The destiny of Europeans is out there amongst the stars. dont forget, the vast majority of everyone on earth is too poor to engage in space travel.
There is a lot of struggle ahead of us. But no matter what, as long as we can give our numbers a boost and hold out just a little bit longer, it doesn't matter how fucked our countries become, we will have a future beyond earth and WE WILL survive.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best. No one here is advocating that we abandon earth to the brown horde without a fight, simply /etm/ is about recognizing that we must consider the possibility of our future elsewhere. Either we win here and are able to spread outwards and cause our civilization to undergo a rebirth or we will at least be prepared enough to have /ourguys/ out there to increase the chance of our survival in the long haul.
Welcome to /etm/. This is a place on Yas Forums to discuss everything space related. I normally post the general once a week every saturday between 8pm to 10pm UK time. Please try to ignore the flat-earth fags.
If you are new here, these videos will get you in the mood for some discussion: >What Would A Million Person Mars Colony Look Like? youtube.com/watch?v=JaimO7nvzzQ
>Recommended Reading Project MARS: A Technical Tale, by Wernher von Braun The Case For Mars, Robert Zubrin. The High Frontier by Gerard O'Neill. Colonies in Space, by T. A. Heppenheimer. Rocket Propulsion Elements, Sutton. Aerothermodynamics of Gas Turbine and Rocket Propulsion, Gordon Coates. Space Mission Engineering, the new SMAD, Wiley, ed. Fundamentals of Astrodynamics, Bates, etc. International Reference Guide to Space Launch Systems, Steve Isakowitz. Mining the Sky, John Lewis. Rain of Iron and Ice, John Lewis. We Seven: By the Astronauts Themselves. Voices from the Moon, Andrew Chaikin. The Millennial Project, Marshall Savage. Modern Engineering for Design of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines, David H. Huang. Mars trilogy, Kim Robinson The Martian Way, Isaac Asimov Foundation Trilogy, Isaac Asimov The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, Heinlein Roving Mars, Steve Squyres The Heavens and the Earth, A Political History of the Space Age, Walter A. McDougall Solar Sails: A Novel Approach to Interplanetary Travel, Giovanni Vulpetti, Gregory L. Matloff, and Les Johnson Spacesuit: Fashioning Apollo, Nicholas de Monchaux
>the vast majority of everyone on earth is too poor to engage in space travel
Interesting, it's only just occurred to me the implications of this. If Europeans act accordingly it could mean we ensure a growing population of our people outside of earth that the other races will struggle to compete with.
Alexander Robinson
>If Europeans act accordingly it could mean we ensure a growing population of our people outside of earth that the other races will struggle to compete with.
Exactly. Helping Yas Forums realise this is one of the main reasons I started /etm/ in the first place. The 14 Words does not specify where or when our survival is to take place; only that it must.
Bentley Thompson
>The 14 Words does not specify where or when our survival is to take place; only that it must.
Good point. This is quotable. Have a bump!
Wyatt Edwards
thanks for the bump. i dont usually post /etm/ on weekdays. hopefully the thread picks up
Kayden Williams
Space is fake you stupid nigger, we can’t leave the firmament
Carter Bennett
Bump, we'll go there eventually. It has been just delayed by kung flu. 10k trained engineers up there can terraform Mars fully in 150 years.
Yeah. I would be interested to know just how much CV has postponed future missions. I don't think Musk or anyone else has specifically said over the past month how damaged their ambitions have been, if at all.
Jacob Scott
I doubt the missions have been too effected. Maybe there are some economic implications
Mason Torres
>The 14 Words does not specify where or when our survival is to take place; only that it must.
May I recommend Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy? Pretty decent hard sci-fi, dealing with issues with terraforming the landscape and political fallout. Tech level is slightly higher than what we have but not too implausibly so, at least initially.
Gavin Stewart
Well terraforming was never going to be easy in the first place. Establishing ourselves there is far more important. Elon spoke about nuking the Martian ice caps to kick start the terraforming process but it seems to mostly be a joke.
Grayson Nelson
Already suggested here :)
Lucas Sanders
>Establishing ourselves there is far more important
Yes but max pop is capped until we can grow some kind of algae or crops outside to eat...
Hudson Green
>nuking the Martian ice caps
Yes it was a joke 99.9%
Bentley Scott
we can grow the crops inside if we can find a way to cure small amounts of toxicity in Martian soil, I suppose. I can't remember the exact problems regarding this
Jayden Martin
why go to mars when the magnetic poles are about to be flipped by a catastrophic micro nova of the sun? like 90% of people on the surface of the earth will die.
If you see the moon go red and the sun go bright you have 24-48 hours or so to get underground and i hope you have supplies.
Yeah, I'd agree. Some good sci-fi, although it's quite commie - still a fun read
Christian Harris
Can someone please remake this in higher quality!
Mason Sanders
That dream is deader than fuck. We'll be lucky if the government lets us out of our houses at all this year. They're going to confiscate Elon's little rockets and melt them down to make ventilators and apartment door barricades.
Ethan Thomas
maybe there is a way to reduce the soil to it's chemical components, separate them, and then recombine them in an ISRU type reactor.
Liam James
continued...
I just checked the material properties of chlorine and sulpher trioxide, and it looks like heating the soil to approx 114 degrees Fahrenheit will cause both materials to vaporize, which could then be collected as a gas.... that temperature is low enough to keep the water in place, if any.
Ayden Jackson
It seems that digging into the surface for habitation would be better than living on the surface... dig deep enough so the rock will support the structure, like in Turkey, and just put a sealed door at the entrance... pressurize...
using the tech from the Pais and US Naval patent for the high energy electromagnetic field generator one can produce a constant 1-g thrust for extended periods of time...
not like rocket engines which only accelerate for minutes throughout the entire flight time...
this will reduce round trip flight time to days...
Yeah it's an easy fix. Just a simple solar concentrator will do it. It's just a step you'd need to do wherever you're planting crops. Not a big deal.
Joseph Jones
>Just a simple solar concentrator will do it.
you'd probably want a little more precise control over the temperature, to assure that other materials aren't "boiled off" that might be nessecary.
also, solar power at mars orbit is far less than at earths orbit. the martian atmosphere is thinner, so you'd get less reduction in solar power from pushing it through the atmosphere, but you'd still need something like 4-5 times the collector area for the same amount of power you'd get on earth.
Ryder Nguyen
OP here. I'm out getting my daily exercise. I'll be back soon.
Lucas Evans
>It seems that digging into the surface for habitation would be better than living on the surface..
We won't have much of choice in the beginning, but yes considering the protection provided against radiation from living underground, subterranean habitation is pretty much guaranteed to happen.
Eli Hill
>we can grow the crops inside
It costs too much if pop > 100
Leo Bennett
I second this
Carter White
ONWARDS AND UPWARDS
Nathaniel Wright
>It costs too much if pop > 100
costs too much compared to what?
shipping your food in from earth?
growing crops indoors on mars IS the cheapest option. because it's the ONLY option.
Landon Phillips
>shipping your food in from earth?
Well we'd still have to send them supplies in the early days but yes it's ridiculous in every way imaginable to rely on launches from earth to Mars solely to keep people alive
Michael Garcia
Bump
Kayden Perry
I'm sure that a very specific assortment of plants could cover all basic nutritional needs of the human body, and the easiest to make plants for each specific type of nutrient could also be found, perhaps reducing the total size of the necessary greenhouse, by creating a sort of "herb garden" for specific nutrients, vitamins, etc...
technically, the earth is a closed biosphere, and recycles everything, if we can replicate this process on a smaller scale and make it stable, we'd have our food needs met without importing it from earth.
also, plants grow faster in higher CO2 concentrations, which mars has no shortage of. lighting might be a problem, as the light from the sun that reaches mars is less than what reaches earth, so photosynthesis will have to be assisted using artificial illumination sources. I designed one for just this purpose.
Eli Lewis
>I designed one for just this purpose.
wouldn't standard lighting used in most indoor growing be enough? weed growers use them all the time
Brayden Martin
you are taking brexit a little too far m8
Ethan Cruz
>wouldn't standard lighting used in most indoor growing be enough?
The LED's output only the frequencies of light that photosynthesis uses. thereby saving a LOT of energy.
>not practical if the mission lasts more than 10 years
I wasn't aware that it could be practical for that long.
but at any rate, a supplemental garden could be used to offset imported rations, at least until you can build out a larger area for crops and become completely self sufficient.
how difficult do you think it would be to seal off sections of a lava tube, to make it airtight?
Levi Sullivan
>a supplemental garden could be used to offset imported rations
yes if the garden produces 95% of food
David Reyes
>seal off sections of a lava tube, to make it airtight?
not too hard with a multilayer of polymer reinforced concrete
I think I read somewhere that NASA determined you would need 7 tons of plant matter (the green parts) to supply the breathing air for one person.
Josiah Miller
Heyooooooooooo how's a thread up on Thursday? Missed the last two months of etm threads, always forgot about it saturdays because I've had a very busy few months with university. (and work on rocket is on hold until that is done)
Ryder Rogers
Hello m8. I decided to make one today... First weekday thread in a while
Carter Ross
How's everything going with university
Angel Jones
>7 tons of plant matter
that's a lot 0_0
Jayden Adams
Too busy to work on anything not uni related in like 3 weeks. I'm hoping to power through it so that I can get back on track with the project, since I've found some pretty nice ways to make it cheaper and yet more powerful. Team is pretty much broken up, I'll have to figure out how to pick up the pieces, but I'm confident.
