>>There was a lot of pain and suffering for those that tried to lift themselves beyond a rule of occultist mysticism but most people don't know in the first place and you might cause more harm then good just poking at forces beyond your ability to bring about a better reality for yourself and others. bring about feeling are dread and helpless to thous who have suffered is often common when talking about such matters as we all make mistakes we are not proud of and this my result in scolding from even thous with the admirable intent as you seem to know less about what your trying to do then they did. jfk An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.