I was doing some research on the origins of the bulgars and found some conflicting results
I found some sources claiming the earliest documentation of them was found in Gansu China
Others claiming they came from the steppe near the Caspian Sea around Kazakhstan
And I have even found some sources saying they originated from an ancient Iranian kingdom named the Kingdom of Balkhara (and Wikipedia labels this idea as a fringe theory) and as they migrated the Balkharians mixed in with Mongols, Huns Magyars Yakuts and became Bulgars and that the word Bulgar means of “mixed origin”
Is this true?
what exactly were they?
Mongols?
Iranians?
And why is it so hard to find any info about any of this?
They're Balkan Slavs with some minor West Asian Admixture. Still basically White.
Camden Campbell
im not talking about the bulgarians im talking about the bulgars average bulgarian has less than 1% blood from the actual bulgars mostly south slav and thracian
Justin Thomas
Bulgars were turkic, but somehow they got cucked by Slavs AFTER conqering them. Truly a pathetic people
Julian Harris
they just ran out of people they were actually quite impressive fighters pic related bulgar leader beat the Byzantines and chopped of the emperors head and made a cup out of it
Joseph Watson
Nobody knows. When the first empire fell to Basil, he burned the biggest library in Bulgaria. When the second empire was falling, the turks also burned libraries. Just about everything we know of the bulgars and all of the Bulgarias is second hand information from.
Ryan Lopez
Google: autosomal DNA Bulgaria
Charles King
Some of the khans had iranic names like asparuh and omurtag, which is interesting
Anthony Hernandez
>so hard to find any info
As a nation Bulgarians have existed for a long time
But when Kubrat formed Bulgaria in Phanagoria we were neighboring the Khazar Khaganat with which we were at war
It's a very sensitive history for a certain group of long nosed people so they do everything in their power to prevent us from studying our history
Jeremiah Jackson
i read that khan asparuh's body was found in a river in ukraine and was moved to bulgaria to be layed to rest with the rest of bulgarian monarchs cant find a single pic of the body online though could you help get me sauce bulgarian?
Brandon Fisher
you would know since you guys ARE bulgarians after all still love u tho :)
"In 2007, Khan`s coffin was transported to Bulgaria and was buried in the church of Forty Martyrs of Sebaste. He was buried next to the rest of the Bulgarian kings."
if they found his coffin there should be bone fragments in there right? wonder why they havent done any dna testing . . .
Jaxon Walker
Our government doesn't care about history. I read years ago, about old Georgian documents referring to Bulgaria that need to be translated. But the government just isn't interested in paying millions for translating such information. They much rather spent money on welfare for gypsies and to bail out their companies when a crisis happens. It is what it is.
Joshua Jenkins
i feel greatly for your country my friend you have a mafia boss shill as your pm your royal family are shills who arent even bulgarian
you guys should do what viktor orban is doing
Nicholas Campbell
We must change a bit the mentality of the people
Before the commies we had similar views on firearms as the rest of the world at the time And due to the armed citizen the politicians were forced to respect the people
Right now commie mentality is deeply rooted into the old people and they go full cringe when a civilian owns the means not to be a victim to the mafia
We have very few sources for our history before the 7th century. It's all fairy-tale theories and modern foreign propaganda.
Wyatt Hughes
This
Owen Scott
what do you think they are user i mean they are in your blood somewhere
Angel Price
We don't have a royal family. That dynasty is 0% Bulgarian and had only two kings for ~50 years. Fuck them.
Noah Baker
I think they were a confederation that valued war more than writing down stuff about themselves.
Julian Jackson
their origins were turkic bzut now They are mostly Slavs. You know fighting for centuries in Balkans made its toll on them. Later slavic people came and mixed with rest of them. End of the story.
Kayden Richardson
>Later slavic people came and mixed with rest of them The Bulgars and the Slavs started their invasions in the Balkans at the same time. When the Bulgars moved permanently here the Slavs were already living here for centuries and were probably already Christianized. Two centuries later the Buglars got Slav'd, we don't know why. I personally suspect it's because the Bulgar elite thought that's the way to conquer and influence lots of lands, which was true.
Jordan Adams
We're mostly of Iranic Sarmatian origin and so are most of the so-called "South Slavs"
Christian Lee
you guys bleached them out of existence >:(
Daniel Allen
What we know is that they followed the Tengrism religion, nomadic people and were settled around the Volga people, we know who(as in tribes and khans) invaded Thrace and along the Danube where slav/thracian mixed people resided and mixed together with them and got absorbed, they called the country Bulgaria, that's all we know. Bulgarians are mostly mutts, but white nonetheless, we have a lot of blue eyed and green eyed, blonde even some redheaded peoples, however we also have some turkic admixture as well as Bulgar as defined by darker, ashy skin, wide eyes, brown/black hair and brown eyes. Pic related, famous boxer Kubrat Pulev(pic related). To be honest, our muttiness is way worse than Americans or Brazilians, however proving that mutt genes can be good if they are mainly white.
As for Bulgar origins, judging by their looks, which are Mongolic and Slavic like, most likely North Asia.
so what youre saying is the Balkhara theory is bullshit? keep in mind im nottalking about bulgarians just the bulgars
Tyler Harris
Slavs got deported to the north of the Dunabe at a very early point, the only reason we speak a Slavic language is because we got converted to Christianity by some Slavic scholars. The elite used that to create an empire, but the core of it or what is today's Bulgaria isn't racially Slavic. Modern Bulgarians don't resemble Poles, Czechs or Russians. The whole Slavic theory is just communist propaganda.
Anthony Flores
almost everyone north of subsahara is related to western and eastern steppe herders
the Bolghar themselves are closely related to the uyghurs in China (who have three fun terrorist organizations one of them wants a pan ottoman state under their rule) They're not popular with young people who have been infected with smartphones and internet and NEET culture offered by being a chinese national.
Asher Wilson
They are so closely related that they share the same language basically, despite thousands of miles between them.
Wyatt Scott
The modern consensus is that the Bulgars of Asparukh that invaded the Balkans lived along the Volga river in the north and spoke a Turkic language. Priscus and later sources tell us that the Huns ruled over territories along the Volga, furthermore we found Xiongnu-style cauldrons in the region. After the fall of the Hunnic Empire Ernakh, Attila's son, migrated with his tribes north and settled in what we could call Volga Bulgaria. After centuries the Huns started calling themselves Bulgars and came back to the Balkans, fucking shit up once more. It's not even a matter of discussion really, people who dispute Bulgaria's Turkic/Hunnic origins tend to be revisionists screeching at Russia for somehow falsifying their history (as if being able relate to the Xiongnu was something bad)
Jose Diaz
Every theory is based on primary sources that described different states/tribes than the ones of the authors. Meaning bulgarians themselves have no surviving records for their own origins but have to rely on what other kingdoms wrote about them as footnotes. Thus most theories placing their origin are lacking the means to be verified.
We must base our search from the things already known. Namely -the bulgarian state existed in southern ukraine in the beggining of the 7th century. Ruled by Kuber. The ruler has received his education in Constantinople and had a warm relations with the bauseleus. The bulgarian state itself was ruled by noble families holding allergens to the ruler. As far as the sources go - he was titled archon in the byzantine sources. The state was destroyed by Khazarians and fractured itself. The surviving noble families spread along with their underlings. Some founded the Volga Bulgaria, the others Bulgaria on the balkans.
Since Volga Bulgaria do not exist anymore I will concentrate on the Bulgaria proper.
As bulgarians moved in what is today southern romania, they enter an agreement with the byzantine empire. Most probably about assured support in exchange for border security. This arrangement failed and a war in 680 was started. The byzantine empire lost that one and the subsequent year 681, the peace treaty was signed is considered the founding date of bulgaria in it's (somewhat) present geographic location. With that war won bulgarians moved south of the Danube.
At that time the ethic makeup of the balkans was already in a flux. As the region was attacked in the last 150 years or so by different migratory tribes. It's original thracian makeup was dissolved, at least culturally and llatinised. It's people concentrated in city centers. The rural areas were inhabited by slavic tribes. The historic sources talk about "7 slavic tribes". Bulgarians ruled over that region.... cont/
Xavier White
Tengri means Heaven in mongolian Khaganats were strictly Taoist which is why Kubrat was given the title of Kessar which is only given to Christians the two religions were very similar
It is also stated that Christ spent decades traveling North before he came back to teach and it is likely that Christianity may be connected to what the Khaganats believed in.
Turks on the other hand being an immitation to the Khaganat living in their stans (meaning ranches like the cattle they were) considered Tengri as some sort of a deity to be worshipped
It is confused that Bulgarians were into paganism because of the ritual with the dog before battle but that was to discern if the young warriors were prepared for battle if they would turn their eyes before the gore they would be a shame for their clan and a waste of space in battle
Benjamin Diaz
Everything is scythians lmao
Henry Flores
>consensus There isn't a consensus, SLAVeshit None of the theories about Altai, Volga, Balhara etc. have any actual evidence to support them. The only thing that is known for certain is that the first Bulgarian state was around the Crimean peninsula. And btw, almost all of the names of the Bulgarian khans are Iranic in origin.
Noah Taylor
Turkish is butchered dialect of Mongolian
Luis Harris
Can you go more into the dog one? Is it like the dog spinning or just murdering of the animal?
Christian Richardson
for a lack of better grouping, scythians were already diverse as fuck and in many cases included their relatives who belonged to different federations since the finding of all female warlord burial places of the scythians, the theory about the kentaur and amazon scythians has become more popular again, both were described contemporary by very distinct riding styles that showed a lack of stirrup and bridle which also has been described by others, at some point it must have been merged into it's horse people and women warriors they just lived a relatively uncommon form of tribal gender segregation as developed independent of each other in many semi nomadic and nomadic people over the past thousands of years
Joshua James
Can I have a link about the dog ritual? I’m intrigued user
Ethan Edwards
Another theory linking the Bulgars to a Turkic people of Inner Asia has been put forward by Boris Simeonov, who identified them with the Pugu (僕骨; buk/buok kwət; Buqut), a Tiele and/or Toquz Oguz tribe.[34][35] The Pugu were mentioned in Chinese sources from 103 BC up to the 8th century AD,[35] and later were situated among the eastern Tiele tribes, as one of the highest-ranking tribes after the Uyghurs.[34] According to the Chronicle by Michael the Syrian, which comprises several historical events of different age into one story, three mythical Scythian brothers set out on a journey from the mountain Imaon (Tian Shan) in Asia and reached the river Tanais (Don), the country of the Alans called Barsalia, which would be later inhabited by the Bulgars and the Pugurs (Puguraje).[36]
there is also linguistic and DNA shit supporting this argument doesn't mean we know where they came from, just where they were and how far they spread and far away the chinese uyghurs settled from the bolghar
In the past the historian who is also the spiritual leader of the nation would put a dog before everyone and would open it up and play with it's innards while looking at the warriors
This is done before battle to discern the outcome of the battle
It is also said that normally this would be done to a human but because of a belief that if humans lead a miserable life they will turn into lower forms such as dogs. I doubt they ever did this to humans but this is a good way to inject a phylosophy into would be warriors so as to never kneel towards an opressor
Liam Rodriguez
Krum made human and animal sacrifices outside the Constantinople walls (according to the Byzantines).
The dog one that user saw in a movie.
Carter Cook
>Nooooooo we wuzn't Turkics! Fucking Soviets lying about our history again! Altaic language family is no longer considered a valid theory by serious scholars, Mongolics and Turkics just happened to cohabit their lands for so long that their languages became similar Some Hunnic names offer Mongolic etymology, but vast majority is traced to Oguric Turkic.
The nominalia of Bulgarian khans says that Avitohol( most likely Atilla ) and his son Ernach were the first Khans, which might mean that medieval Bulgarians they saw Attila as their ancestors.
The ethno-genesis of the modern bulgarians is disputed. As it's constituent based population described as slavs/bulgarians/thracians are not know for their proportions. It is showing the language adopted was slavic. Thus many (especially during commie times) theories consider bulgarians to be mostly slavic. That being said, some alternative explanations float about.The nomad (turkic) origin comes to mind. However even the old bulgaria had cities and trade. This bulgarians were not pure nomads. The first victory over byzantium was partly because of a massive earth fortification known as the "ongal". Thus if bulgarians had nomadic roots, they were largely seditentry at the time, they came to the balkans.
Haplogroup wise, we have a pretty even mix of slavic/balkanic/danubian origin.
All in all I have no idea what is our definitive origin, as most nations that came from the chaos of the great migration. What I do know is we are more close to the macedonians and serbs for example than to the greeks.
Cameron Roberts
So, guys who visit gore threads, would be good warriors? According to muh ancestors of course.
Bulgars = Bolgars = Migratory people who migrated here from the Volga river. Upon their arrival they murdered Christian Thracians. Basil II the Bulgar Slayer defeated and killed them off, leaving alive a handful of noblemen who had their eyes plucked out.
The vid is 28mins long but I don't want you to watch all of it.
If you are interested then the best is to watch from 3:00min to 7:00min. Four minutes only.
But If you don't want to watch the 4 mins. I will point you to the best parts.
at 3:16 >in their essays based on general European history wrote that the Bulgarians are Turkic by origin
at 3:23 >which means they came here from Mongolia, eastern Siberia, the Altaic lowlands.
at 3:36 >The Turkic people, as you know, belong to the Asian Mongoloid race with epicanthic fold, they still live there.
at 3:45 >The Bulgarians are not like them, if we look at each other this is obvious.
at 6:11 >Our native land isn't Mongolia, neither the Altai lowlands nor eastern Siberia
at 6:17 >but it is in the lands of the Iranic community
at 6:23 >localized eastern of the Caspian sea and eastern of nowadays Iran.
at 6:31 >The Iranic community was huge but the country Iran today
at 6:36 >comprises less territory than the Iranic tribes inhabited.
at 6:45 >This is our native land called Balhara
Robert Diaz
>isn't interested in paying millions for translating such information Just find a Georgian who will do it for free. The government is right, why would they pay MILLIONS for a fucking translation?
Brayden Gonzalez
Turkic is people that speak language. And being a Turk in middle ages was about tribal confideracy.
The original Turkic people are East-Asian looking like Mongolians. They originate from Mongolia and Manchuria.
The Bulgarians do not have East Easian features, they have Caucasian features because they are originaly Iranic and today they are mix with some Nordics.
thats why i posted this thread in the first place i thought they were mongolians and the guy claims they came from iran
Leo Perez
Why would they be mongolians?
Nicholas Ross
it made sense to me i watched another video about them it said the word "bulgar" meant mixed origin and the they came from the tartar tribe who killed gengeis khans dad
Ryan Turner
What book is this, it's fascinating?
Samuel Gutierrez
The Volga bulgars are bastards who converted to shitslam and they did kill Ghengiz Khan who was a cool guy
>mixed origin >bastards lost in translation
Brody Reed
the Balhara theory was listed as a "fringe theory" on wikipedia and its only official references were this weird indian websites
it's a tribe that separated long before the current Bulgaria formed they were vassals to the khazars and went far north
Ian Brown
Well, ok. The most important thing you need to remember is that we know close nothing about the Bulgars and 99% of things you'll hear are assumptions. Hostile nations like the other Balkanshits and Russia have retarded propaganda about the Bulgars, some of which is parroted even by Bulgarians becaseu they know what they were taught in history textbooks (written in Moscow).
Jonathan Wright
Their name derive from Balhara, a please located in the Eastern region of the Iranian plateau.
Bulg-Arya/Bulg-Aryan.
The name says it all.
Austin Roberts
Thracians have been extinct centuries before the Bulgarians arrived, dumb gypsy
David Cruz
ngl id be pretty bad ass if you guys murdered khans daddy
Matthew Gray
Weather they from that exact location or not is irrelevante since the map of Iranic people clearly reaches the Balkans.
See map here
Tyler Diaz
...
Landon Gomez
Yes, nomadic confederations tend to be extremely heterogeneous, but it doesn't mean that modern Turkic people inhabiting Central Asia are Scythians that turkicized. The Huns were the first confirmed wave of Turkic peoples and while they had a prominent Alanic (Sarmatian) element, they still absolutely slaughtered their way on the steppes and made sure Iranian nomads never rise again. By the time Kubrat creates Great Bulgaria/Onoguria the only surviving steppe Iranics are Alanic Khazar slaves near Caucasus It's "The Huns" by Hyun Jin Kim He's a huge Hunnic shill so take some of his more outrageous claims about Hunnic influence on feudalism with a grain of salt, but nevertheless he kills the idea of Huns being a mere nuisance
