Can you have morals and values and not be religious?

a person can, yes.
society can't.

Yes, though without reason, since morals cannot subjectively exist by definition.

>t. sub-80 IQ

This question always makes me laugh because the "morals and values" these atheists are claiming they have are just copies of the Christian ones. Way to rebel against the system there, guys.

That being the case, what you're really saying is "Is it possible to behave yourself even if you don't have any reason whatsoever to do it?" the answer to which is, of course: yes. It is possible. But would most people do that? No. In the absence of authority, people behave badly.

Ask yourself what you're really trying to achieve here, and why you think that unshackling the majority of the population from its conscience is the correct way to obtain it.

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Yes but you end up people creating their own morality through grey area debates, which in itself is massively problematic.
Stealing is objectively wrong. OK. What about stealing from a corporation? What about from a supermarket? An independent supermarket? A franchisee owner's McDonald's?
etc.

Religion has problems but at least it avoids grey area debates. Atheism can't solve that.

where did I ever imply I was above a 90 IQ?

Could god microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it

there's your grey area you nigger

Logic is a human limitation, not a godly one.

thats not an answer to the burrito question

Yes it is. The answer was yes.

This

No. Any morality constructed by humans is faulty due to the fact that it could be changed and manipulated for any given purpose, therefore holding no weight or meaning. Morality from God is absolute, unchanging, ever-lasting.

so god cant do everything then?

Yes of course. What religifags don't see is that their so called 'objective morality' is itself contingent on their subjective religious preference. This idea that morality requires a divine dictatorship is one held only by those who need one.

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Yes. Anyone who can't tell the difference between something good and something bad is an over thinking pseudo-intellectual defective invertebrate. It's just that sometimes what's good for your group is not good for another, no sense getting all bisexual and confused over it, it's simple stuff. You don't need one of three middle eastern sects to figure this stuff out.

fuck off retard!

READ THE LATEST COMMENT: youtube.com/watch?v=SyXQSUT4_hI

stuff it up your ass. Does god eat? Does god even operate on the same level of reality where he can even microwave something? The second coming of Christ will be only to microwave a burrito that is too hot for him to eat.

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I can have morals and values and still think that bitch has an awesome body no doubt

Only God could make something like that.

yes you idiot. in fact i'd say that non religious people in general have stronger moral codes and a better sense for what is right and wrong, since they have to actually think about it and navigate the ambiguity of the burdens we must bear in the name of what is right.

following rules is not being moral. you have to do the right thing for the right reason.

Yes.

>tips fedora

>Religifag btfo

>so god cant do everything then?

This is not a constraint on God. It is beneath God's nature to interfere with free will.

did you even read the last comment?

You are such a fucking retard... READ THE LATEST COMMENT

Where do you get your morals and values from?

No, if ALL is as God wills it to be--then free will cannot exist. You do not have a choice, only the illusion of one. The omniscient aspect of God's nature leaves no room for humans to act on their own accord.

>Can you have morals and values and not be religious?

God is the logical structure of reality. Morals are discovered via reason. It is called the Natural law.

Try harder fag.

>not
no, God is limitless.
Godless societies end in corruption and debasement where the people are farmed as organ banks or labor units.

This

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE YAHWERINO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN GOOD JEHOVAROONIE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE JEWISH GOD THAT I WORSHIP NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>No, if ALL is as God wills it to be--then free will cannot exist. You do not have a choice, only the illusion of one. The omniscient aspect of God's nature leaves no room for humans to act on their own accord.

This presumes that God existed before the universe. It is impossible to speak of a time before that which has always existed.

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Either that or existentialism. Morals and values came from human empathy, or at least when we evolved with it.

Yes. Anything else I can clear up for you?

If you are a subhuman, never. Social animals have morality and no idea what religion is.
But you are all stupid and should commit suicide because I'm tired of the shittiest people in this planet thinking they can do whatever they want because they are on Jewsus/Mohamed/Jewsus' father/... side.

Your response does not address the contradiction of free will vs the will of God. Time does not pertain to this discussion, either you have free will and can act in a way outside of Gods will...thus he is not omniscient or--you are trapped in God's plan and no choice you make will change the outcome.

Prison population in the USA is 99% Christian
That means atheists in the USA have superior morals and values.

>Your response does not address the contradiction of free will vs the will of God. Time does not pertain to this discussion, either you have free will and can act in a way outside of Gods will...thus he is not omniscient or--you are trapped in God's plan and no choice you make will change the outcome.

Of course it does. You claim that God created free will as though it wasn't constitutive of God's nature as such. The very fact that you think that the laws of the universe change based on God's whim exposes your flawed conception of God.

I may also add to look at most European countries who try to keep their government as secular as possible versus countries that are religious. Most of those countries have a better way of life, including lower crime rates and teen pregnancies.

Individuals can be moral, but when communities loss their collective religion, birth rates decline, nihilism and Marxism rise and the society stagnates.

The world is good. Life is valuable. Promoting the flourishing of life is worthy of striving for. We should act towards doing good and bring about light unto the world.

You cannot objectively prove that any of the statements above is true.
You cannot derive an ought from an is.
In the end, morals and values come from a decision, and leaving metaphysics and creationist theories aside, I believe any such fundamental decisions to be of religious nature. In a sense, only an absolute nihilist (if that were to be possible) could be non-religious.

We are not talking about the laws of nature. We are talking about free will. Your massive conflation of concepts only shows your limited understanding of God. But you dodge the question with the best of apologists. So let me put it this way. If I die tomorrow, was it all apart of God's plan? If the answer is yes (which it must be) the no choice I could have made would change the outcome--thus free will does not exist, because I cannot act in such a way that contradicts the plan God put in place for me.

Not too sure about what you're saying, user, take a look at Europe, most of those countries are secular and are doing great!. Look at the countries who are religious and some of them are the biggest shitholes the world has ever seen.

of course. most religious people i know are the worst liars and cheats i've ever met. most of the atheists i know are cool chill honest and nice people. your question should actually be: can you have morals and values and be religious?

There was a time when religion ruled the world--we call this period the Dark Ages.

cool it with the anti-semitism chief

religion makes you IMMORAL

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What if God's plan is for life to be? How Life chooses to be can vary. A general intended purpose for the universe may not be necessarily incompatible with free will.

Are you retarded? The old testament constantly talks about God intervening and physically changing circumstances to help or harm people. Against their will. Noahs flood story, dumb ass.

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>We are not talking about the laws of nature. We are talking about free will.

The laws of the universe underpin it.

>Your massive conflation of concepts only shows your limited understanding of God.

If the laws of the universe imply free will, how is this a conflation?

You're free to deny it, but you must use it in the course of your denial. This is a performative contradiction.

>But you dodge the question with the best of apologists.

How?

>So let me put it this way. If I die tomorrow, was it all apart of God's plan?

Again, this goes back to my previous point. Your fallacious conception of God's nature implies action on his part as though the laws of the universe change on a whim. This implies a limitation that God does not have, since action is performed to attempt to remove it. This is why I keep talking about the laws of the universe. Once the shifting sands of your fallacious reasoning cease, you can learn to appreciate the beauty of God's nature.

>If the answer is yes (which it must be) the no choice I could have made would change the outcome--thus free will does not exist, because I cannot act in such a way that contradicts the plan God put in place for me.

See above.

>Fear my sky figment or else!

>Are you retarded? The old testament constantly talks about God intervening and physically changing circumstances to help or harm people. Against their will. Noahs flood story, dumb ass.

I'm not a christian or a jew. Perhaps my statements suggest that Yahweh is a false god.

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Its called Libertarianism.

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>I'm not a christian

Alright then, based. Forget my other post.

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