What Really Cost The Germans to Lose in Russia?

Not enough oil.

Overconfidence happened. A more flexible economy that didn't fail to attract foreign support won.

>raped the russians in ww1
Not at all, before commies it was like 60% to 40%. Front was stable and tsarists were doing ok. Only after february and commies propaganda front suffered. I'm sure that without commies, russia-england-france could make it till the end much faster.
Stalin wanted to some sort of peace treaty and negotiations through whole 41 and was panicking. He proposed tons of land to hitler secretly but was denied. As far as I remember. He was amazingly miserable first month of war.

Overall - Russia was too big and hard to conquer and had significant amount of war plants that was evacuated and sustained through war. And a lot of human resourses. Tons of them. And, honestly, in the beggining of ww2 german tanks were trash, soviets solo were better, but germans had nice crews and nice tactics, whenever soviets one's weren't integrated in strategy at all.

It was supposed to be a blitzkrieg, and they weren't trying to conquer the whole of Russia

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The real answer is logistics. The soviets were saved by the mud that slowed the German advance. Germany couldn't keep supplying the front and had to slow down. They were 10 miles from Moscow Kremlin against conscripts.
German engineers were too proud to make cheap easy to produce armored vehicles. For every tiger the Russians would make 20 t34s. Sure one tiger could kill 30 but that's not the average.
The winter didn't save them. That's a German myth to cope with losing.

it was still a dumb plan, and the logisticians told them as much. they were so overstretched by the time they reached moscow they should have realized it was over then and there

It's applicable, whole red army was wiped in months and retreated like hell, nazis marched through Russia on same speed as before in Europe, but I guess they found there limit.

>They were 10 miles from Moscow Kremlin against conscripts.
>Reaching City = taking it

they were excellently prepared.. for the first few hundred miles. then it all went to shit.

>Napoleon even occupied Moscow
So? It was not capital in 1812

>Ironically both Hitler and Napoleon started their Russian attack on the same date.
Almost, but not the same. 22st and 24st. There is a logistical reason for invading Russia in summer.

>we will win in months
*no*
>well fug :---DDDD

No Blitzkrieg when you are stuck in one of the hardest winters in a long time whitout propper equipment. That buyed the russians valuable time to build up their red army shenanigans.

Logistics, Geography, and Personnel Management skills.

>It was totally winter guys
Cope

The thing is the g*rmans are real subhumans

I never said they took it. What I meant is they were extremely close to winning the war.

what were the british supposed to do?

>oh yes hitler lets have peace and no blockade so you can continue your late as fuck empire building so that in 50 years you are more powerful than us and be the complete ruler of Europe!

Two things in a nutshell

1. German overconfidence in logistical issues
2. Axis waste of resources and involvement in other theatres (Didn't have to declare war on US, Africa campaign failure, battle of Britain failure, Hitlers refusal to pardon Franco Spain's debt, Italian unpreparedness in mediterranian battles etc etc)

winter played a part but its role is definitely exaggerated. if the germans didn't get stopped by that it would have just been the next thing.

Geography, climate, population, allies the Red Army could go through like they were the girl scouts, and Bomber fucking Harris visiting the homeland every night.

Ffs he is generally rights. Stop being a bastard

What i am saying is that they had not just stopped because muh winter and mud. They were stopped by defending force. which layed defense in depth for kilometers, and was willing to fight for the city to the last. It is just very basic to say that taking Moscow = winning, but you have to take it first, right? It was not just a free ride for Germans where they had to stop because they stuck in mud, there was actual fighting there, and it is not like Germans had not failed to take city they were fighting for before - look at Leningrad, they had to Siege that because they could not just take it. In Moscow they would have faced even fiercer resistance.

>hey what happened? Why did it fail? Instead of reading some articles I'm gonna ask bunch of retards on meme board.

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Worth a shot.

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It also played a part in Soviet counteroffensive during battle for Moscow - snows slowed down advance of the troops. Soviet troops.

Oil, and american lend lease. The germans got bogged down in Stalingrad for too long and ran out of gas for their southern push. they also wasted too many men in Leningrad, though there were real strategic reasons to be there. even if they hadn't seized the holding tanks of gasoline and oil around the Caucuses, for instance if the soviets had destroyed them lest they be captured, the war probably would have gone on for years longer because neither side would have had the fuel for Kursk.

logistics. the battle of Britain that cost them a 1,000 planes for little to no gain. believing their enigma code was unbreakable. dozens of more reasons I'm sure.

production wasn't really their problem though, by the end of the war it was fuel, food, and manpower.

Lend Lease is not the reason why germans lost, however it is a major reason why soviets won.

They practically took stalingrad. If the flanks had held off the counterattacks it would have been a victory. I believe they could have won Moscow but don't think they could ever win the war. The cost was too high and Russia wasn't giving up.
It was unwinnable from the start.

>The answer is in your photo OP. The ashkeNAZI's wore dress clothes to the coldest fight on earth. The Russians wore sheepskin and real winter gear. Only the stupidest of the stupid idolize the failed NAZIonist movement of the last century. Their only supporters live on in i$rael.

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The truth is the russians weren't the mongs the germans thought they were, they just caught them with their pants down coming from a very harsh purge that killed or imprisoned some of the very best military thinkers in the soviet union, plus they were in a process of reorganization of their units but they have the superb KV-1 and T-34 ready albeit in small numbers, both tanks with better armor and better cross-country performance than germans had and by mid-war the soviets were literally schooling the germans on true 'blitzkrieg' (deep operations they called them) moving laterally forces fast as fuck and somehow with complete surprise so as to amass enough at some points to force a breakthrough (muh russian hordes) they undobtedly suffered from this after the war and you can see in their late unit organization how divisions were only like 2000-4000 men (out of an authorized 12,000-14,000)

So the germans bit more than they could chew. They were NEVER going to win in Russia.

Germans are shit at fighting. Britain beat them in WW1 and WW2. Russians beat them because of British military aid.

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>cost

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It's pretty much basic knowledge that Germany could not stand to wage war on two fronts simultaneously as they tried to do.
Hitler was a very good politician but one of the worst generals ever.

they declared on the US so they could target their convoys unrestricted. He thought he had more time before they ended up facing the US directly but when they invaded north africa in 1943 he was shocked.

also this.

based

youtu.be/oET1WaG5sFk

In Hitler's own words.

The Wehrmacht was a meat grinder, but the Red Army kept stuffing fresh meat into it until the meat grinder broke.

German tanks were better. But Russia was more practical. There's no need for fancy engines when the tank won't last a year on the battlefield.

Holy shit bros.. What if, we made the 4th reich in the US. Who could stop us?

This recording is awkward because you can tell Mannerheim knows the reality of the situation but still has to nod and go along with Hitler's cope.

Not really. The British were just watching the show and heckling. Not saying the heckling didn't help a little, but let's be honest here.

Ultimately what causes defeat was the fact that Hitler was a Rothschild and that he didn’t want to win. So as he was about to capture the oil fields that go from Grozny to Baku, he suddenly changes his mind and switches direction to Stalingrad. There he leaves a massive army inside the city with the flanks completely unprotected. The Russians had no problem surrounding the army, and Hitler forbade them from withdrawing and joining the remaining Germans forces.

Russians had amassed an absurd force on the borders, and Hortler became aware of it. This force was extreme overkill if the only goal was conquering Germany and territory in between - it was a force for conquering Europe. Make no mistake: what he did he did out of desperation on behalf of his own people, which was always his way; but what he accomplished was deciminating enough of that force that Russia could not use it to try to take the continent.

Fun fact, since you mention the Blitzkrieg. The Russians, not the Germans, invented Blitzkrieg, and first imployed it in the Russian-Japanese war of 1904-1905.

Russia also had tanks specifically designed to cross bodies of water, which Uncle Adolf did not. The UK would've been totally fucked, as would have all of Europe, at least until Americans developed the bomb - hypothetically, assuming these vast changes do not affect its development.

They lost because it was impossible to win. They attacked because they had no other choice. And it's just one of the many ways Hitler saved Europe, until the slow creep of Marxism finally destroyed it from within, as he always predicted it would.

These things are not disputed and have been discussed in military history books already.

Barbarossa at its best was literally a failure to accomplish any of its defined strategic objectives.

Well, after the loose of Stalingrad german troops where retreating and tryed to rebuild a new frontline. There where some huge clashes, in Minsk for excample where the germans won and actualy got some counter counter momentum. But then like half of the troops where send to the westfront because there was the real reason the ivans won that shitfest. Fucking mutts and their stupidity. 2 front war wasnt winable.

Well, shit happens.

No one. No one has the physical ability to land a single soldier on either coast of the US.

Based bong defending his homeland and heritage on 4chins

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But if Russia had taken Europe, and it later still lost the economic competition with America, wouldn't the entirety of Europe be better of culturally, like the former Warsaw pact?
Big think moment right there.

Lend lease and oil started to go properly in end 42-45 honestly. In 41-42 there were basicly lack of ways to deliver it. It was either Iran either norhern path that was bombed by nazis tirpitz and air 24/7.
Nothern convoys were nice but could carry really small relative amount. Iranian pathway was a fully retarded in terms of length from UK to Iran.
But in 43-45 we fought on your airplanes and cars a lot, thx.

No need to declare war on USA. Japan fucked up. It's better to deal with well supplied brits and Russians than well supplied UK, Russia and a massive American army.
Japan went full retard, Hitler should have focused more on uboats. His allies were literally useless.

I only say lend lease for three reasons, which are quality gasoline, radios, and logistics trucks. the tanks and guns and aircraft certainly helped, but it was the little things that the Soviets struggled with in the beginning, IE the only factory in the entire soviet union that produced vacuum tubes was destroyed almost immediately, which meant the soviets couldn't manufacture new radios. Had the soviet communication lines been even a bit farther stretched there is a good chance that the entire soviet front would have just dissolved.

Overconfidence. The Germans were emboldened by their quick defeat of France and they believed that it would be a very easy victory. The Soviets, on the other hand took it very seriously and treated it as a 'total war' from day one of the german invasion. They mobilised millions of men and women immediately - both for army and industrial purposes. In germany Hitler was still wasting millions of Reichsmarks on vanity projects like autobahn and volkswagen as late as august 1941 when his panzer divisions were being slaughtered on the eastern front. Germans totally neglected armaments production. Between 1940 and 1941 the soviets doubled their armament production and the americans tripled it. The germans were so confident that they actually reduced it and shifted their industrial capacity towards U-boats and aircraft. In a long, protracted war of attrition the one with more men, more artillery and more tanks is the one who wins. Quality and professionalism of individual soldiers doesn't matter much in a meatgrinder like the Eastern front.

Fuck off Nazi retard
Out economy and weaponry was hot garbage compared to Russia

1) Hitler was a dumbass who kept changing the targets of strategic thrusts. In 1941 instead of being single kinded toward Moscow he insisted in a broad front strategy, etc. On the Soviet side, Stalin deferred to his generals quite often, who had no problem abandoning hopeless objectives and making Germans bleed out to capture important or secondary ones. Soviet Generals viewed their men as 100% expendable.

2) The Soviets made cheaper, simpler, and occasionally better weapons they could produce en masse to smother Germany's autistic focus on over-engineered pieces of shit because they "looked cool". As a result the Soviets were able to pump out dozens of systems for every gas guzzling panther and tiger the Germans shit out. Also Hitler's general ignorance of the air force after the failure of the Blitz and his insistence on letting a literal obese heroin addict run the branch resulted in an inept air force that couldn't challenge the Soviets in a war that was won by air power.

3) The Americans shipped millions of tons of aid to the Soviets, most importantly fuel food and logistic trucks. Without that the Soviet army would've been perpetually starving and using horse drawn wagons almost exclusively for logistics.

4) Wars that resulted in occupation were actually a thing of the past before the 20th century but Hitler who was stuck in 1808 thought all it took to control a country was parking an armored division in its capital. The Germans had no plan or tactics to deal with insurgencies and partisan movements. Even if they "won", by 1948 Germany would've been hit by a rash of resistance movements that would've bled out the army, as well as having to deal with decolonization in places like Algeria and Vietnam since the French couldn't. Additionally Germany had no peace time economic plans, so by 1955 it would've plummeted into recession and depression.

TLDR Hitler lost because he never could have won.

-Make tanks run on Gasoline instead of diesel
-Pack more mittens and scarves.
-Tell Japan to go fuck themselves after pearl harbor, putting US in awkward position of declaring war on Germany for no reason. (it's not like the Japanese alliance benefited Germany in any way)
-Or demand the dirty Nips attack the soviets instead

Russia put troops on the border because the Germans did too, the Russians weren't stupid

I meant lend lease helping y'all and a lack of Oil supplies crippling the germans. had the panzer divisions around Stalingrad not been running low on fuel it is very unlikely the counter offensive would have been so succesful. Franz Halder getting fired didn't help either, because he wanted to consolidate their defense to break the counter attack.

>Nips attack the commies
Commies gave them a good beating. Attacking them was the last thing they can pull off.

Because while German soldiers trudged through mud and snow in Russia, America and Britain were giving the Soviets a significant part of their equipment and supplies practically for free while simultaneously sinking German ships and bombing German cities. Howmany tanks, guns and bombers could the Germans have built for the Eastern front if they didn't have to build subs and fighters to go after the US and UK? And how well would their production have been if they weren't blockaded from outside resources and fsctories that weren't bombed?

Germany would probably have beat the Soviets on on one and MAYBE beat the UK and USA at once, but all three together had the combined GDP of most of the planet at their disposal.

As oppossed to:
>lets completely annihilate each other so my retarded american son and his jewish overlords will in 50 years be more powerful than everyone in the world (70+ years to end of cold war I guess) and both of us get filled with paki/turkroach rapists.

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Hitler thought he would have the war won before the winter, and he was nearly right. Maybe, they should have gone for Moscow a lot sooner than they did.

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Hitler didn want to win. He refused to listen to his generals diverted his tank force called the attack multiples weeks before and left his soldier to dies for no reason. ah He said it was to teach the germans a lesson

WW2, huh?

Guy you wanna listen to is named Victor Davis Hanson. Type his name and "ww2" into youtube.

the General staff aimed For Moskau and Hitler was in favor of talking Southern regions of Ucraine with its oil and Farmlands.

Hitler was right .

there Are alot of other factors Like the extreme Cold Winter and stretched Out supply Lines, but the Main cause is the Same as why the 1918 spring offensive collapsed: instead of going For a Main target with a concentrated thrust they Split their forces and weakend themselve.

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Moskau was a pointless target, see