>for more than 200 years, politics has revolved around the left/right 18th century french meme
>for more than 100 years, every political question stems from the debate on how labor vs capital should be compensated
In a time where labor is less and less relevant ("thanks" to progress) and where capital has turned into meaningless speculation, why are normies still mesmerized by this dichotomy?
200 years of debate, strife, and bloodshed for not even answering this?
My theory is that with the rise of the bourgeoisie as the ruling class, the spiritual debate on theodicy has turned into a materialistic debate. We no longer wonder why the evil person does not suffer and why the good person does suffer. We wonder why the evil person gets rich and why the good person gets poor. When people mainly busy with making money rule the World, the World takes on their hopes and worries. What's your thoughts on this?
Capital vs labor
Other urls found in this thread:
Literally the smartest thread on Yas Forums right now, thus will get no attention.
without capitalism doing it's thing i wouldn't have the funding needed for my ride.
sincerely,
war
Capitalism really does work but it needs resetting every so often.
The French understood this.
war was doing pretty good before the rise of capitalism fren and will most probably do well after it ends (if it ever does).
capitalism has existed since before formal currency, child.
it is the desire to allow others to profit off their labor under your investments.
based frenchie replacing post-modernism with the philosophical tradition of his country
Yeah the Bretton Woods global market era is ending and the wars will likely return.
The problem is that you're taking people too seriously when they talk.
99% of people don't give a single fuck about some esoteric argument about labor vs capital. Nobody gives a fuck about that. People are just saying shit that they think will help them out. If they think siding with commies is going to get a better result, they'll say all this bullshit about labor value whatever the fuck.
It's not a real argument... there's no such thing.
There are people with power, and people without it.
Politics is a superficial proxy for evolutionary interests as being expressed by people's preferences. People are just saying bullshit with the intent of manipulating everyone else to help them. That's all that's happening.
Neoliberalism and Globalism kinda screwed over war. And poverty, famine and death as it seems.
Neither debates are productive.
Gay masonic revolution that doomed the world.
By capitalism I was referring to Mandeville, Smith and all that school of thought.
I wish we had this thread 10 times a day 7 days a week rather than...everything else we have
>I wish we had this thread 10 times a day 7 days a week rather than...everything else we have
It's a very easily fulfilled wish... just make the thread
>it doesn't happen in my backyard therefore it doesn't exist
You can think that, but I prefer to think that hundreds of millions of people lived and died for something else that "evolutionary interests". Let alone the fact that one could argue that the vast majority of people have no idea of what their interest is and prefer to delegate the thinking to their "representatives".
>We wonder why the evil person gets rich and why the good person gets poor.
Under god, the poor man's promised rewards are eternal.
Without god, the earthly injustice is all there is.
t. ex-Christian
You are right, it deserves a bump
>In a time where labor is less and less relevant ("thanks" to progress) and where capital has turned into meaningless speculation, why are normies still mesmerized by this dichotomy?
Its because capital seemingly controls everything. One can be vague and still be accurate by blaming capital.
>>Woot
>Without god, the earthly injustice is all there is.
Meh, a communist would answer you that one day a classless society will inevitably arise and we'll all live happily ever after.
And a capitalist will tell you that we'll all turn into overfed burgers only busy with leisure.
People need to rationalize that which has no meaning. Personally, I think religion is better for this than economics.
That's probably a good idea.
>We no longer wonder why the evil person does not suffer and why the good person does suffer.
Uhm because of money? You need to be a fucking asshole to get rich in this world. Money equals power so the good person lives in a world without power, or freedom or safety. Capitalism you know.
THIS was a question they debatet 200 years? kek
i am not a commie, but honestly i dont find any cons about this ideology, except the new globohomos commies which are pro migration and stuff. honestly why i should not side with them? in italy we still have the commie part which is very nationalistic.
this is related to your topic about resolving that issue with communism
You are giving capital way too much credit I think. The West has never been so rich and yet it can be bothered with the burden of existence anymore. It seems like Capitalism can't even give reasons good enough for its own subsistence. And since Communism has trapped itself in the dead end that is democracy, I think the West will have to come up with a new mindset.
im starting to think commies just hate fat people who dress dapper
It still debated to this day, take a look at the other side of the Atlantic Hans.
I think they are both sides of the same coin. They are both bourgeois materialistic ideologies. The modern world needs transcendence.
>I think religion is better for this than economics.
We live in a post faith world. You can't force people to believe that which their rational minds reject.
labor theory of value is fucking retarded
>You need to be a fucking asshole to get rich in this world
Riches are not binary. I'm wealthy (top 1%) but I didn't need to tread on anyone to get here.
We're fast approaching a point, possibly in our lifetime, where over half the population literally have nothing to offer in the labor market. With any potential farm land all bought up, they'll literally have no means to even sustain themselves. In situations like that, the bottom will seek to redistribute resources with bloodshed. The elites know this for the most part. Why do you think most Western nations are doing all they can to completely disarm and emasculate the working classes?
>why are normies still mesmerized by this dichotomy?
because it's EASIER TO MANIPULATE PEOPLE by LYING and using this RIDICULOUS COMPARISON, stirring up the "99%" to "occupy wal street" and vote for "What a Burn" Crazy Bernie and DEMON-RATS in general, via *EMOTIONS*.
Stupid feelies, yeah. pic related.
>over half the population literally have nothing to offer in the labor market.
They still make for great consumers. The useful 50% will literally bank the dysfunctional 50%.
Elites want the consumers, that's why we haven't yet seen a great culling.
If they have no labor to offer that provides utility, what will they have to trade in order to consume?
He lost. Get over it.
>We live in a post faith world.
Tell that to the Alluhakbar crowd. Tell that to the Narendra Modi crowd. etc.
People in the West are not rejecting religion with their rational mind but with their reptilian brain: not going to Church sunday morning is comfy, divorce is comfy, abortion is comfy, not arguing with faggots is comfy, not dying for your faith is comfy, usury is comfy, or to make it short, degeneracy is comfy.
Not that I think religion, as it was, will be the solution picked but I do think that we'll get tired of comfort... or die.
all it takes is a single global recession for the global neoliberal era to end
>what will they have to trade in order to consume?
Nothing. They trade nothing.
I'm literally talking about welfare beneficiaries. They exist today. They're why your taxes are so high.
Maybe it's worse in bongland.
They don't. they get the money through social benefits paid by the tax payers.
In other words, the middle-class pays/works so the useless can consume more.
You don't need to offer labor, if someone else is doing the labor for you to get your consumables.
A return to more traditional governmental systems and values would be a joy to see, but the powers that be will never allow such a world exist. Most people don’t even know what they’ve lost.
At least Kali Yuga will get things moving back toward sanity, even if we won’t see the end of it in our lifetime.
>rule the world
what do they do when ruling the world
You have your faith, muzzles have theirs, I see it as a lie.
As a lie constructed to redress the imbalance of earthly wealth with a promise of a better tomorrow.
72 virgins in Islam. The riches of the kingdom of the Lord in Christianity.
Make shitloads of cash.. They’re basically just merchant guilds.
By that time, middle class would be far too small to siphon from. They can try creating a world of perpetual hyper inflation where the elite trade in a complete separate, guarded currency, but it's ultimately going to end in bloodbaths.
funny comming from a frenchman
you bastards literally killed monarchy ty
If you are realy top1% ( which i honestly doubt, why would you be here) then you treaded on a looot of people to get there.
"work more, work harder, work longer, feed my shareholder value, gib rent, pay my debts fix my problems, you are only worth your networth and its low because im rich and doesnt give my worth to you, if any of this brings you in economic trouble you are only lazy and stupid therefore its okay for you to starve to death on the streets homeless"
and so on and so on
Capitalism produced the computer revolution and the surplus that allows someone like me to live a much better life than I could have lived had the communists triumphed. In fact the communists seem to hate me and all like me with a deadly passion. I'm very fond of the internet thank you and I look forward to the astounding fruits of the intellectual revolution we're in the midst of.
>As a lie constructed to redress the imbalance of earthly wealth with a promise of a better tomorrow.
It is, but contrary to the labor vs capital debate, it's not only this. It also tries to explain sufferings, death, love and many other puzzling aspects of the human condition.
But that's literally escapism. Denial. Why do that?
What a sad, bitter perspective you have, Hans.
>you treaded on a looot of people to get there.
Nope. I just took the coding pill 25 years ago.
Companies pay a lot for old farts, not sure why desu.
>you bastards literally killed monarchy
I fail to understand how I ever gave you the idea that I were happy about that thing.
Also, if it didn't happen in France, it would have happened elsewhere. By that time, Nobility has been subverted for the Bourgeoisie for too much time.
how they would be burgeois if they get the circa same pay as others workers, without the possibility of having bilions of euros in someway?
That is how the typical communist thinks. They are very envious and greedy
>capital vs labor
Spoken like a typical lazy french moron.
>it's not only this
Sure. But it's still a lie (from my perspective) and therefore little comfort.
stfu nigger
>state that there's more to life than materialistic considerations and that people need this missing thing
>but why don't you believe we are mindless drones of our evolutionary interests?
top 1% in the uk is like £160,000 income
State-sponsored usury.
the ideology is bourgeois, Marx never spend a day of his life working in a factory you know. And yes, bourgeois ideologies can be defended by other classes. A good chunk of the nobility fought for the "enlightenment".
So there’s a question for the scholars.
Which makes a better ruling class, Nobles/Royalty Or Theocrats?
>but it's ultimately going to end in bloodbaths.
One can only hope.
I got to admit, that pic is very clever.
Good find OP
They just wrote about what existed. All economies are capitalism. Feudalism is capitalism. Capitalism as a modern thing was just putting down on paper that you need land, tools and labor to create wealth. Gigantic discovery, nobody ever before used land, tools and labor to create a product until Adam Smith invented it.
Bump
Anything in opposition to nature is doomed to fail
Based and monarch-pilled
What's that painting called? I like it
So what is the truth to you?
This it’s a slight variation on the “Cicero” painting.
Capital won.
It’s sort of interesting when you read labor/union histories. The labor management actually had more class consciousness then the unions/workers, they would collude, play golf together, agree to hold to terms, the very people who should have been completing with each other (under a supposedly “capitalist” system) like if a strike went on too long, be stealing that shuttered factories contracts, in fact were holding the line.
The unions also were more democratic and published meeting minutes, so the companies could exploit disagreements, while the company management also often had disagreements but kept them secret.
The union workers also had dual loyalties to the firm and union, which the capital exploited like threading to move the plant, (which really was never economically viable in those times) and the workers bought it