"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing...

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil?" -Epicurus

Discuss.

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God has never saved anyone from anything.
Guns on the otherhand do.
Invest in a good gun.

There is no point discussing god on this site anymore.
It's been flooded with literal choir boys who parrot the pre-packaged belief system imposed on them by their parents.
No worth it.

What is free will.

God made Adam and Eve perfect but they sinned

>Missing the point

Why should god not be malevolent? Further how autistic do you need to be to consider any amount of evil existing at all as being malevolent.

You don't get to judge God based on your own subjective morality. This is next level retarded. If God exists, He is the only objective moral law maker.

This is 16 year old fedora tier "logic." Kys

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How does malevolence follow from the ability to prevent evil without willingness to?

For example the government could, hypothetically, prevent obesity by ruling over everyone's diets, but is it malevolent not to do so?

Clearly in this example something greater would be lost by taking away free will.

>Projecting this hard
Literally every adult male Christian I know except for two grew up in areligious households.

Sounds like sin is pretty normal if perfect humans could do it too

Marcus Aurelius BTFO this faithless fool.

I forget the exact quote, but he broke it down instead to:
>if god is kind, then he will judge us for our actions over our lifetime (without forcing us to do good or evil)
>if god is cruel, then why worship him at all?
>if there is no god, then you need not worry because you will live on through your deeds (and misdeeds) in life for generations to come.

you know why he broke it down this way?

Because GOD decides, he is the only moral law.

>best of all possible worlds
I am sure there are other arguments, but that's one way of addressing the challenge. Secondly, if you want to have genuine discussion the terms of engagement should be set out as well.

He wiped the world of evil with the flood and promised he wouldn't interfere ever again. He's being consistent.

>If god real why bad happen?
Because the evil of the world is a test for us to become stronger and appreciate the good. Also, god is not entirely omnipotent. He can’t make 2+2 equal 5, because the energy of god must manifest itself within the framework of logical mathematics. Math is the basis of science, and so natural law is based off of mathematical law. In the same way, just as zero contains both infinity and negative infinity, life must contain both good and bad. That’s math.

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>How does malevolence follow from the ability to prevent evil without willingness to?

It likely refers to the willingness portion, i.e. if you CAN stop evil but you willingly allow it, what is the reason for doing so?

The age of internet atheism has came and gone, it really stopped being a thing around 2008-2010
Enough with the faggoty debates

Because suffering, as a state of being, is not evil in Christianity.

>Create humans
>Give them the ability to do evil
>Know the future
>Know which humans will and will not do evil
>Punish them in hell for all eternity for doing what I already knew they were going to do when I created them
>mfw

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Epicureus was a snowflake

Freedom is more important than protection from evil.

If you believe otherwise youre going to have to lock up your children and not let them leave the house ever... heck not even leave their rooms, make them padded too..

thats probably child abuse but hey, prevent evil

>Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
This doesn't follow at all.

Why would you worship a malevolent cunt of a god?

You would if he reserves his malevolence for your enemies or if worshiping him is a way to lower his contempt for your sorry ass.

>Anybody who doesn't believe in my pre-packaged christian belief system is a fedora wearing acne pocked neckbeard.
Strawman argument.

>Because GOD decides, he is the only moral law.
Then there is no reason to believe it is better to be moral than immoral. Because God could have changed his mind yesterday and now it is moral to eat babies.

>You don't get to judge God based on your own subjective morality
What if someone does?

Epicurus is not talking about a single person in here though. He is talking about all evil and how god has the power to destroy it but simply doesn't which is another proof that god doesn't exist.

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willing and able

but
we are unwilling

>dude why do bad things happen
I hate Epicurus. Good and evil are interpretations that only exist on the human level. God is reality itself.

This person and virtually everyone else are riding the coattails of the Jewish depiction of God, instead of using critical thinking and logic to contemplate not only what forms could could not exist in, but what forms "God" could exist in.

Gods the endpoint of evolution and anyone with logic beyond a 1 year old should be able to grasp this obvious logic.

Biological evolution from amoeba to Man has survived BILLIONS of YEARS of the worst this planet, disease, asteroids, predators could offer.

It's absurd to assume this evolution ends at Man. So, children, WHAT FORM COMES AFTER MAN. Ugly kike goblins, with the British Kike Royal Bloodline Still Presiding Over a Cult of Deceit/Lies/Insanity that Runs the World?

Or Crystalline Angelic entities of the HIGHEST ORDER of PSYCHOLOGICAL COGNITION, ETHICAL COGNITION, PHYSIOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT/BEAUTY?

God is real pussies, sorry to knock your backwards hat off your little sophmoric douche bag heads.

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You are calling adult thinking "16 year old fedora tier" and then demanding that everyone act like an 8 year old and just believe whatever comes out of your arrogant mouth.
Blind faith is 8 year old logic.
Skepticism of wild claims is being a mental adult.

1. God created the world.
2. God is perfectly good, and so must make the greatest possible world.
3. There is evil in the world.
4. So the best possible world contains evil.
5. And atheists still complain.

God is real but he is within us. It is up to us to unleash our divine nature as Aryans and cleanse this world of filth.

How would you fucking know? Did you experience any other level that human level? You are just parroting like all the other religious brainlets.

Nigga, only the Sith deal in absolutes.

>God is perfectly good, and so must make the greatest possible world.
Please define 'good' and 'evil'.
Are these not subjective?

What gives God his maleness? Does he have a big swinging dick and an XY chromosome pair?

>thinking you'll have anything original to say to thousand year old arguments

I have an easier way to show the absurdity of God. An omnipresent being within a spacetime continuum means there is no room for any other being by logical necessity. This means, if you believe in God, you either

A) can't believe in your own existence besides as God.

or

B) must conceive him as outside this universe.

And if B, then why concern yourself with him at all? He is unknowable then and everything written on him is a guess.

God made everything, including evil. Evil needs to exist in order for good to exist. God allows evil to exist in order to test our dedication, determination, and adoration of him. Youre free will is what allows both good and evil to exist.

Alot of evil is created by man. God created man. So.....Its kinda ridiculous to simplify everything so much. At some point, personal responsibility plays a major role. Why blame everything on God? What did your parents do? And their friends parents? Etc etc. ALL OF IT PLAYS A FACTOR. Trying to focus in on a singular item to point all blame to is just fucking dumb. Humans fucked up. Plain and simple.

God has given us gift, after gift, after gift, and we shit on them all. Then people still have the nerve to try and point to God for some kind of blame. Fuck off. PLain and simple. Hang yourself until dead.

thats all sci fi fantasy quackery AT BEST
apply yourself

Fake quote.

Sounds like something Indians would believe, not that I have any disrespect
>hey, make it rain over us, and give the other tribe drought
>you were supposed to give rain only to us, fuck you!

did not make evil
he made lucifer
who freely chose to become satan

This is judging God based on his own morality enshrined in the 10 Commandments.

God made Lucifer. Lucifer became evil. God made evil. It even states this in the bible. Everything created is because of God. Regardless of his direct or indirect influence. All of creation, both is bad and good, are because of him.

>God allows evil to exist in order to test our dedication, determination, and adoration of him.
This is why Christianity is a slave mentality, its all about controlling the mediocre masses. No wonder the Romans adopted it as a religion. Be a good boy, behave, don't question authority or the powerful here on earth, live a quiet life, make sure you reproduce to keep the game going. And if you have worshiped me properly, once you die you can do the same for all eternity!
Sounds like a supernatural North Korea.
Fuck off.

>Jupiter needs to test people
Then he isn't omniscient.
An omniscient god has no need for tests.

>Jupiter made Lucifer
Did he know that his creation would do evil?
If yes, then he knowingly created evil. If no, then he isn't omniscient.

It's okay to have a non-omniscient god.

Fucking retard.

First fucking sentence of Genesis, god creates time. Therefore god exists out of the bounds of time, as he had to create time to begin with he exists out of that scope.

Everything outside of this are merely parables about how to live your best life. God is not malevolent, but rather assuming god to work inside of our space time with the ability to identify vague terms like "good" and "evil" is both laughable and retarded.

If he doesn't interfere, then why pray to him? He already said he won't answer your prayers.

Evil is ignorance which means that God doesnt have all the knowledge.

Read Plato.

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>If he doesn't interfere, then why pray to him?

The same reason why "rubber duck" coding exists. Sometimes asking the question will illuminate the answer since he's endowed a bit of himself in all of his.

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Then they burn in Hell. This isn't complicated.

Humanity needs control. Without it, degenracy and niggery runs rampant. Cannot argue this. Yes, all religion is a form of control, but only because humans in general need something to control them. Sure, isolated cases dont, but as a herd, group, nation, more than a small community or pack, needs some typof religion to control the masses.

>Then they burn in Hell. This isn't complicated.

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>you are not allowed to hold god up to his own moral standards
I hate christcucks, I really fucking do

>Believing the historical truth of the Bible based on documented evidence from multiple people who gave their lives in order to tell the story
>Blind faith
Yeah, we're clearly the juvenile ones.
Anybody who uses the phrase "blind faith" needs to be gassed. It's the fedora equivalent of "homophobic."

God can know the outcomes of every choice you make, and still allow you to choose. That is still omniscient, omnipotent, etc etc.

Putting shit I don't believe into greentext and calling it a strawman is literally a strawman argument.

What I said works with most definitions of good and evil. For example, if you think pleasure = good and pain = evil, then the world God creates will be the world in which there is more pleasure over pain, on balance, than any other possible world. When I describe God as good, I mean morally perfect, i.e. always does whatever is the morally best course of action.
People think assessments of good and evil are subjective, but this is a mistake. A belief is the affirmation that a proposition is true. Every proposition is either true or false (by the law of excluded middle). So every belief is either true or false. So, every belief about good and evil is either true or false, and truth and falsity are not subjective. So facts about good and evil are not subjective.

Holy shit, every time I interact with atheists I can feel myself losing brain cells.

No, if God exists, He and He alone determines what is good or evil.

>Then from whence comes evil?
Man, after he ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. God did give him paradise and he rejected it for selfish desires

Jesus.
that image is perfect.
Oh wowowowow.
Thank you.

(^:

homosexuals should be burned alive at the stake
this would produce less suffering than allowing them to roam free and continue destroying Christian civilisation
all of the misery in the world is caused by chattering whores, sodomites and Christ killers, and by burning them at the stake and expelling them from our nations we will return to a golden age.

no he doesnt

he doesnt decide
else his judgements would be arbitrary/capricious

rather; what is good and evil is immutable as the standard to determine is His law which is manifest from His character which is as eternal and unchanging as He

He doesnt decide, He IS the decision

>Everything that exposes my incoherent ideology is [fedora]
Screaming that everything you don't like is racist/homophobic/fedora is not a sign of an accurate ideology.
Critics of your cult have well developed, consistent arguments. The response from cultists is always "RACIST!" "HOMOPHIC!" "FEDORA!!!" "BIGOT!!!"

Okay, well, if Jupiter knows exactly how everything will develop, then he is not testing anything.
Testing is only relevant if the outcome is unknown.

Epicurus's whole premise is based on a preconceived notion of evil, now you're demanding people who disagree with his premise define evil and claim it's all subjective anyway?

Thats not what Christ commanded be done with them.

The creator of the universe must necessarily exist outside of the universe. This is no way means he can't enter it. "Intellectuals" are really just searching for convoluted reasons to justify their hatred of God.