Yas Forums BTFO

Well, why don’t the workers just sell their products directly?

Nice argument, loser.
Get an education or a skill.
SkillX40 hours a week ==weekly paycheck.

The owner buys all that with the profits he made off the workers. The workers could do it without him.

You don't have the freedom to start your own company in burgerland?

based comrade

And not a single Jew to parasite off it.

And why workers can't do both, produce and collectively own the machinery?

The capitalists need their $100m McMansions profiting off exploited labor and kkkonservatives need their billionaires so they can lick their boots. Workers collectively owning anything is a nightmare scenario for them

Then why don't they? Cooperative corporations exist. NOTHING is stopping workers from making their own communal businesses by pooling all their resources. If they can't perform as well as regular corporations, well then maybe there is something to be said for the standard model.

The only sort of system that closely resembles the type of collective ownership of machinery and utilities are that of “village socialist” economics, where it’s often the survival of the group that pushes for full cooperation. However, every attempt at creating systems that fall beyond the urges of immediate necessary survival result in weak links and people de-incentivized to work. 80/20 rule works here. It’s why we’ve discovered that hierarchies within business survive longer and are often more hardier than worker collectives. To run a company you require specialization.

Of course, nothing’s stopping a group of people from collectively pooling their money into stock and equipment and owning their shares together. Those are called investors and shareholders. Of course, it’s not the same as workers merely owning a portion of the company they work within, but if you were receiving passive income that was large enough to live on, why would you ever retuen to working? Not every worker wants to be tied to the success of a business though, because that’d mean financial ruin if the collective ever fails.

But by all means, attempt a business with that model. If it’s so successful, then others will follow.

They can. They just don't have the right to steal that machinery from the people who already own it.

>the left still can't meme

Attached: 1559793158874s.jpg (125x125, 1.72K)

>he thinks that communism has EVER been workers ownership
>meanwhile Stalin/Lenin etc were all eating steak while their countries were forced to eat Doctors Sausage and bread for every meal
Sure thing.

Of course the model built on slave labor is more flexible.

Defenders of capitalism have been proven retarded with the recent stock market crash

Attached: d8d77ceaf277deabd2bbef8d015ca562-imagepng.png (1416x799, 274.11K)

How is voluntarily working for pay slavery?

stock market is already coming back, commie coomer doomer.

>could
but the won't because they don't have what it takes to run a company. if they did, they would be.

>anything to say for yourselves?

sure, i will field this one.
fucking NOBODY is stopping the workers from owning the company.
if all the workers got together, and came up with the cah to start the company?
hey babe, workers WOULD own the company.
they could pay themselves ALL the profits.
(they could also share ALL the RISK)

what the FUCK is stopping these lazy assholes from getting together and starting their own fucking company, then just working there?
nothing stopping them at all...
unless......
well, it *really* sounds like they expect some "rich guy" to START and RUN the company? then just GIVE IT to them.... yeah fuck that.
===============================
main point: *nothing* is stopping these "highly intelligent go-getters" from starting their OWN company and working it.

People have to run their project under their responsibility to get things done. To get this to happen the owners has to get the spoils of what their company is making.

When that is said rental and landlording should be absolutely banned since unlike other companies that provide services or produce products. Landlords aren't contributing to anything by buying houses to rent out.

what are you 12 years old? Do you have zero idea what an owner or CEO does? Obviously you have no idea what an investor is or how investing works.
>Well Karl, I give the company my money in return for ownership in part of it
>the company uses MY money to grow
>if the company fails I lose that money
>but if the company succeeds I either get an infantecimile percent of the profits or I sell my ownership.
>I risk my money ti help a company grow

This is a regular (and predicable) market function, you retarded faggot

The only way for a "fair" system of production and profit for company and worker alike is syndicalism. Legally mandating that every company must split its revenue evenly between all employees, regardless of skill but based on time worked. It would be calculated by PRE-tax profit and investment so companies like Amazon can't dodge the payment by throwing $60 million at a fake phone company scam and claiming it was a write off.

bottom line: workers expect REGULAR PAY with ZERO risk of losing anything,
OWNERS risk EVERYTHING, plus hane NO GUARANTEE of making anything, or worse go into debt.
the workers expect a share of profits, without assuming any RISK, and without spending any money of their own? yeah, wonder why no onn.e jumps at this genius plan.
real stumper there.

Hello TEFL friend. Did you know I make somewhere in the ballpark of 2x to 3x your salary because I am not backpacker degenerate scum like you? Enjoy not getting paid during the coronavirus closures because you Thầy ba lô are stuck on hourly wages.

that philosophy is the opium of the bourgeois

>The two Karls

>Then why don't they?

Goddamn it's sad that Commietards even need to be asked this question.

It's like trying to debate fucking flat Earthers. Their general understanding of the basics of the basics of the basics OF THE FUCKING BASICS of how investment works is so completely off mark and disconnected from reality that it's impossible to explain anything to them.

They legit do not understand that capitalism already allows workers to sell direct and that their utopian concept of business without investors and bosses is already capable of being a thing under fair market laws. That's how you know that 100% of commiefags on the internet are really just lazy fucks who want a society of free gibs.

Attached: fixedthatforyou.png (828x574, 721.07K)

commies will never understand this because they don't understand what capital actually is and does, because none of them have ever actually built or made anything.

>Landlords aren't contributing to anything by buying houses to rent out.
so? buy your OWN fucking house and live in it.
you want the workers to "own the means of production"?
fucking get together and put up the cash and start your OWN business.
no one STOPPING you, go for it.
===========================
if 100 workers, pony up 10,000 *each*...
thats one MILLION dollars to start a company
each worker owns one percent of the PROFIT, thats what they get paid.
if the company LOSES money one year? not only do the workers work for NO PAY, they OWE one percent of the LOSS

fucking go for it.

letras letras letras...

how voluntary are minimum wage jobs

This

>Millionaire buys a plot of land
>Pays for a factory to be built
>Pays for it to be outfitted with machines
>Hires and pays for employee wages
>Buys parts to be assembled by his working class chimpanzees
>Pays for running gas electric and water and the bills for each and property taxes
>Has to pay income taxes while abiding to county state and federal regulations
>Has to front all the costs and face all the risk if his business were to fail

>B..B..BUT MUH WORKERS COULD DO IT ALL WITHOUUT HIM!!!!

You are a braindead faggot, never touch a keyboard again.

le defender of wage slavery to the point that most americans can't afford a $500 emergency has arrived

I'm working class myself. I know what your trying to convey, but you do a horrible job of expressing it. ie
>the left can't meme
The manager class become full of shit. Sure, there are some good ones. But as a whole the ones at the top are mostly "educated" morons who usually make things worse. That being said-more government is not the answer. A lot of the red tape that strangles small businesses is because of regulations that are lobbied by big business in the first place. It's not a true free market to begin with. Your voting for the exact opposite of what you want.
Government and Business should be kept separate as much as possible-not even closer.

Because the workers don't have the money to build and maintain the factory.

Happy commies?

/thread

It really is like arguing with five year olds isn't it.

You try to explain the tradeoff between risk and investment to them and they just throw themselves down on the ground kicking and screaming.

BUUUUUT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREEEEEE WAAAAAAHHHH I WANT EKWALUHTAY I WANT FREE FOOD I WANT FREE HOME I WANT FREE DOCTORS I WANT I WANT I WANT WAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Waste of goddamn fucking time.

Pic related is their only cure.

Attached: 1558647725402.jpg (1280x720, 101.58K)

100% voluntary because being in a min wage job is exclusively due to your lack of marketable skills and therefore a result of your poor life CHOICES.

Maybe we should fix that.

Attached: 1575836498976.jpg (1312x1410, 355.37K)

Not to mention the insurance most businesses have to pay just to operate. There are also many owners of small businesses that work down in the trenches with the workers. People who make threads like this never stop and think about everything it takes to run even a small business because they have obviously never worked at one

Neither does the business owner. Why do you think most companies are based on debt?

Go on...

the millionaire stays on top while the worker stays in his dismal position for no reason but being born into poverty
i

Most Big Businesses make deals with local and federal businesses to keep the lobbyists happy and in turn the politicians vote for bills that keep Big Business rich. The solution is to keep only the bare minimum regulations that are necessary to public health. And to allow businesses and private citizens to be as free as possible.

"Surplus Value" and the entire labor theory of value is bunk anyway. Once again, if your work is so valuable, do it by yourself and own all the value of your own work. If you don't think you need bosses, shareholders, CEOs, owners or any of those mean people who you confuse as parasites simply because you don't understand the role they play, then by all means, start your own cooperative without them.

Protip: The fact that you don't understand what they do and think they are parasites is why you will never succeed trying to take on their roles AND perform labor.

>When you talk to a commie online, you are talking with a class LARPer
Treat them as such.

Attached: 1580519488463.png (2444x1484, 3.81M)

If that were the case all the old money families like rockerfeller would be the only rich families to exist and no new millionaires would be made. Also your logic assumes people dont make poor life choices that land them into poverty.

A worker who makes 30k-50k a year isn't going to get approved by a bank for a muti-million dollar loan to puy a piece of land and materials needed to build a factory.

Pay the workers a living wage. This will allow them to actually start a business if they want and spur on the economy. It will also improve the psychological well being of everyone, reduce crime, and generally make the world a better place for everyone, and the guy at the top doesn't even need to lose his fortune if he raises the prices because the workers will have enough money to afford the higher prices.

No one has to lose. Although a lot of the people at the top would rather kill all of you than lose a single dime to the workers.

Attached: NatSocGeneral.jpg (2100x750, 820.19K)

Which all mean nothing if the CEO has no skill in business or finance. No one wants to invest in a company thats going nowhere.

>They would if they could
>To obtain the necessary materials and produce them at this price i need to use a list of contacts i've built over the course of my entire life
>The materials then need to be put together in a proprietary fashion, designed through billions of dollars of research
>Some components are too laborious to be constructed by an developed nation at a cost the consumer finds acceptable, so i used my contacts to deploy a workforce in the Philippines
>Then there's the lawsuits that are the result of doing business in any capacity. The proprietary formula i mentioned before needs to be protected, but there are other actors that believe they're owed royalties on basic nuts and bolt components of the product
>I've been fighting it out with them since 2005, we've won some settlements, lost some, we usually get them all overturned, but i can tell you i had ulcers on more than one occasion, haha.

>At the end of the day, the average worker might do something more laborious, but the moment they step off the property they can move on to their lives, i am always on call and ALWAYS responsible for this business.

>Fed prints $1.5trillion dollars to bail out rich
>"THE RICH ARE OPPRESSED, YOU RISK NOTHING WHEN THEY LAY OFF HUGE SWARMS OF THEIR WORKFORCE ON THE SAME WEEK THEY GAVE THEMSELVES A RAISE. THEY HAD TO MAKE THAT BUSINESS THAT THEY USED NEPOTISM TO GET, AND WAS ALREADY BUILT AND ESTABLISHED DECADES AGO. DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO USE ALL YOUR COMPANY PROFITS TO BUY STOCKS BACK INSTEAD OF STABLY INVESTING BACK INTO YOUR OWN COMPANY FOR TANGIBLE GROWTH???? DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WORK GOES INTO HAVING A PR SLUT WRITE ALL YOUR COMPANY WIDE EMAIL ANNOUNCEMENTS WHILE YOU GET COCAINE SNIFFED OFF YOUR COCK BY YOUR RECEPTIONIST? HE EARNED THAT POSITION, AND THE FACT THAT HIS FATHER WAS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! PURELY COINCIDENCE. ALL HIS HARD WORK AND MERIT."

Good luck starting a business on your own now. Taxes-Regulations-Even more Taxes. Its not that people don't want to be free and sell they're talent and labor. It's that Big Business has made it so fucking hard to be independent at all! Look at how disney/google/microsoft/apple/facebook basically control fucking everything! That's not capitalism. It's a fucking oligarchy!

>Taxes-Regulations-Even more Taxes
Umm, that's big government, bro.

holy shit first time i've seen this flag on here