>The only code of ethics that would truly protect freedom would be one that prohibited ANY genetic engineering of human beings, and you can be sure that no such code will ever be applied in a technological society. No code that reduced genetic engineering to a minor role could stand up for long, because the temptation presented by the immense power of biotechnology would be irresistible, especially since to the majority of people many of its applications will seem obviously and unequivocally good (eliminating physical and mental disease, giving people the abilities they need to get along in today’s world). Inevitably, genetic engineering will be used extensively, but only in ways consistent with the needs of the industrial-technological system. - Technological Slavery (p 75) >Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct. - Technological Slavery (p 94)
His plan might not have been the strongest in the world, but his analysis is solid.
Gabriel James
have you even read his books? he wants to go back to hunter-gatherer, not decentralized farming.
Jacob Parker
I honestly believe that computers and information technology will have much worse effects than any genetic engineering. The former dramatically changes our relationship with the world and each other, while designer babies just improve the physical self.
He wants to go back to whatever comes to existence after post-collapse. There is no central authority post-collapse who will tell you what to do.
People will get by with the lifestyle that they are able to survive and thrive on.
Ryder Gomez
>He wants to go back to whatever comes to existence after post-collapse you won't be alive because nuclear power plants across the world will be unmanned or poorly manned. it will result in continuous radiation across the globe. there's also the nuclear weapons to consider.
>There is no central authority post-collapse who will tell you what to do. there will be another authority and you will fall under its set of rules. somalia is a shithole but that doesn't mean that zones of control don't exist. there is no such thing as anarchy. other groups with their own rules will form.
i think we're too far gone to return to any sort of preindustrial lifestyle and sense of social cohesion. even today you look around and people are fighting over bog roll.
Cooper Phillips
Disagree. In the last thread I made the following claims, paraphrasing. >transhumanism (TH+) remains a threat to natural humans so long it is merely better than humans but not radically different >TH+ that becomes digital will acquire different goals and different resource needs from real humans, this will diminish conflict Genetically engineered ubermensch that are only slightly different to us will have the same needs as us but outcompete us.
In paragraph 182 of ISAIF, Ted makes it clear that anti-tech revolutionaries have no illusions -unlike the Bolsheviks or the French revolutionaries of 1789- of creating a 'new ideal society'.
The anti-tech revolutionaries have one very clear advantage over all other revolutionary movements of the past: the anti-tech revolution has as a goal only to destroy the current technological civilization, without any pretentions or plans regarding what may come after such destruction.
it doesn't promise anything to the masses, unlike other movements. his proposed trade is dental care and 24/7 food availability for shitting in the irradiated woods. imo a better option is separatism.
Sebastian Brooks
Even assuming a world wide collapse, here is what I think would happen. > local militias would take over pretty much everywhere > ammo, fuel, medicine and such would be requisitioned and stockpilled > most people would die or be constrained into manual labor > armed men would still have radiocommunications and motor vehicles > local fiefdoms would quickly coalesce into big politias racing against each other to re-industrialize > industrial society is back after 3 or 4 decades of living hell Thoughts?
Colton Davis
>Hi, was waiting for you! The real MVP of TKG.
Good to see you too brother, had no doubt at all you'd be here. Thank you for the honorary title. If all goes well, the 'new blood' we've been talking about will certainly -hopefully- steal it away right quick!
Obviously, (almost needless to say, lol), been updating the FAQ, last thread was very fruitful, was able to go thru it carefully earlier today, so many questions answered.
Eventually the tech will be so cheap the government won't be able to control access to it, even if they wanted to. Their mandatory population control measures will be effective, but there will still be outlaws who birth underground unregistered children. In this world a new form of enforcer will roam the world, a "Blade Runner" if you will, tasked with hunting down unauthorized lifeforms.
>his proposed trade is dental care and 24/7 food availability for shitting in the irradiated woods.
Fucking epic criticism, lol!
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On a more serious note, this was actually addressd in a previous thread (God only knows which one):
This is perhaps the first revolutionary situation in which the immediate consequences of a succesful outcome for the revolution is actually much 'worse' living conditions than before the revolutionary moment.
>There is no central authority post-collapse who will tell you what to do. >there is no such thing as anarchy. other groups with their own rules will form.
>Obviously, (almost needless to say, lol), been updating the FAQ, last thread was very fruitful, was able to go thru it carefully earlier today, so many questions answered.
Good to hear that! We're here if you need additional help, Argie.
Justin Brooks
I understand your train of thought but don't think that's how it would go down. The proles of a tranhumanist world might be easy to satisfy with bugs and screens and production of such wouldn't necessarily conflict with homesteaders. But the elite of such a world will have every incentive to squash dissent.
Plus, what makes you think me and my family wouldn't be part of the ubermensch?
Camden Cooper
Im going to stop you at >Even assuming a world wide collapse HOW long does this collapse take? What on earth could cause a world wide collapse overnight?
But we cannot make the solar storm happens or the Yellowstone erupts. Plus, how strong would the solar storm had to be to fuck up entirely the whole infrastructure up to the last radio and how likely is it to happen in a near future?
Henry Morales
Wow, the digits are on my side
Dominic Garcia
Hello, the other finn dropping by really quick, missed a ton of threads I see, forgot to set that alarm. When where we supposed to gather around the proverbial campfire?
I'm extremely busy today too so I won't contribute anything, but will follow with interest on progress.
>you won't be alive because nuclear power plants across the world will be unmanned Not even Chernobyl depopulated Kiev. Not everyone lives with 100 miles of a nuclear power plant.
>there will be another authority and you will fall under its set of rules. I'm pretty confident I explicitly said CENTRAL authority. Even kings in Middle-Ages were pretty powerless to influence things in distant villages.
No central government will be there to tell people if they have to be hunter-gatherers or farmers. People will do what they have to do for survival. Somalia is no good example as it's not a pre-Industrial society; for all of its faults, it's still a modern country with high amounts of tribalism.
Anthony Watson
The solar storm of 1859. was moderate in strength, but still devastating. If the one of same intensity were to happen, it would most certainly throw us at least two centuries back in tech development.
Eli Hughes
Keep 'em coming.
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There is a meme-making phase incoming any day now to /TKG/. You might want to be around for that. Just sayin'....
It has been 2PM EST every day for now, so 20:00 Finnish time.
Robert Reyes
Why do I love pictures of urban decay?
Kevin Brooks
You’re assuming a collapse is a sudden event. You’re skirting the details of collapse. Even ignoring the details of your collapse, why would you think those with ammo and radio comm. would have that forever? Ammo runs out and electronics eventually fail, which factory are they going to in order to get the spare parts they need? You don’t even begin to outline how the survivors will get the next industrial revolution going.
Andrew Martin
look at all that venison
there's a feeling of catharsis associated with ruins - perhaps that of knowing you survive where others didn't
1859 would destroy the infrastructures but not every single piece of equipment. A really devastating solar storm is possible but not something we can bet on
Jeremiah Morris
Guys, I've read in a survivalist book about Electro Magnetic Flux Compression Generators.
Accordong to the book, they can be made very easily. All you need are copper pipe, explosive and a copper wire under voltage. The explosion creates a shitload of EMP and can fuck up any electric device nearby.
How do we use this knowledge to our advantage, /tkg/?
Eli Evans
>Why are you asking me this? Not sure what answers you are after I ain't sure of the answers either, but you did ask "Thoughts?" and personally I'm more in the boat of "were already collapsing, it's just fucking slow, uneventful and boring, for the most part" I'd argue were one of the first generations which starts to see the ripples of this slow screech to a halt. Early adaptors, if you wil. I believe, that when our economy is based pretty much of abstraction, the financial sector will start producing basically what's economical toxic waste, and thus eats itself. An example, the small/mini house movement. I'd argue, having seriously considered this myself, that it exists mostly because it's an option to a real house, and why is it even considered as an option to a real house? My reasoning was that it's a shittier option in all honesty, but our economic sector is kinda shitty too so I'd rather not chain myself to a 40 year mortage. And this is just one example.
>ammunition won't last forever Reloading is a thing and projectiles are fairly easy to cast yourself. >which factory are they going to in order to get spare parts Both people with the knowledge needed for that kind of thing, along with the required machinery, aren't going to magically vanish.
Now I'm a bit confused of who's who. I came around thread number three if I recall correct. Shilled David Jonstad's Kollaps, with some I think danish guy? Don't get me wrong, it's not as if I enjoy having the munipiciality determine which colour I can paint my house, but no, I'm no anarchist I guess. A vacuum tends to want to fill up.
>but don't think that's how it would go down. Of course it will always be pure speculation only before it actually happens. Never know how it will know do beforehand.
>what makes you think me and my family wouldn't be part of the ubermensch? You mean you're going to get genetically engineered? I'm pretty sure nobody outside the inner circle of elites will have both free will and elite artificial genetics.
Tyler Diaz
I'm actually pretty disgusted by most pictures of urban decay. They show a moral failing of neglecting things that have been built, or just deliberate vandalism.
But nature reclaiming its land is pretty aesthetic. I love seeing old wooden barns rotting and collapsing because you know that stuff will biodegrade and eventually be unnoticeable.
Where will you get the material and the machines to make ammunition? If you get them, how long before they break? Where will you get parts for this machine? The supply chain is complicated enough today that a single point of failure will make manufacturing extremely difficult. You are assuming that, post-collapse, you would be able to keep the machine running (which is not much of a collapse). To your point about specialists being able to keep it going: They will invariably not be an expert in every single aspect of the production of any product. Even something relatively simple in structure becomes complicated to manufacture when you have to source each and every material and eventually put it all together into a whole. It’s all too vague and hopeful (from a nerd’s standpoint)
Joshua Parker
>Here is our 5 step plan posting in a glownigger psyop
Jace Bailey
I find it oddly enticing - the idea of a world without humans and cities being reclaimed by vegetation and fauna. Maybe I've played too many vydia, but such places are lovely to explore.
I'd say /tkg/ is right in some of the points about technology being destructive to human nature - but it is simply unrealistic to expect technology to be extinguished. How do you people envision putting the genie back in the bottle?
>Not even Chernobyl depopulated Kiev. Not everyone lives with 100 miles of a nuclear power plant. they contained the radiation. this will not happen if everything collapses. you will be under one group's authority. it doesn't matter if you escape today's authority.
Ryder Walker
Argent user thinks you are me, at least he did.
Jeremiah Martin
To sum up my personal view on the matter No. Doable, but different, and the volumes and quality would be nowhere close to what you can churn out industrially, but it's doable.
> You’re assuming a collapse is a sudden event. Not Ted is assuming this. It advocates for the destruction to happens as fast as possible to not let any chance for it to be reversible. Non-sudden collapse seems even less likely to happens.
> You’re skirting the details of collapse. I could have written a novel maybe but I went for the concise version. It's not like I can predict precisely what will happen everywhere, it's just seems to be the likely outline.
> which factory are they going to in order to get the spare parts they need? These people will be a small armed minority and rely on only a few vital utilities. They can scavenge decades worth of spare parts to keep their radio emitter functioning. It's not THAT hightech.
> You don’t even begin to outline how the survivors will get the next industrial revolution going. Once the fiefdoms have stabilized and established working relationship with their neighbors (let's say, after 10-15 years) they would start thinking about replenishing their non-renewable resources. They would start trying to start back power plants and factories. There would be a big incentive for each politia to be the first one raising up infrastructures again and they would know what to look for.
