. Also I said that in my first post. Everyone is saved which means they feel Gods presence, but not everyone enjoys it.
God is absolutely not just. He is also a very jealous person so he judges with emotions.
You're thinking like a human. Even if you don't believe in God, try to believe that you are a power standing above all life you've created. Stand and think this over from that height. I really don't care whether you love us or hate us; you can be drawn and quartered for all I care. You are making your own choice as to what you want. You can ridicule people's spirituality or belief system all you want, but I'm here to tell you that you've already chosen a side whether you realized it or not.
LMFAO im in a war? And what is the evidence for this war? Yet again, you're following the myths of the fucking Bible
The Bible is the most falliable source ever, containing falsehood upon falsehood and a bunch of stories. There have been thousands of prophets and Bible-esque books, but somehow YOUR one is special or different and tells the REAL story.
Neck yourself and go meet this God you believe in so much
>person spends entire life volunteering for charity, helping vulnerable people in the community, commits no sins that are listed in the bible except he doesn't believe in God
>therefore he deserves a literal eternity of damnation
Logical
Why an eternity? Why does every sinner get the same punishment regardless of the level of sin? If I don't believe in God and die otherwise sinless, why am I punished just as much as Adolf Hitler?
This is some baby tier logic
Continue walking toward god and away from religion. Don't let anyone hinder you. God loves you and wants you to prosper. Christianity's single asset has been whites. Without us it's just another worthless earth system among the same stupid shit-flinging apes. The ONLY people on earth who need Christ for intercession are Jews.
The Greek philosophers had the true vision of God and the cosmos. The bible is children's poetry in comparison to the vast library of knowledge left in the inheritance of Pythagoras
Pontius Pilate himself did also write some letters on the subject of Christ. But because he wanted to keep things cool with the local Jews, he went along with it and "washed his hands" of the deal.
OP Watch this series, it is very helpfull
youtu.be