It seems to me like anything to do with determinism in the west when it comes to non-physical traits is considered “wrong” no matter what in the west. Height? Sure, skin color of a race? Okay. But personality, intelligence or behavior? That’s just blasphemy for 99% of the west whether they be a full blown 100% environmental determinist extreme marxist or a body soul dualist Christian or even magical centrist who doesn’t ask questions. It seems like the west is more comfortable with life being more “determinist” than the west and it affects how we approach certain fields in academia. What do you guys think? It obviously wasn’t always this way but I think christianity was the vector of attack for the subversives in the west. I don’t think those like the Japanese or other East Asians could ever fall for something so obviously false when you zoom out. We implicitly know that some people are just more intelligent than others. We recognize that when two smart parents have a kid they are more likely to be smart. We realize that one sibling can be much more intelligent than the other in the same environment but everyone freaks out when you assume that intelligence isn’t just being read books in childhood or going to a good school.
The west is obsessed with anti determinism
You should know better. Determinism and freedom are contradictory on a scientific sense. We live denying determinism , we need it to be free.
Jewish anthropologist and sociologists pushed environmtalism in our academia.
Key figures are (((Franz Boas))) and (((Stephen Jay Gould))). They used shady tactics to push their egalitarianism agenda.
I would recommend reading "Culture of Critique" and "A Troublesome Inheritance".
There you will get info on these and more Jews pushing this stuff.
A Troublesome Inheritance is actually a mainstream book (NYT bestseller), but all the people mentioned pushing equality are Jews funnily enough.
Good point. The more I learn about genetics the more I think I become a broad scale determinist. Like your “choices” are just a product of whatever you are physically made out of (genes) in a certain environment. So do believe that the entire philosophy of freedom or free will is a giant cope that we have to believe in order to not all kill ourselves? Is this why religious people whether Christian or the nu religion of social justice magic equality are necessary?
Don’t worry homie, I’m funny aware and funnily enough the anthro and race realism redpills were the ones that shattered my entire worldview. I’ve read that and “Erectus Walks Among Us” and the other Macdonald book. I’m unable to look at the world the same after realizing these things. The entire current house of cards is built on a false axiom of tabula rasa which is why nothing works and everting is backwards. It’s a square peg and a round hole and not based on truth.
Free will doesn't exist.
Every single particle in the universe acts either deterministically(classical mechanics) or randomly(quantum mechanics). Out of this combination it is impossible to conceive of a notion of free will.
Besides, no-one can ever explain how free will is theoretically supposed to work. It is literally logically impossible.
It could also disprove determinism. Even a dog would be wiser I f you throw the towell of your own will just because numbers on a blackboard say so.
I’m making a fuck ton of typos because I’m pretty drunk but this is what I theorized myself as well. Hopefully no t_d boomers ruin the thread. Tell me about your redpill journey and how race realism was involved. I’ll try to make fewer typos and focused but I’m just really depressed after coming to realizations recently. I view “choice” as a coin flip predetermined by all previous actions that led up to that point, including ones that loaded the coin in the first place. I hypothesize that if you were born again with the same exact universe in which every particle and spin was exactly the same that the exact same result of that universe would occur. We can try to get around this but in the end it’s all material. For instance some people can overcome addiction but the hardware (genes) have to be correct for even a chance of recovery.
holy shit you are fucking retarded
That’s just ignorance though. I could teach a child that 2+2=5 and my cat would be functionally more correct about math because he doesn’t even know what it is. That’s an argument for the burden of self awareness.
How so?
>Height?
>We recognize that when two smart parents have a kid they are more likely to be smart.
I think you're really dumb and shouldn't try to lead topics.
You're right, free will is bullshit.
I meant that when two intelligent parents have a child, the child is more likely to be intelligent as well. Adoption and twin studies show that in adulthood around .8 of the variance is explained by parental IQ. I’m drunk man, sorry. I’m just trying to say that non physical (arguably since the brain is physically constructed) are partially deterministic as well. We admit that a tall dude will have tall kids and that a smart dude will have smart kids but when it comes to between groups everyone loses their minds.
Yeah exactly, no reason to be blackpilled though. Just act as if you did have free will, that is better for you. Also, you seem to be rather intelligent, so you're not doomed to anything bad.
But it has been useful to grant us better life conditions than the rest of the world
You're drunk, but you're posting more sensible than 90% on this forum sober.
Still, stop drinking.
My friends tell me that I’m functionally retarded and I think it might be because of my personality. A good friend of mine has the same personality and if you asked a group of my high school friends who the most intelligent people they know are they would say me and the other person like me. I know personality types are a meme but we both have INTJ types and are intelligent in terms of IQ but horrible in putting it into action. Like we can do well on a ravens progressive matrices but don’t have good social skills and have massive depression and anxiety problems. Thanks for the kind words. I really don’t care if I make typos because the underlying idea is understood. I don’t care about coming off as intelligent like a reddit midwit.
Social problems can be overcome. Just learn how people want you to behave, there are books on this, but you can figure out a lot by just observing as well. If you are confident and you say nice things about people you can get away with a lot of social inability as well.
I just view knowledge about things that aren’t practical more than those that are. My biggest problem is lack of motivation, poor social skills and self esteem. I would really like to be an anthropologist or geneticist one day but I’m pretty sure they would just kick me out of not being a good goy and coming to “problematic” conclusions. It seems like normal people value things that are practical more than I do.
There are things you can do when it comes to motivation. I'm sure you know how to research them. I can recommend "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg, otherwise motivation shouldn't be your achilles heel, everyone struggles with that.
Go for something that interests you, but also makes money / gets you a job. If you don't want to be thrown out, then just stay quiet for as long as you have to.
>it can't exist because I defined it to be logically impossible
Nobody in the real world uses that definition, though. We have free will in the compatibilist sense--which is how normal people, courts of law, and most philosophers use the term.
It basically refers to having control over your actions. It's the difference between a normal person and a tourette's patient cursing at you; one has control and the other doesn't.
If determinism is true then the correct reaction by those considered inferior is to kill anyone who is superior to them to lower the threshold for being superior. People like you never think straight.
being a determinist is just the deep autist option for being an edgy atheist, nobody cares and you're just making a fool of yourself
We are not talking about the "compatibalist sense" of free will.
Yeah, were talking about the logically impossible version that nobody actually uses outside of internet debates to disprove it.
>Yeah, were talking about the logically impossible version that nobody actually uses outside of internet debates to disprove it.
This is the philosophical version that it makes sense to talk about.
Also, people ARE using it, basically every religious person believes in it.
i wish they'd eradicate the genetard gene already
They're just dualists not realizing they're determinists of a different stripe. Instead of
>my body is doing what it would do in this environment
it's
>my soul is doing what it would do in this environment
Determinism does not contradict free will. If anything, there's a stronger case to be made in a more deterministic universe than a more random one. At least then your behavior would be consistent.
Neither in a deterministic, nor in a random universe is free will possible.
If it is determined, then it isn't free.
It if is random, then it isn't free.
A deterministic world doesn't make your behavior more consistent.
Determinism says that everything is predetermined because of particle collisions, etc. This applies to your brain as well, the laws of physics don't pay attention to the consistency of your actions.
Compatibilism is literally thousands of years old. Read a fucking book, nigger
If your position is that people with tourette's syndrome or seizures have an equal amount of control over their actions as those who don't, your position is retarded.
And if we're not talking about control over our actions, what's the discussion even about?
No surprise to find just one more incompatibilist retard, but you really ought to try thinking and perhaps reading sometimes.
They do, because no one has any "control" in the sense of actual free will. All your life and all your decisions are just a bunch of chemical and physical reactions inside and outside your brain.
Just as if you had a disease.
>a seizure patient has as much control over their muscles as a normal person
Kek. This is retarded.
>commenting my position
>not responding to my argument
your argument rests on understanding reality in a way we cannot. what would be the point?
Is it so hard to understand that literally everything in the universe is either determined or random? How could you make a choice that is neither determined nor random in a universe like that?
everyone should be an anti-determinist; if determinism were true then all moral language is nonsensical given no one can be responsible for anything "they" do
>what is black swan theory
fucking redditors with their goddamn block of text.
it's not a refutation of determinism that the determinists have incomplete information - they can still insist that all things are nevertheless causally determined
it's funny that so many determinists are also rabid anti-theists who like to say belief in God is bad/stupid because it's nonfalsifiable while in the same breath telling everyone that everything is determinate
>- they can still insist that all things are nevertheless causally determined
LMAO fucking retard.
You are trying to say an individual can know ALL things and that is literally impossible. You are being bombarded with information constantly, and you CHOOSE to pay attention to a select group of that information. You cannot link a cause-effect relationship to a fucking loop.
You CHOOSE to pay attention to select things, when shit doesn't go your way, you have a brain relapse and say, "well it COULD have been cause-effect related." and carry on your way like nothing ever fucking happened!
are you ESL
Are there events in the universe that are not either random or otherwise following natural laws (thus determined).
Quality thread. The American idea of "anyone can be anything" is not only incorrect, it's harmful.
willful decision making is neither random nor pre-determined
>I’m just really depressed after coming to realizations recently
I've found it undepressing, liberating actually. To understand that I am exactly what the universe intends me to be. To lose all my regrets.
> I view “choice” as a coin flip predetermined by all previous actions that led up to that point, including ones that loaded the coin in the first place. I hypothesize that if you were born again with the same exact universe in which every particle and spin was exactly the same that the exact same result of that universe would occur.
Yes. Every effect has a cause. the chain of cause and effect stretches back into infinity.
Yes, good goyim. You're in control and are a special snowflake that can break fate to do whatever you want. God totally has no power over you or your actions. He's totally a weak pussy. You're in control!
>determinism
if you believe in this, you are an ideological retard. just as you are a retard if you believe in the utopianism of man can be whatever he wants to be
if you were a clock you couldn't be meaningfully judged for doing exactly as "you" were programmed to do, given "you" couldn't have done anything else
Because a good section of the determinist's prophecy has been wrong. Materialisms predictions have been false, and most modern academics predictions have done fuck all for the West. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater when doing in-group strudies and race realism.
So how does it happen then? What is the mechanism behind it? Magic?
I'm Satan and I agree with this. God has no power over you and even if he did he certainly couldn't punish you for acting like a nigger because that would be unfair.
How? If it keeps inferior people hanging on and being productive its more beneficial than any truths you can "enlighten them" with.
can you get behind your thoughts?
you/your will self-generate causes/action
if that's postulating magic then so is saying all things are deterministic and everything that can possibly happen is necessarily evidence of that
you wouldn't exist in a deterministic world
there's no self or will in such a world to speak of in the same way we don't anthropomorphize rocks by pretending they have wills or responsibilities
>nor pre-determined
Can you change the past? Your decision is based on previous experience + instinct (genetics) neither of which you can change.
Yes, very good. Keep abstracting things away. There are no organs or spirit, just the man. There are no races, just humanity. The events that led up to your poor decisions do not exist and if you repeat those events over and over again things are certainly going to get better. No need to avoid temptation when you can surely resist it with your own will and of course would never give in.
nah
I make willful, conscious decisions - how I'm choosing to type to you isn't a forgone conclusion but my chosen course of action
bazingo
>the events that led up to
things happening doesn't mean other things are necessitated by those other things happening
if you shot someone's brother that brother could murder you in retaliation, torture you, run in terror, go eat spaghetti, condemn you, forgive you, or any number of other possibilities none of which are foregone conclusions
fucking Godless heathen thinking he's a clock LOL
That's impossible from what we know about the world we live it, how would that process of will/action generation function?
And: Can you control what you are going to think next, or do your thoughts just appear? Are you sure there is such a thing as "you"?
But HOW do you choose? CHOICE is an illusion. Things just happen.
>chosen course of action
Based on your previous experiences and genetics, neither of which you have control over.
Yes, good goy. You clearly do not completely misunderstand what the Christian definition of free will is. Listen to your pride. You are right and everyone else is just a godless heathen. Continue along this path and never question what the powers that be led you to believe. You are in control, not that weak pathetic God.
>That's impossible from what we know about the world
how do you figure?
>how would that process of will/action generation function
"how would"?
do you just want something to look at? conscious/willful thought precedes all your sensory faculties - it's behind them
the freedom to do exactly and only what was pre-prescribed for you
the most intelligent and nihilistic clock God could ever hope for!
you can process information - that doesn't mean the information is the source of a choice
if I choose a pear over a banana, it's not information about pears or bananas that made a decision, but ME mulling over which I thought I might prefer
my understanding of pears and bananas respectively did not produce the choice
That doesn't mean we don't have any control over our actions. It just means our actions are either predictable or unpredictable (congrats, no one is disputing that).