Lock-down an entire country economy to save some uber-octagenarians, which
>receive large pensions (more money than they actually contributed to)
>are a drain on the public health care system (majority of hospitalisations are old people with chronic diseases)
>aren't vital for the economy of the country
What's the end game?
Thousands of italian boomers die of respiratory diseases every year
Force:
>privacy invasive measures
>the need for immigrants (hole left by dead people)
>economic domination by China
The bongs forced their elderly in isolation instead.
because we have LOT of elders, and if this huge amount of people all goes into ICU, italy is mamma mia
we could force isolate them, but that's not really happening in a democracy
the thing is not really about saving people, it's trying to hospitalize every one who will eventually die, that's the sad thing
Cringe
Just let them fucking die.
Jesus. It's not hard. If they're over 70, they don't get a respirator. They can go die at home as nature intended.
Fear for lizards
Cringe
IL.SORPASSO.....
>we could force isolate them, but that's not really happening in a democracy
And yet we are. Forced in our homes.
Forbid Hydroxychloroquine to sell Bill Gate´s vaccines
Nooo, we lost our primate. Btw, you should look the cases per 10k or 1k inhabitants. US has a bigger population than Italy. And China has a bigger population than US.
Lets ignore all the consequences it'd have in economy and healtcare and lets ignore that it kills tons of ppl in their 40's, 50's, 60's which most if then are still fathers and mothers which are providing for their families
Idc about their age, i wouldnt let my conationals die in mass. Ppl that worked their whole life for my country and gave their contribution to it
But u a loser beta made bitter by a life of being bullied and emarginated yea id kill u no problems
>kills tons of ppl in their 40's, 50's, 60's
It doesn't user. Percentages are inversely correlated to the age, and directly linked to comorbidities. Also, are you ok? >But u a loser beta made bitter by a life of being bullied and emarginated yea id kill u no problems
You seem salty. I think OP made only a consideration.
Probably user is projecting. You know, the typical terrone living on neetbuxs.
About 2-3% of males in their 50s is not a lot?
It means about 1/50 families would lose a father that is most probably working
Looks good bro
The average age of the people who die is 80,5 years old.
80 Year olds have a 6% chance of dying this year. with the Covid-19 they have an 18% chance of dying. Meaning they will lose on average 2 extra years, this year.
Meanwhile this lock down requires normal people to give up large parts of their live for 1,5-2 years (that is of the total population). Besides that there is a strong correlation between poverty and mortality.
It would make more sense to isolate the elderly and build up a herd immunity. If the risk groups isolate, we would only need minimal measures to not overburden the healthcare system.
Neither option is perfect.
U got defensive abt the loser beta line
Show ur faces
Damn dude, are you ok? Are you sperging out because of the quarantine? Have you Corona and you have became a schizo?
Average age of 80 doesnt mean it doesnt kill tons of useful younger ppl
Most of them have underlying health conditions tho, and it is much easier to isolate them than to lock down a country.
3rd passive aggressive triggered beta male
This is the CFR not actual mortality rate, about 1/5- 1/10 cases are actually detected. I am not saying we should let them die, we should just isolate them. Once 70% of the population has been infected, there will be no big outbreaks anymore.
octogenarians vote, and there are a ton of them. So essentially any move by a politician to protect them is just self-serving.
Be the hero your country needs and lead a youth revolution to purge the old and the infirm.
And lose your fertility in the process
I don’t wanna be that guy, but this virus is god-sent for retirement funds around the world.
What? I am seriously worried about your mental health user. You are angry to some dudes over the Internet. It's not normal. Besides you seems to much emotional, and you lack a proper dictionary other than "cringe", "beta", and "passive aggressive". Would surprise me if you indeed are an incel. Remember, it's Yas Forums.
And the teeth of capitalism are shown
>just let people die to SAVE US MONEY
>money is far more important than those useless old people!
God man it is really fucking hard to remain to my capitalist ideology the more I read posts like yours.
The end game is to save the fucking lives of people's loved ones you fucking soulless mime
>SCMP
>Research not conclusive.
kek ok.
Most of them have irrelevant underlying health conditions
Lockdown is barely effective with everyone locked down, let alone if 30-40% of the population was free to go around
But user, how will ever recover the monopoly money that we don't even need to print?
>find cases where survivors have half of the normal amount of testosterone
>it is known that SARS attacks the testies
More research is needed but you would be retarded to risk getting the disease before we know more
I don't doubt it, but it's a trade off. Analyse it by an Italian standpoint. If you save all the oldies you risk to crash the not so healthy Italian economy and generate even more despair. Life's hard. Sometimes you have to take a choice. I guess it's a matter of the lesser evil.
U can only guess how much cases are undetected, and the older the age, the more the detected cases are since there will be way less asymptomatics
Real death rate is 0,2%
Cringe beta essay kys nerd
>who tested positive for the coronavirus and were hospitalised in January.
So this is not even the normal population, most young people don't require hospitalization, what are the confounding variables here?
>Lockdown is barely effective with everyone locked down
If they want to risk their own live it is up to them, the reason the lock down is ineffective is because you lock down people who have virtually no risk. So you hurt the economy and your measures aren't even working.
Zaia wants to buy tracking tech from israel.
The first maybe.
The second definitely won't work, as this will lead to a rise in xenophobia, tight border controls, an end to globalism and anti-Chinese political movements.
This is all over the world too, not just Italy.
Expect a resurgence of Italian fascism.
Economies recover, people don't come back from the dead
>U can only guess how much cases are undetected,
True i have made some models tho, but if you look at Korea they have a CFR of 0.8% which is much more realistic than the numbers we see in the west. Why? Because they have their outbreak under control, and they test alot.
>most young people don't require hospitalization
Italy isnt even admitting any people above 60 into the hospital anymore so we can assume that most of the hospital beds are (or will be) taken by
>Economies recover,
Not true, your means of production need constant upkeep, if you have no income your capital will decline.
But if the purpose is to protect the caretaker of families, how can u allow younger family members to go out freely and not expecy every single family infected
Shut the fuck up faggot.
Many people can't grasp the concept that normal people love their elderly.
Maybe is because they weren't loved back in their youth.
Sad
How many people losing their jobs is an acceptable cost to save one life? 10? 100? 1,000? More?
The economy shutting down doesn't mean everyone takes a vacation. It means millions of people who don't have significant savings lose their jobs. The government just passed the largest stimulus bill in history, and it provisions $1,200 for most americans. That's better than nothing. But the average mortgage payment in the US is $1,030. So Unless congress is willing to pass a series of packages, what they are sending out won’t cover the cost of housing for more than a month for the average American. Add onto that car loans, insurance, student debt, food, and utilities, and the picture quickly becomes grim for anyone who is losing work hours or their job as a result of this crisis.
You are potentially creating tens of millions of desperate, unemployed people who will latch onto the next political movement who promises to help them and actually means it. Trump did this to some degree. Hitler did it to a much, much greater degree.
Moral decision making means making difficult choices. Saving lives "no matter the cost" has the potential to send the world into a global depression the likes of which we've never seen. If that happens, war and famine will follow. Just remember, if we do get to that point, you wanted to stop the virus no matter the cost.
South korea has a way younger average age of infected compared to Italy
Tell me irl and i bash ur beta face nerd
South Korea has a younger population than Italy
>They said their results were not conclusive and the blood samples were not direct proof of reproductive problems with Covid-19 patients.
Who cares you only need to reproduce to the age of 40, if you have a hormon problem you can take some extra testosterone.
>we can assume that most of the hospital beds are (or will be) taken by
I love and pray for Italy. Be safe Italy bros
People dies even in economic depressions or recessions. Suicides. Plus you have high stress and increase dysfunctionality in poorer families. Moreover poor people tend to be more ill, so you'll increase illnesses in the long term. From (especially) mental ones, to chronic diseases for a variety of factors.
Lockdown in Italy is in its third week if I am correct. What is the next step? Here in Canada (Québec), we just start a three week lockdown period.
I can't see it's possible to contain the virus without everyone required to wear a face mask.
U cant compare the numbers low iq
>They said their results were not conclusive and the blood samples were not direct proof of reproductive problems with Covid-19 patients.
>SARS casues testies damage
>theres an indication that Covid-19 maybe does to
>more research needed
>Because most hospitalized patients are young, does not mean that most young people need to be hospitalized.
We seriously dont know yet. Recovery numbers are in the west are pretty small so far and people seem to be sick for 2-3 weeks.
bruciaculetto?
>How many people losing their jobs is an acceptable cost to save one life? 10? 100? 1,000? More?
And this is an inherently flaw in the system is it not?
The economy was a tool built by us to serve us, and now we live and tremble in fear as if it were some divine structure to be appeased. When you place the economy over human life something is terribly wrong
Do we need to make a blood sacrifice to keep our economic god appeased?
I am 35 years old and since I can even remember we have lived in fear of this 'economy'
Maybe it is time to let it crash and build a new system
People kill themselves LESS in times of economic strife. Statistics have shown this time and time again
>how can u allow younger family members to go out freely and not expecy every single family infected
I guess it is different here, most elderly people live in retirement homes. You just need a few staff members to isolate, and have everything delivered to the retirement homes. I am not saying that it absolutely can't have an impact on the normal population, but you need to make sure you don't harm the economy as much as possible. I normally really disagree with Trump, and i also really disagree with the nothingburgers from the start. But he is kind of right that the economy can't be burdened the way it is now. I have heard forecasts of 30% economic shrinkage this quarter in the US, which is unsustainable.
My grandads hit 80, senile, aggressive, quite simply a cunt. Bosses my grandma around and doesn't let her have any freedoms, she literally mothers him.
I have prayed he dies to this virus, he is a waste upon this earth. Nothing about him is good. More so, I want him to die so my grandmother can finally be free.
Stop thinking just because they're old you must give them sympathy or help. Majority of them, the best thing that could happen is they leave this plane of existence.
>We seriously dont know yet
It does not matter, we can't stop this outbreak anyway. And we can't destroy the economy for a hypothetical.
What we (both Italy and Spain and soon everyone else) are doing is even worse than the illness and a consequence of today's sick vision of death.
Instead of letting these people die in their houses surrounded by their families, we're sending them to overcrowded hospitals where they die alone or surrounded by strange, stressed out people. Then they're buried or cremated in isolation as if their bodies were toxic waste. Families aren't even allowed to hold a funeral.
This is a consequence of seeing death as the ultimate evil instead of understanding that it's natural for any person over 80 to die.
We shouldn't be sending 80 year olds into the ICU to put them on a ventilator that will do a number in their lungs.
Life has a beginning and an end and it isn't right to pointlessly prolong it beyond what's natural just because we can.
>The government just passed the largest stimulus bill in history, and it provisions $1,200 for most americans
This will only cause inflation in the end, if we see a decline in real economic output. So if this keeps going to long it will be really fucking dangerous.
This is what happens when mutts and niglets are raised without father's. They don't have any family past there shitty single mother, and thus have no empathy for them.
>. If that happens, war and famine will follow. Just remember, if we do get to that point, you wanted to stop the virus no matter the cost.
Yeah i agree user.
I bet you neer took an important decisions in your life, nor you will ever be able. You will alway put yourself onto the moral pedestal judging others which will actually do the job. Too easy dude. But decisions has to be taken. And moral decisions are the toughest. I repeat. It's always a trade off. So I'll always opt for the lesser evil. 14 posts by you, where you never argumented. Only insults. You either are a troll or a loser in real life. Bye.
This same user would be screeching about his unalienable God-given rights and his decades of paying taxes to fund the health sector if he was 70, infected with corona virus and told to "go die at home as nature intended"
>economic god
It's not some nebulous apparition you moron, it's you. It's your neighbor. It's your cousin. "The economy" is not the stock market, it's the sum total of economic activity in a nation. It's not the economy you should fear, it's unemployment. No one is making blood sacrifices. It's simply people saying "I might get this virus, and if I do, I might get really sick. I might even die. But that's three mights. If I don't go out and get some money, I'm going to starve." A sure thing beats a potentiality. Risk management is a part of living on this planet.
>Maybe it is time to let it crash and build a new system
Unless you're a fascist, you're not going to like the "new system" any better than the old one.
>It does not matter, we can't stop this outbreak anyway
As we see in japan and south korea you absolutely can but you need rigorous testing and hard quarantine measures. We need to starve it for one month and take precautions afterwards with a wide-spread use of masks.
Im talking of the tons of working fathers that would die. It would kill more father than any other cause of death put together
Mothers too
>and now we live and tremble in fear as if it were some divine structure to be appeased
Dude economic activity has always taken up all of our time, be it hunting, gathering, or agriculture. Economic activity is what provides live in the first place.
This. The markets not a thing to be worshipped. If we can't weather a temporary, not even permanent or total shut down like this, we have a lot of shit that needs to be fixed. Fuck the house of cards crap. And fuck the chaponiggers too.
Old people can neither work nor generate more workers nor be expected to train for future work.
>As we see in japan and south korea you absolutely can but you need rigorous testing and hard quarantine measures
They will always be vulnerable to new outbreaks, this is not a national effort.
Coronavirus is a bullshit meme
>Quarantine infinity
>No diseases
>Become poor
>No migrants
>No lgbt and feminism cause people need to care about real problems
Its win win win guys
>Im talking of the tons of working fathers that would die
Not really, just isolate the once with health conditions.
No that guy is a bullshit meme.
And my grandma lost her husband after 70yrs of marriage, and now she cant cope with it and has to live alone.
Not every case is like yours
Based all ind*vidualists will be hanged
>They will always be vulnerable to new outbreaks, this is not a national effort.
Hence it will take a long while before we go back to normal. Globalization will be put on hold while we rebuild national industries. This wasnt the first sickness that spread around the world and it wont be the last, we have to take permament measures to stop or mitigate another plague.
Do you know if any european country decided to massively produce masks and to provide them to its citizen?
Well, Japan and S Korea didnt lockdown the country. They simply followed confirmed cases and isolated them.
U know, if it was for myself and if we were considering only the moral aspect, i would not lockdown italy cause idgaf if old people die, i barely cared when my grandparents die
But i'd have to think about the entire nation not only myself
>Globalization will be put on hold while we rebuild national industries.
Nope, it never will because people don't want to go back to the dark ages. Globalization is not just about labour.
>This wasnt the first sickness that spread around the world and it wont be the last, we have to take permament measures to stop or mitigate another plague.
Yeah exactly this happend many times long before globalization.
To be honest all of these people who argue
>geee but teres human beans that actually love their boomer family members
That's unhealthy, they Will leave sooner or later and you gotta accept that. If you fuck up your own money making methods how are you supposed to take care of them? it'd be worse. You people seem so brainlet is worrysome.
> Ppl that worked their whole life for my country and gave their contribution to it
this is what they tell you but its not true
>It means about 1/50 families would lose a father that is most probably working
Many people in their 50s dont have a family, especially in Italy
And the first illness by death % is hypertension, a very common illness that doesnt kill 90+% of the
All of this shit is only the problem because of Capitalism though.
Reminder that this isn't a war or a physical natural disaster. No infrastructure or actual physical parts of the economy have been destroyed. Food, water and all things essential to keep everyone going can carry on throughout this.
If your economy just collapses despite the above, just because imaginary numbers go down and there's a window where some people can't make a profit then you have a bigger issue with the system
And that doesnt change the % of family providers that would die