If you merely skim the abstract in the JAMA link, you may be misled into believing that the study found nothing of significance. This is because mortality, ICU days, ventilator-free days and so forth were secondary outcomes not expected to result in significant reductions. Primary outcomes were organ assessment and c-reactive protein scores, which were expected to show significance even if secondary outcomes did not. As a result, the abstract merely concludes the primary outcome results; if you read the full findings, the secondary outcomes are astonishing. Incredibly, organ assessment and c-reactive protein scores were not at all predictive of patient results.
The attached chart from the study, for example, shows the mortality rates of patients in both groups. The orange shading is the period during which the treatment group received IVC. Note that the control group was vastly more likely to die than the treatment group as long as the treatment group was receiving IVC; when vitamin c was discontinued, both groups’ mortality rates then began tracking together almost perfectly, while maintaining the mortality difference established during IVC treatment.
The vitamin c dose used in this study was only 50mg/kg patient body weight/6hours. That is considered low among the orthomolecular crowd (the doctors and scientists who have promoted high-dose vitamin c for decades). They would prefer somewhere around 5x that dose, at a minimum, administered for a much longer time.
(cont.) Again for the technically minded, the next question is: what is the mechanism? How does vitamin c kill a virus in vivo? After all, how can we possibly believe any of this if we don't even have a hypothetical mechanism? This is discussed in the above study; other studies have also answered the question. It seems that there are likely multiple mechanisms, with at least two being:
Those being formally hypothesized, the next question we need to address is: "But why is vitamin c so special? It's just some cheap powder, of all the things you could pick (elderberry, garlic, ginger tea, etc.) why would you glom onto vitamin c of all things?" That is assuming that the above evidence is meaningless or unintelligible to the reader, because at this point the technical reader will normally be very interested. Now, the answer to that question is rather simple: because 99.9% of the animal kingdom does not synthesize elderberry, garlic, ginger, etc. in vivo in massive quantities when under stress. Virtually every animal on the planet biosynthesizes vitamin c in massive doses any time they are stressed, and especially when threatened by an acute viral infection (such as, for example, COVID-19).
(cont.) Humans are one of only a handful of vertebrates who cannot synthesize their own vitamin c; all of those who can't are more prone to infectious disease than other animals, and humans are the sole animal among the entire animal kingdom that simultaneously cannot biosynthesize vitamin c and also does not eat a vitamin c rich diet. Fruit bats and guinea pigs, for example, cannot synthesize vitamin c but do consume vast quantities of vitamin c through specialized plant diets. This means they are infection-resistant compared to humans, but still lack the response mechanism to acute infection that other animals possess once the infection does take hold. After all, one cannot simply stuff extra fruit in one's stomach: once it is full, it is full. Other vertebrates (which, again, constitutes virtually the entire animal kingdom) will, when suffering an acute viral infection, increase their vitamin c plasma levels by whole orders of magnitude. These levels can't be replicated through diet.
The next question, then is: "Ok, but if this is so good, and works for COVID-19 (or at least could work) why isn't anything being done about it?"
Something is being done, but Western media isn't reporting on it. First, I want to preface this by saying that the concept of high-dose vitamin c being used to cure acute (and chronic) disease is an entirely Western concept in its origination. All of the doctors who have studied and promoted it are unambiguously from the West (see attached image). However, their work and results have been marginalized, results that are peer-reviewed and numerous in both breadth and depth. I say that to quell any concerns that this is "Chinese medicine" or "Chinese propaganda." It has merely been ignored.
(cont.) With the Coronavirus, however, China began looking at any possible treatment that showed promise. This disaster is much further alone over there than it is in the West (for now). And so they came across high-dose vitamin c; specifically, intravenous vitamin c to cure the acute viral infection that is COVID-19. Since that time, the Shanghai Medical Association has released their recommended treatment protocol for COVID-19, which - astonishingly - centers on the use of high-dose vitamin c. See: mp.weixin.qq.com/s/bF2YhJKiOfe1yimBc4XwOA This is the first time high-dose intravenous vitamin c has ever been endorsed for an acute infection by a government body, anywhere. Not only that, but other hospitals across China have tried similar treatments with intravenous vitamin c, and achieved shocking results: 2yuan.xjtu.edu.cn/Html/News/Articles/21774.html
Here is a video of a South Korean YouTuber chronicling the spread of this same information from China to South Korea; this is very fascinating to watch if you have time: youtube.com/watch?v=t2CJmmvpI4w&feature=youtu.be
Currently, there are at least three official studies that explicitly test high-dose intravenous vitamin c on COVID-19 patients, here is just one: clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533 However it's worth noting that the government of Shanghai mandated the use of high-dose vitamin c because of preliminary results; that is how compelled they were by the results they are already seeing. Here is Dr. Richard Cheng (PhD, MD) in Shanghai verifying that there are at least three high-dose intravenous vitamin c trials going on in China right now (note that Dr. Cheng is an American; he served in the US Army Medical Corp for many years and has had his own practice in Columbia, VA for decades, but became stuck in China after traveling there to visit his parents for the Chinese New Year): youtube.com/watch?v=VMDX0RSDp1k
Although only an anecdote, here is the same Dr. Cheng discussing a recent case of a critically ill patient in Wuhan who received high-dose intravenous vitamin c: youtube.com/watch?v=6-elCYFhqJs
And here is Dr. Cheng confirming that intravenous vitamin c studies in China are having exceptionally promising preliminary results: youtube.com/watch?v=uwbCCm8Y8G8 (skip to 1:20) Dr. Cheng has a handful of other short videos on the matter, interested viewers would be well advised to watch all of them.
The next question is: "What do I do with this information? What should I buy (if anything)?" First, you should spread this information to friends and family as much as is possible. As for what to do for yourself, I recommend watching the following video. It is the single best summary of Vitamin C, how it works and how to self-administer it in clinical doses that I have ever found: youtube.com/watch?v=JXKuWcB0cI0
If looking for more articles, including historical studies from the pioneers of this research I highly recommend the following website, not for its own articles per se (although they are good) but for the links and references to other scholarly peer-reviewed articles and studies: orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml Even if one doubts the orthmolecular.org site, the scholarly papers cited therein are fully credible.
(cont.) Lastly, if you don't have the time or patience to watch the video immediately above, then my recommendation is to begin taking 3 grams per day (spread out as much as possible) of either ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate (it doesn’t matter which; the cheaper the source the better, bulk powder is usually cheapest). At the same time, stockpile about 60 grams of liposomal vitamin c (LivOn labs brand only, other brands are often NOT real liposomes and LivOn owns an important process patent, OR you could make your own, although it's not particularly easy, see qualityliposomalc.com/ for instructions). If you become sick and suspect that it is COVID-19, begin taking 6 grams of liposomal vitamin c per day, spread out as much as possible, and at the same time, increase your ascorbic acid (or sodium ascorbate) intake to bowel tolerance (that is the point at which you become gassy and experience loose stool).
Best of luck anons. I'm posting this for your benefit. I hope you'll bump, investigate, take action, and stay healthy.
BUMP I've been taking pic related and been on a low sugar diet for four years, I haven't been sick in all that time. Oh and FYI CAUTION: Ingesting more than 2,000 mg of vitamin C per day may lead to gastrointestinal upset, including symptoms like diarrhea and nausea.
Gonna pop me another lemon off the tree right now. Big fucking Meyer lemon tree, ripens at end of November, still has fruit on it (even after I've been giving dozens away). Juicy as fuck, can peel and eat 'em like an orange.
Connor Jackson
Is this LivOn labs liposomal vitamin C strictly a US brand? Do you know of any acceptable equivalents available in europe?
Nicholas Adams
>Intravenous Vitamin C (IVC) dramatically reduced mortality rates among patients
I’m not going inject myself with a needle nigga fuck that shit
Jace Diaz
Doesn't prevent it, retard
John Long
What about ADE? Wouldn't stimulating the immune system be counterproductive if it turns out it can hijack antibodies?
Ian Reed
I like mine in pineapple juice.
Joseph Miller
you're worse than that puerto rican retard that shills for emergen c
Kevin Long
Overdose of Vitamin C does something more than intestinal upset: it kills your liver.
Cooper Davis
Bump. I take at least 2 grams of vitamin C a day. Sipping some emergen-c right now
Nicholas Flores
I have 50 bottles of true liposomal C stacked each 50g. Costed like 1500 euro but I am ready.
Jordan Ramirez
So this isn't OP's first thread today, huh.
Gabriel Perry
Half of the cans I've purchased were tomato specifically to keep my vit C levels up.
Carson Robinson
If it was actually effective, your doctor would be willing to inject you with the needle.
It looks like he posted yesterday night or so, and modified the post to clarify the study based on Yas Forumsacks not being able to understand what made it significant. Reading through the old thread some got it and some didn't. As far as I can tell that was the first posting. I have to say this is a goldmine of information though, OP linked everything you need to verify.
David Martin
Mama mia, that's a spicey take! How's that quarantine working for you?
Xavier Bell
Are you fucking autistic? > Findings In this randomized clinical trial that included 167 patients in the intensive care unit, intravenous infusion of high-dose vitamin C vs placebo for 96 hours resulted in no significant differences in the modified Sequential Organ Failure Assessment score at 96 hours, or in levels of C-reactive protein and thrombomodulin at 168 hours. > Meaning: Among patients with sepsis and ARDS, high-dose vitamin C infusion compared with placebo did not significantly reduce organ failure scores at 96 hours or improve biomarker levels at 168 hours.
Fuck off
Liam Green
...30% mortality-rate is fucking insane. If that were the case, we're looking at 99 Million deaths in the US.
Camden King
Vitamine supplements r 4 people who dont eat properly
Don't do this. Make sure your intake is Vitamin C alone. Some vitamins and minerals are toxic at relatively low doses (potassium). Please do adequate research. Even though vit c is safe, you can still harm yourself.
Luis Cook
>If you merely skim the abstract in the JAMA link, you may be misled into believing that the study found nothing of significance. This is because mortality, ICU days, ventilator-free days and so forth were secondary outcomes not expected to result in significant reductions. Primary outcomes were organ assessment and c-reactive protein scores, which were expected to show significance even if secondary outcomes did not. As a result, the abstract merely concludes the primary outcome results; if you read the full findings, the secondary outcomes are astonishing. Incredibly, organ assessment and c-reactive protein scores were not at all predictive of patient results.
>The attached chart from the study, for example, shows the mortality rates of patients in both groups. The orange shading is the period during which the treatment group received IVC. Note that the control group was vastly more likely to die than the treatment group as long as the treatment group was receiving IVC; when vitamin c was discontinued, both groups’ mortality rates then began tracking together almost perfectly, while maintaining the mortality difference established during IVC treatment.
I feel sorry for OP, Yas Forums is truly too dumb for threads like this.
Julian Ortiz
where do i buy this shit
Jayden Cooper
ah, of course. that whole trailer load of vitamin C that china is shipping out has it all wrong. they should just tell the people of hubei to simply eat a healthy balanced diet instead.
Jaxson Martin
Actually I took about 12g in 2 day because of a mild tracheitis. Powder is easier to overspill. My limit is 1.6g per hour or I will shit myself.
The key is taking it the faster you can every hour until you feel your gum full of it.
Landon Ortiz
kek t.formerly Hank's
Isaac Nguyen
Not exclusively. There's a litany of medical problems that can cause malabsorption of nutrients.
Andrew Thomas
Based and Linus Pauling pilled
Adrian Miller
go to any store basically. walmart, kroger, walgreens, cvs, etc. theyll have a large selection of vitamins. i already take a multi vitamin anyway since i hate my veggies.
Asher Moore
Okay this is a valuable thread.
Zachary Garcia
Good thing I have 120 capsules of 500mg vit C. But I'll have to buy like 3 or 4 times more. It's not IV vit c but better than nothing.
Isaac Stewart
Dangerous assumption to make that this study that was performed on patients with SARS would produce similar results with the novel virus that's spreading in the present given just how different they seem to be. Recommend waiting for studies on this virus to come out. This also doesn't solve the problem of the virus infecting the nervous tissue and causing meningitis even if it does work.
Julian Turner
bro, Altrient C is the euro LivOn product.
Jose Bailey
>since i hate my veggies. That's a funny way of saying "I suck at cooking".
retards. C helps but not that much, it isn't some miracle drug
Camden Martinez
Did you read the JAMA article you idiot?
"did not significantly improve organ dysfunction scores or alter markers of inflammation and vascular injury."
Go to www.covidauthority.com for real info retard.
Charles Ross
Also, reminder that smoking affects your bodies ability to absorb vitamin C. So even if you eat 6 oranges a day, if you're a smoker it isn't benefitting you as much as it could.
Samuel Fisher
Get acerola cherry vitamine C only, not that ascorbic acid bullshit
Adam Mitchell
I've been using vitamin c for decades to supreme cold and strengthen my immune system.
The majority of ‘vitamin C’ that is peddled out there isn’t even real vitamin C. Ascorbic acid is made out of petroleum byproducts and is allowed to be peddled through FDA loopholes set in stone decades ago.
Jordan Allen
>suppress
Gabriel Kelly
>However,these findings were based onanalyses that did not account for multiple comparisons andtherefore must be considered exploratory. It is possible thatthese observations represent the effects of vitamin C onunderlying sepsis-induced biological abnormalities that arenot reflected in the biomarker analysis, a hypothesis sup-ported by 3 findings: early deaths in the placebo group, theproportion of patients in the vitamin C–infused cohort wholeft the ICU before 168 hours, and the survival curve parallelto that of placebo after cessation of vitamin C infusion.
Evan Miller
>Overdose of Vitamin C does something more than intestinal upset: it kills your liver.
I'd rather lose a liver than die of corona thanks.
Lincoln Wood
Keep reading dude. The study you quoted builds on a previous study, ref #15, where they did a similar treatment on less progressed disease. >Conclusions: Intravenous ascorbic acid infusion was safe and well tolerated in this study and may positively impact the extent of multiple organ failure and biomarkers of inflammation and endothelial injury.
Going back to OP's paper, they state in the conclusions that the main reason positive effect wasn't observed was due to advanced disease progression. >Preclinical research in early sepsis revealed that vitamin C prevented sepsis-induced cytokine surges that activate and sequester neutrophils in lung, thus damaging alveolar capillaries. >Vitamin C increased alveolar fluid clearance by preventing activated neutrophil accumulation in alveolar spaces, limiting alveolar epithelial ater-channel damage, and promoting their increased expression. >In addition, vitamin C prevented neutrophil extracellular trap formation, a biological event in activated neutrophils that promotes vascular injury.
Checked, satan.
Jaxon Kelly
Maybe OP should write nicer sentences. My IQ is officially >=135 and I got really bored reading the OP.
Worth a shot, though, because it's very unlikely that vitamin C will hurt you
Isaac Johnson
I bought 250ml from ActiNovo. No idea if they're any good, I am entirely new to this. Other than that, I bought 2kg of pure ascorbic acid powder- but I have no way of getting it into my blood stream intravenously. What do I actually do to properly get my body to absorb it? I don't have the money to spend on any more than one LivOn package of liposomal Vitamin C
Landon Cox
That quote directly supports OP's points you illiterate retard.
Zachary Cooper
drink orange juice, frens
Jack Butler
Never used it. Bought a 1000mg bottle and had 4 or 5. Within the hour I had explosive diahrea.
Angel Walker
>tfw shit ton of various citrus trees all over Finally a benefit to living in Orange county
Henry Ward
Recently I've been going through 1 carton of tropicana a day. I supplement that with 2 grapefruits after my main meal. I take 500mg of vitamin C a day but it did nothing for me without the grapefruit and orange juice.
Unless you're juicing the oranges yourself, you're better off just eating the oranges instead. The garbage they call orange-juice isn't worth your money.
Dominic Collins
you can make your own crude liposomal vitamin c with the powder + sunflower lecithin
Angel Phillips
>6 grams of liposomal vitamin c per day It cost £40 a gram here, that's £240 a day
Leo Fisher
Bump
Robert Cox
>had 4 or 5 You should only drink 1 daily, retard.
How many livers do you think you have, you stupid fucking leaf?
Adam Lewis
eat tomatoes, oranges and other vitamin-c rich stuff, then. you might have to eat three/four of each per day to actually make a difference, but its better then dying
Noah Smith
There's nothing dangerous about it. You can't overdose on vitamin C.
Easton Baker
OK heres my bump
Michael Perez
>Humans are one of only a handful of vertebrates who cannot synthesize their own vitamin c Because we have uric acid and glutathione
Josiah Green
Peppers are another great source.
Landon Hernandez
i have been doing an emergen-c packet every morning for more than 5 years. sometimes one later in the day if im not feeling well
how fucked am i?
Jaxson Cox
That's close to the overdose amount. You might want to tone it down a little.
Alexander Johnson
Ive been on this shit all my life, I get my vit c mostly from parsley not fruit but yeah good bread user
vitamine C zync vitamine D that s all you need to survive this shit chinkoid virus
Joseph Miller
How hard is it, and will it be better than what ActiNovo has? Or rather, is the effect comparable to LivOn's liposomal Vitamin C?
Chase Stewart
Speaking of Zinc, how much of it should you ideally get? The daily recommended for C is like 100mg, which I know is at 10 to 100 times less than I should be taking. What about Zinc?
Ryder Rivera
on vit c + vit d + zinc daily haven't been sick in a few years
Dylan Peterson
all those are good, garlic especially is amazing
Xavier Hernandez
Based Altrient LivOn recommending "10 packs a day or more" when you're sick.
>Kakadu plums have the highest vitamin C content of any fruit in the world, measuring up to 100 times the vitamin C of oranges. Northern Australia frens, eat kakadu plums to save yourselves. All I have are rosehips and pine needles.
